User Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 1 minute ago, Moonbox said: OOPS!? Short memory or something? That is not all I have done. You have seen many of my comments here now. 1 minute ago, Moonbox said: When you're being asked why the law is an unreasonable limit to free speech, not being able to do anything but circle back and tell us about freedom of speech is a pretty goofy answer. Free speech is the starting point, it is on you to defend why this is a reasonable limit. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 Just now, User said: Free speech is the starting point, it is on you to defend why this is a reasonable limit. I already have, so to suggest otherwise is just more of your dishonesty. I've outlined, at least half a dozen times, the justifications and benefits of the law's implementation. Contrast that to the near-absolute lack of any harm this causes to free speech, and your obvious evasion and inability to describe any, and the debate ends there. Feel free to offer something, or anything, if you want anyone to take your seriously. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 18 minutes ago, Moonbox said: I already have, so to suggest otherwise is just more of your dishonesty. I've outlined, at least half a dozen times, the justifications and benefits of the law's implementation. Just as I have countered those each time. 18 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Contrast that to the near-absolute lack of any harm this causes to free speech, and your obvious evasion and inability to describe any, and the debate ends there. Feel free to offer something, or anything, if you want anyone to take your seriously. I already have explained this to you. This is the part of the discussion where, instead of actually debating anything I have said, you play these games. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 2 hours ago, User said: Just as I have countered those each time. You've countered squat, with your feeble attempts being nothing more than juvenile reductionism. The long and storied reality of women being harassed and threatened going to abortion clinics gets, or the occasional bouts of outright violence, are reduced to "hurt feelings". 2 hours ago, User said: I already have explained this to you. This is the part of the discussion where, instead of actually debating anything I have said, you play these games. You've explained nothing. When asked to explain why these incredibly narrow and specific limitations to free speech are unreasonable, your response has consistently been "Because it's about free speech". 🤣👌 When you're ready to offer an actual argument, or even some half-baked reasoning, I'll listen. Until then you're just chasing your tail and making yourself look like a fool. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 Just now, Moonbox said: You've countered squat, with your feeble attempts being nothing more than juvenile reductionism. The long and storied reality of women being harassed and threatened going to abortion clinics gets, or the occasional bouts of outright violence, are reduced to "hurt feelings". A dude standing on a sidewalk praying silently is not a bout of outright violence, and outright violence is no longer speech. So yeah, your argument was nothing more than you don't want someone having hurt feelings. 1 minute ago, Moonbox said: You've explained nothing. When asked to explain why these incredibly narrow and specific limitations to free speech are unreasonable, your response has consistently been "Because it's about free speech". 🤣👌 When you're ready to offer an actual argument, or even some half-baked reasoning, I'll listen. Until then you're just chasing your tail and making yourself look like a fool. I have explained this the entire way here. 1 Quote
athos Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 8 hours ago, User said: No war has been lost. whatever losers Quote
Boges Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 On 2/24/2025 at 9:46 PM, Scott75 said: After annexing Crimea, Russia took no more Ukrainian territory for 8 years. During those 8 years, Ukraine engaged in a civil war with eastern Ukrainians. Do you know how that started? Perhaps more importantly, do you know what the Ukrainian military had begun to attack 8 days before Russia's military operation in Ukraine started 3 years ago today? You really expect us to believe that the separatist fighters weren't Russian backed? Take that type of propaganda to a US site, Bot! Quote
Boges Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 If the EU and Canada commit to a Peacekeeping force, which is what caused Trump and Vance to have their little hissy fit on Friday. Peace could be had. We've gone three years without risking any NATO lives, but with the Trumpers now completely compromised by Russia, the rest of the EU and/or NATO need some skin in the game. At this point I would suggest Article 5 of NATO isn't protecting anyone. Quote
User Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 4 hours ago, Boges said: If the EU and Canada commit to a Peacekeeping force, which is what caused Trump and Vance to have their little hissy fit on Friday. Peace could be had. We've gone three years without risking any NATO lives, but with the Trumpers now completely compromised by Russia, the rest of the EU and/or NATO need some skin in the game. At this point I would suggest Article 5 of NATO isn't protecting anyone. First, there was no hissy fit on Friday caused by Trump or Vance anymore than Zelensky caused it. Second, Trump is fully on board with some kind of European peace keeping force. Why do you say that caused an issue here? Third, Trump is not compromised by Russia. This is such a sad pathetic talking point. You are so far to the left on this, you are the opposite end of extreme as what you sit here denouncing from Athos. Fourth, there is nothing here to say Article 5 is no longer in effect. Just pure unmitigated BS fear mongering of the worst kind. Quote
Moonbox Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 1 hour ago, User said: First, there was no hissy fit on Friday caused by Trump or Vance anymore than Zelensky caused it. Yeah, Zelensky caused it, just like how Ukraine started the war (according to Trump). As predicted, now that Trump is openly and traitorously advocating on behalf of Putin and parroting his propaganda, you're warping reality around yourself to cope with the fact that he's doing exactly what you argued against, and claimed he wouldn't do. You're a freaking joke! 🤣 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Yeah, Zelensky caused it, just like how Ukraine started the war (according to Trump). As predicted, now that Trump is openly and traitorously advocating on behalf of Putin and parroting his propaganda, you're warping reality around yourself to cope with the fact that he's doing exactly what you argued against, and claimed he wouldn't do. You're a freaking joke! 🤣 As usual, the only thing you can offer is name-calling. Quote
Videospirit Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 On 2/24/2025 at 11:06 PM, athos said: Stop trolling with fake quotes. He didn't say that. Obviously it's paraphrased but you are illiterate if you don't acknowledge that's a valid interpretation of what he said. Quote Trump does not want the losing hand this is why it is more likely than not this war will end because Trump and President Putin will agree to end the war if Europe does all its great warmongering it doesn't matter the war is ending so get it out of your system please tell your colleagues it's over and it's over because Trump doesn't want to carry a loser that's it it's not some great morality he doesn't want to carry a loser this is a loser the one that will be saved by the negotiations taking place right now is Ukraine second is Europe your stock markets rising in recent Days by the horrible news of negotiations I know this has been met with the sheer Horror in these Chambers but this is the best news that you could get now TLDR: He's claiming Europe is helpless and needs to just capitulate to Russia's Demands because there is nothing Europe can do if the U.S. sells out Ukraine. Quote
Videospirit Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 23 minutes ago, User said: As usual, the only thing you can offer is name-calling. Name calling is the appropriate response when the other party is too stupid to comprehend reasonable arguments. Typical Right Wing Debate Strategy: 1. Lie 2. Ignore anything disproving lie 3. Claim the left can only insult you because they can't disprove your argument when they start giving you shit for how stupid step 2 is. You've already lost the argument when you decline to refute it on step 2, and any further discussion from you needs to receive harassment as that's the way humans have evolved to force aberrant individuals to reform. Quote
User Posted March 3 Report Posted March 3 8 minutes ago, Videospirit said: Name calling is the appropriate response when the other party is too stupid to comprehend reasonable arguments. Typical Right Wing Debate Strategy: 1. Lie 2. Ignore anything disproving lie 3. Claim the left can only insult you because they can't disprove your argument when they start giving you shit for how stupid step 2 is. You've already lost the argument when you decline to refute it on step 2, and any further discussion from you needs to receive harassment as that's the way humans have evolved to force aberrant individuals to reform. Feel free to show me where I lied, what specifically I ignored... and the person I responded to do did in fact resort to name calling. Quote
ironstone Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Videospirit said: there is nothing Europe can do if the U.S. sells out Ukraine. You mean like when they sold out Afghanistan and handed it back to the Taliban? Progressives didn't protest about that at all. 1 Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
Moonbox Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 2 minutes ago, User said: As usual, the only thing you can offer is name-calling. As predicted, not only is Trump trying to throw Ukraine under the bus and now openly parroting the propaganda you've spent months arguing against, you're also predictably not facing that contradiction with any sober thinking or perspective either. As usual, you've elected instead to re-organize the universe in your brain, scrambling it up to somehow reconcile with and justify how Trump is doing exactly what you said he would not do. It's pathetic. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 20 minutes ago, Moonbox said: As predicted, not only is Trump trying to throw Ukraine under the bus and now openly parroting the propaganda you've spent months arguing against, you're also predictably not facing that contradiction with any sober thinking or perspective either. As usual, you've elected instead to re-organize the universe in your brain, scrambling it up to somehow reconcile with and justify how Trump is doing exactly what you said he would not do. It's pathetic. As predicted? Show me your prediction where Trump has been trying to end this war with a peace deal and investments in Ukraine. That is not throwing Ukraine under the bus. The only thing predictable is your inability to engage in fact-based discussion. Its just empty rhetoric. Quote
Videospirit Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 4 hours ago, User said: Feel free to show me where I lied, what specifically I ignored... and the person I responded to do did in fact resort to name calling. Well your original lie was something along the lines of Europe is attacking freedom of speech. The first thing that comes to mind for stuff you ignore is the definition of freedom of speech, and the legal basis justifying PSPO zones. You also ignore that some statements need context to be true statements, and constantly lie about them being true without context. There's way more examples but I'd have to review the conversation to refresh my memory on it. Quote
Videospirit Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 2 hours ago, User said: As predicted? Show me your prediction where Trump has been trying to end this war with a peace deal and investments in Ukraine. That is not throwing Ukraine under the bus. The only thing predictable is your inability to engage in fact-based discussion. Its just empty rhetoric. Trump paused all military aid to Ukraine... again. There is no peace deal. This aid that Trump has paused has already been approved by congress. This just weakens Ukraine's position without meaningfully contributing to peace in Ukraine in any way not solely to Russia's benefit. Quote
User Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 9 hours ago, Videospirit said: Well your original lie was something along the lines of Europe is attacking freedom of speech. Not a lie, I provided the examples. 9 hours ago, Videospirit said: The first thing that comes to mind for stuff you ignore is the definition of freedom of speech, and the legal basis justifying PSPO zones. So, you admit they are attacking freedom of speech, you just want to defend it. 9 hours ago, Videospirit said: You also ignore that some statements need context to be true statements, and constantly lie about them being true without context. Like what? 9 hours ago, Videospirit said: There's way more examples but I'd have to review the conversation to refresh my memory on it. Well, if you want to jump in the thread after the fact to call me a liar, pony up. 9 hours ago, Videospirit said: Trump paused all military aid to Ukraine... again. There is no peace deal. This aid that Trump has paused has already been approved by congress. This just weakens Ukraine's position without meaningfully contributing to peace in Ukraine in any way not solely to Russia's benefit. Zelensky has been going around getting more European aid to keep the fight going. He basically told Trump to F off in diplomatic terms. So now Trump is doing the same. Quote
Boges Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 (edited) 17 hours ago, User said: First, there was no hissy fit on Friday caused by Trump or Vance anymore than Zelensky caused it. Second, Trump is fully on board with some kind of European peace keeping force. Why do you say that caused an issue here? Third, Trump is not compromised by Russia. This is such a sad pathetic talking point. You are so far to the left on this, you are the opposite end of extreme as what you sit here denouncing from Athos. Fourth, there is nothing here to say Article 5 is no longer in effect. Just pure unmitigated BS fear mongering of the worst kind. First, they ganged up on a world leader for simply pointing out that there was a peace agreement in place and Putin ignored it. Vance said this shouldn't be litigated in front of the media. Basically saying that they should be able to lie with impunity and it's rude to tell the truth. Second, is he? Has he said he'd put US boots on the ground to secure Ukraine? I heard the alcoholic he has running the DoD speculate that the US would pull all their troops from Europe. Third, on Saturday he said that Zelensky has to be nice to Putin. The guy who invaded his country. That's like saying Churchill has to be nicer to Hitler Fourth, Trump and Vance have both questioned the usefulness of NATO. The US has led the organization. But that's by design. They want the influence. Trump appears to seek isolationism. Why would he want to send troops to Poland or Estonia if Putin invaded those NATO members? Edited March 4 by Boges Quote
User Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 6 minutes ago, Boges said: First, they ganged up on a world leader for simply pointing out that there was a peace agreement in place and Putin ignored it. Vance said this shouldn't be litigated in front of the media. Basically saying that they should be able to lie with impunity and it's rude to tell the truth. This was supposed to be an Oval Office meeting to smile for the cameras. Zelensky kept pushing and pushing and pushing on security guarantees when that was not the purpose. He pushed, Trump and Vance finally pushed back. 7 minutes ago, Boges said: Second, is he? Has he said he'd put US boots on the ground to secure Ukraine? I heard the alcoholic he has running the DoD speculate that the US would pull all their troops from Europe. We do not need US boots on the ground to achieve peace. Is that what you want? 8 minutes ago, Boges said: Third, on Saturday he said that Zelensky has to be nice to Putin. The guy who invaded his country. That's like saying Churchill has to be nicer to Hitler That is not what he said. 8 minutes ago, Boges said: Fourth, Trump and Vance have both questioned the usefulness of NATO. The US has led the organization. But that's by design. They want the influence. Trump appears to seek isolationism. Why would he want to send troops to Poland or Estonia if Putin invaded those NATO members? No, Trump and Vance have been putting pressure on NATO to do more. That is leading. We already have troops in Poland. We already have troops in Estonia. Quote
Boges Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 1 minute ago, User said: This was supposed to be an Oval Office meeting to smile for the cameras. Zelensky kept pushing and pushing and pushing on security guarantees when that was not the purpose. He pushed, Trump and Vance finally pushed back. Trump has no problem making it political. Quote We do not need US boots on the ground to achieve peace. Is that what you want? You do if you want to ensure Putin doesn't invade again. Quote No, Trump and Vance have been putting pressure on NATO to do more. That is leading. We already have troops in Poland. We already have troops in Estonia. And Hegseth is threatening to remove them. The EU will do more now that the US isn't a reliable ally. Canada will do the same. Quote
User Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 Just now, Boges said: Trump has no problem making it political. Neither does Zelensky. Just now, Boges said: You do if you want to ensure Putin doesn't invade again. Why not European countries? Are you even an American? Do you want US troops deployed to Ukraine? 1 minute ago, Boges said: And Hegseth is threatening to remove them. The EU will do more now that the US isn't a reliable ally. Canada will do the same. Keep moving those goal posts. You are just throwing mud at the wall now. You make one bad claim and move on to the next. Hegseth did not "threaten" to remove anyone. What he said was that we would be reviewing force deployment posture around the world to better align with US goals. The EU and Canada should have been doing more before now. The US is a reliable ally, what we are not is going to continue to be the the piggy bank for everyone else's defense when they can contribute more. Quote
Moonbox Posted March 4 Report Posted March 4 15 hours ago, User said: As predicted? Show me your prediction where Trump has been trying to end this war with a peace deal and investments in Ukraine. That is not throwing Ukraine under the bus. A peace deal with no security guarantees, with a Russian adversary who's demonstrated nothing they sign is worth the paper it's written on? What's that worth to Ukraine? Nothing. The idea that American "mineral rights" somehow substitute for actually meaningful security guarantees is a funny magic trick that Republicans are trying to convince the world of. 15 hours ago, User said: The only thing predictable is your inability to engage in fact-based discussion. Its just empty rhetoric. Did Trump not come out and say that Zelensky is a dictator and that Ukraine started the war? Did he not just halt aid to Ukraine, as we predicted? The idea that you're interested in a fact-based discussion is farcical considering the mental backflips you're doing to try justifying the above. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
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