The Woke Mind Virus

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, User said:

1. The entire argument is going to be subjective here regarding ones stance on putting the PRIDE flag into a classroom or not... that is my point. Leave the politics out of the classroom. Stop pushing your agenda onto kids. 

2. I have little interest in writing a research paper here on all schools in the country and how many introduced pride flags, when they did so...

3. I will leave it at my anecdotal experience in answering the question as to why this is more recent... because it is more recent that the LGBTQ stuff has been going crazy. You go back 10 years ago and we did not spend over half the year celebrating days, weeks, months out of the year for Transgender awareness day, Gay Pride Month, my dogs cousins brothers owner coming out of the closet day.... to include we must have teachers in the classroom dressed in rainbows like they came off the street with PRIDE flags all over their classrooms. 

That was not a norm 10 years ago like it is today. 
 

1. Well, the politics should happen outside the classroom.  Presumably they won't be debating in the classroom.  Politics is a necessary part of forming education policy of course.
2. Fair enough.  Is your impression that this controversy about pride flags in the classroom is recent though ?
3. Ah ok you answered #2.  

I would say that our modes of discussion are more open today, which is why we hear dissenting voices, such as yours.  In your defence, you are articulating your objection as is your right and some people are shocked because we don't get a water-down corporatized version of the days events anymore.  In other words, the lens of our perspective is clearer now.  

It will take awhile to get used to that.  And that will mean people will need to get used to things that they don't like.  Not referring to you here, but actually everyone especially liberals.

[Hodad]

37 minutes ago, User said:

No, you did not just say real. You mocked me by saying I would leave them to a porn star as if I did not support anything at all. What you did was dishonest. 

I did mock you, because you're position is terribly naive. But it's also a fact that if you close off competing counterprogramming you will indeed leave their practical sex education to porn stars. As before, a pamphlet from the 50s isn't going to compete against porn.

Quote

*Some kids fall prey to online porn. Do you support legislation pushed by Republicans in various right leaning states to regulate online porn more to require age verification to help prevent kids from accessing it? Any other measures?

Your position here is that they are going to see this in porn... so we should teach them how to do it in the classroom too?

I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. The point is not to teach kids how to recreate porn, but how to have healthy relationships to sex, sexuality and one another. If you don't provide, through whatever mechanisms, competing models of healthy sexual behavior then all they are left with are harmful models. 

Prudish abstraction may make you feel more comfortable, but it's not conducive to the comfort of a 17 year old girl with a prolapsed anus because she and her first boyfriend have seen 47 hours of lube-free ass porn. But at least she had a pamphlet!

Quote

 

And yes, you are here trying to brow-beat with the Pride flag, you are the one proving that is exactly your intent with your intolerant of the intolerant rhetoric and notions that having an honest, scientific, and factual position about men being men and women being women... 

Hey, the Pro-Life flag and Christian flags do no harm to anyone either. Round and round we go... maybe we should keep your political crap out of the classroom. 

Men can be men and women can be women, but you don't have any business deciding for people who gets to be what. They'll be fine on their own, thanks. 

And, again, these are bad analogies. The pro-life flag and the Christian flag (neither of which I've ever seen anywhere, so take that as a clue) are flags of superiority. Christianity asserts that it is the one true religion, so what does putting that flag in a classroom say to the muslims and Jews in the class? The pro-life (anti-choice) flag says that women should not have the right to choose whether to carry a fetus within them. What does that say to women and girls who cherish that right? Both of these flags send a signal of greater than and less than. 

The pride flag sends no such signal. it just says "I'm okay too!" And, again, if you can't tolerate people accepting themselves and being proud of themselves, your problem isn't with a flag.

Edited April 30, 2024 by Hodad

[Deluge]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That said, time only goes one way

That's right. And right now, time is moving through divisiveness.

So you have to ask yourself, Mike, do I choose a side, or do I just stand here, with my thumb up my ass, and watch the destruction? 

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Deluge said:

1. That's right. And right now, time is moving through divisiveness.

2. So you have to ask yourself, Mike, do I choose a side, or do I just stand here, with my thumb up my ass, and watch the destruction? 

1. Absolutely true.
2. I empathize with your view of my approach here.  And many others have tagged me as a face-sitter... but given the continuous waterfall of so-called catastrophes over the past 20 years can you find a little understanding for someone getting jaded about controversy ?  I'm actually beyond tired and bored with this... I'm energized to point out to people that they are in a whirlpool of doom that is constructed by our public engagement model.  And that is why I'm on here constantly pointing out as a reverse-chicken-little... that the sky is not falling.

---

I start the clock here in the middle of Reagan's first term: Crossfire comes to CNN in 1982 and inaugurates politics as pure entertainment..  When Ted Turner inaugurated CNN most of us asked "There's not enough news to show it for 24 hours a day".  

And then came... let's see...
Iran Contra
Iraq War I
Contract with America
Lewinski
9/11
Iraq War II
Financial Crisis 2008
Trump
Covid
Climate Change
Culture War
... yadda yadda yadda ... constant drum beat from the cradle of western democracy as entertainment 

Books: Amusing Ourselves to Death, Neil Postman.  Understanding Media, Marshall McLuhan, Life The Movie, Neil Gabler, The Paranoid Style in American Politics" Richard Hofstadter

----

So I'm going to guess that when I see the mushroom cloud, I'm going to start to get upset.

[Hodad]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Absolutely true.
2. I empathize with your view of my approach here.  And many others have tagged me as a face-sitter... but given the continuous waterfall of so-called catastrophes over the past 20 years can you find a little understanding for someone getting jaded about controversy ?  I'm actually beyond tired and bored with this... I'm energized to point out to people that they are in a whirlpool of doom that is constructed by our public engagement model.  And that is why I'm on here constantly pointing out as a reverse-chicken-little... that the sky is not falling.

---

I start the clock here in the middle of Reagan's first term: Crossfire comes to CNN in 1982 and inaugurates politics as pure entertainment..  When Ted Turner inaugurated CNN most of us asked "There's not enough news to show it for 24 hours a day".  

And then came... let's see...
Iran Contra
Iraq War I
Contract with America
Lewinski
9/11
Iraq War II
Financial Crisis 2008
Trump
Covid
Climate Change
Culture War
... yadda yadda yadda ... constant drum beat from the cradle of western democracy as entertainment 

Books: Amusing Ourselves to Death, Neil Postman.  Understanding Media, Marshall McLuhan, Life The Movie, Neil Gabler, The Paranoid Style in American Politics" Richard Hofstadter

----

So I'm going to guess that when I see the mushroom cloud, I'm going to start to get upset.

^^ I like Billy Joel's version better. 😁

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, Hodad said:

^^ I like Billy Joel's version better. 😁

I'm a fan of the Piano Man for sure, but a young person pointed out that a group called REM did it earlier with a song called "The End of The World as We Know It" 

I remember hearing this, though, on the car radio in the 70s... which predates all of it...
 

 

[impartialobserver]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well... let's ask why this wasn't an issue in the 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s... or ... when / why did it become an issue ?  

 

society changed.. that's why. Change does not denote progress/decay. The Internet, greater economic fortunes, population becoming more urban, and automation have changed the social fabric.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

society changed.. that's why. Change does not denote progress/decay. The Internet, greater economic fortunes, population becoming more urban, and automation have changed the social fabric.

Since 2010?  I'm pretty sure we had all those things in 2010 didn't we?

[impartialobserver]

22 hours ago, Deluge said:

I can't stand rap/hip-hop, either, so I also ignore it.

I can't stand politically charged rewrites but in this case I am going to close my wallet, spread the word, and pray for its failure. I am doing this because political activists have twisted beloved stories into political piles of shit and people like me are not going to put up with it.

People like you not only put up with it, but in many cases actually enjoy it. 

Do you see the difference? 

I "put up with it" because I respect the first amendment. I allow for all forms of expression and let society choose what is popular or successful. As for my own preferences in music, movies, books.. generally steer away from overtly political stuff. For example.. I am probably the biggest music fan that you will ever encounter. My top 5 are 1. The Cure (completely apolitical) 2. Pearl Jam (mildly political) 3. Soundgarden (100% apolitical) 4. Radiohead (again, completely apolitical) and 5. Rancid (mostly apolitical)

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

society changed.. that's why. Change does not denote progress/decay. The Internet, greater economic fortunes, population becoming more urban, and automation have changed the social fabric.

Well, there are things about this reason I agree with and disagree with.

I'm referring to the fall back, and the reason I would attribute it to - as I have said - is technology, ie. the foundation of the public sphere.  Top-down morality programmed from NY and LA in the 1950-2016 period passed into history...

It's the reverse of FDR's "Fireside Chats" and the Hollywood Hayes Code... central morality programming...

[impartialobserver]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Since 2010?  I'm pretty sure we had all those things in 2010 didn't we?

"80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s"...

 

Come on now... 

[impartialobserver]

22 hours ago, Deluge said:

1. EXACTLY. And political activists want the same creative control. They want to take a story, twist it all to shit, and then spew it at the audience. Clearly you enjoy this process, so you don't see where the problem is.

2. Again, no shit.

YOU decide to take it in anyways, and I throw it back in the creators faces. Do you see the difference? 

what is with your types always making assumptions? You assume that I consume these "rewrites"... you would be surprised. I simply am ok with their being created. Who am I tell someone what to watch/read/listen to?

[impartialobserver]

22 hours ago, Deluge said:

So do I. I also take it a few steps further because I'm not passive like you. 

I actually have a problem with political activists hijacking the entertainment industry, and I get the word out.  

There are two ways to express your dislike.. complaining or vote with your wallet. I do the latter. I find it more effective. Money talks. However, your complaining is simply letting the market work in the form of word of mouth. 

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

"80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s"...

 

Come on now... 

I'm pretty sure 2010 was in 2010 tho   And most of the rest of that was around in the 90's.

Societies change but honestly that's pretty sudden.  And it wasn't the 'internet' that was new in recent years

[impartialobserver]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I'm pretty sure 2010 was in 2010 tho   And most of the rest of that was around in the 90's.

Societies change but honestly that's pretty sudden.  And it wasn't the 'internet' that was new in recent years

 

Seriously.. you must be messing with me. The post that I responded to mentioned "80's, 90's".. There was no public internet in the 1980's. 

[Deluge]

46 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I "put up with it" because I respect the first amendment. 

No, you put up with it because you're wired for abuse.

You see, partial, the First Amendment doesn't tell you that you can't tell Disney their product sucks - it tells you that you don't have the authority to force Disney to go away. Now, I am certain there are leftoids that would love to do that with Trump, but that's not how the Constitution works. 

Disney has the right to churn out woke trash, and I have the right to throw that woke trash back in their faces. 

Edited April 30, 2024 by Deluge

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

 

Seriously.. you must be messing with me. The post that I responded to mentioned "80's, 90's".. There was no public internet in the 1980's. 

It said it wasn't a problem in the 80's 90's 00's or 10's

The internet was definitely around for 3 out of 4 of those.

So if he's saying the changes happened subsequent to that, that leaves basically the last four years, or if you choose to read it as 2010 specifically then the last thirteen years. And none of the factors you mentioned as new 'changes' were new factors. Did i misread something?

[impartialobserver]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It said it wasn't a problem in the 80's 90's 00's or 10's

The internet was definitely around for 3 out of 4 of those.

So if he's saying the changes happened subsequent to that, that leaves basically the last four years, or if you choose to read it as 2010 specifically then the last thirteen years. And none of the factors you mentioned as new 'changes' were new factors. Did i misread something?

I was looking at the entire time span given.. "80's, 90's, and such". So when viewed from 1980 to the present day.. yes, they factors I listed have changed our lives. I worked at a factory in the late 90's.. very little automation. Lots of manual labor. While it did close, I have been to its counterpart.. almost fully automated. The old crusty factory workers that I saw everyday are no longer.. at least not in this setting. 

[Deluge]

49 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

what is with your types always making assumptions? You assume that I consume these "rewrites"... you would be surprised. I simply am ok with their being created. Who am I tell someone what to watch/read/listen to?

Have I ordered you to not watch She-Hulk or any other male trashing content? 

Have I said "partial, if I catch you consuming any woke content, I will have you arrested". 

No? Then wtf are you talking about? 

[impartialobserver]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

No, you put up with it because you're wired for abuse.

You see, partial, the First Amendment doesn't tell you that you can't tell Disney their product sucks - it tells you that you don't have the authority to force Disney to go away. Now, I am certain there are leftoids that would love to do that with Trump, but that's not how the Constitution works. 

Disney has the right to churn out woke trash, and I have the right to throw that woke trash back in their faces. 

The first amendment allows for us to complain about anything. It also gives us choice. 

Disney does have the right  to produce the content.. and you have the right to not consume it. I am not sure what needs to be rehashed. In short, I think it bothers you that I am not the duplicate of you. I should be adamant and outspoken like you. You are free to be you but I am not.. seemingly. Some twisted logic. 

Edited April 30, 2024 by impartialobserver

[Deluge]

51 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

There are two ways to express your dislike.. complaining or vote with your wallet. I do the latter. I find it more effective. Money talks. However, your complaining is simply letting the market work in the form of word of mouth. 

I do both. I voice my displeasure AND I close my wallet. I find more satisfaction doing it that way. 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

Have I ordered you to not watch She-Hulk or any other male trashing content? 

Have I said "partial, if I catch you consuming any woke content, I will have you arrested". 

No? Then wtf are you talking about? 

Your posts imply that I watch the woke content and therefore am ok with it. There are a lot of things that I do not like watching/listening  but I am not going to support their being outlawed.. 1. old westerns  2. rap and hiphop  3. political news 4. soap operas. For the umpteenth time..  I have no problem with them being created because I can choose to not consume it. 

[Deluge]

3 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

The first amendment allows for us to complain about anything. It also gives us choice. 

Disney does have to produce the content.. and you have the right to not consume it. I am not sure what needs to be rehashed. In short, I think it bothers you that I am not the duplicate of you. I should be adamant and outspoken like you. You are free to be you but I am not.. seemingly. Some twisted logic. 

It's a two way conversation, partial. 

I voice my displeasure with woke content, and you think that is a 1st Amendment violation. That needs to be discussed. 

If dealing with a differing opinion is too much for you then I don't know what to tell you. 

 

[Deluge]

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Your posts imply that I watch the woke content and therefore am ok with it. 

No, my posts are saying that you're cool with woke content regardless of whether you've seen it or not, and you think it's a 1st Amendment violation to speak out against it. 

Are you saying that is inaccurate? 

[User]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

I did mock you, because you're position is terribly naive. But it's also a fact that if you close off competing counterprogramming you will indeed leave their practical sex education to porn stars. As before, a pamphlet from the 50s isn't going to compete against porn.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. The point is not to teach kids how to recreate porn, but how to have healthy relationships to sex, sexuality and one another. If you don't provide, through whatever mechanisms, competing models of healthy sexual behavior then all they are left with are harmful models. 

Prudish abstraction may make you feel more comfortable, but it's not conducive to the comfort of a 17 year old girl with a prolapsed anus because she and her first boyfriend have seen 47 hours of lube-free ass porn. But at least she had a pamphlet!

Men can be men and women can be women, but you don't have any business deciding for people who gets to be what. They'll be fine on their own, thanks. 

And, again, these are bad analogies. The pro-life flag and the Christian flag (neither of which I've ever seen anywhere, so take that as a clue) are flags of superiority. Christianity asserts that it is the one true religion, so what does putting that flag in a classroom say to the muslims and Jews in the class? The pro-life (anti-choice) flag says that women should not have the right to choose whether to carry a fetus within them. What does that say to women and girls who cherish that right? Both of these flags send a signal of greater than and less than. 

The pride flag sends no such signal. it just says "I'm okay too!" And, again, if you can't tolerate people accepting themselves and being proud of themselves, your problem isn't with a flag.

You continue with this false dilemma that we must choose porn or your SNM bondage classes for kids in K-12. 

You claim to be so concerned with porn, but you ignored my questions:

Do you support legislation pushed by Republicans in various right leaning states to regulate online porn more to require age verification to help prevent kids from accessing it? Any other measures?

Again, you are pushing YOUR values regarding what is a healthy sexual relationship and dismissing mine as prudish. My point here is that neither of us should be pushing our values regarding what is or is not a healthy sexual relationship onto children outside of basics like consent, safety, and consequences. 

You are the one being obtuse and quite frankly, disgustingly rude, with your mocking me about blow jobs while in the next sentence acting like you don't want to teach them about how to engage in (recreate) porn activities while you then flip back to a girl worrying about why her anus hurts because they did not use lube. 

Someone like you needs to be kept as far away from a classroom full of kids as possible. You have no business determining standards for what constitutes healthy sexual relationships or showing them how to do it. Then you wonder why folks think folks that are pushing crap like the PRIDE flag in the classroom have sexual deviant tendencies or there is some kind of sexual thing to it... that Venn diagram is starting to look an awful lot like a circle for your views on putting this smut into classrooms and your support for the PRIDE flag...

No, I can't decide how people feel, but I can certainly point out objective facts. A biological male, who feels like a woman, pretends to look like one, act like one, is not actually one. That doesn't make me intolerant, it makes me a sane rational human being and your conflating that with intolerance is EXACTLY why the PRIDE flag has no place in the classroom, it is you shoving your political ideology onto kids. 

The PRIDE flag is just as much about superiority here to you, you have already admitted as much, as you assert that what it stands for must be accepted or those who do not are the intolerant ones!

I already showed you what the Pro-Life flag stands for and you just fabricate things to oppose it. Nothing about it was superiority related. Where did the link I provided you say: "The pro-life (anti-choice) flag says that women should not have the right to choose whether to carry a fetus within them." It did not. You are just making this up. 

Which again, is exactly my point. You are here pushing your political views and trying to justify them and then dismissing mine. OR we just don't push our politics onto the kids... the classroom is not a soapbox for teachers or staff.