Ukraine Can't Win the War

[User]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...dude...I see...I analyze...and that's that. Just the other day they missiled Kiev. Power down. Airport probably unusable again.

Its almost like you are cheering them on. 

[User]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

War is chess. Moves should be calculated and planned. Failure to plan properly can have catastrophic results. Ask Russia on year one of this war.

Sounds like math to me.

Yet again, you just say contradictory things. You were not saying war was chess a moment ago, you were saying war is a matter of who has more on paper. 

 

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

They made knuckleheaded mistakes. Almost took the capital.

Now they are saving face, by holding onto as much as they can.

What, mistakes? Imagine that... now you want us to believe Russia is going to perfectly hold what they have. 

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I support peace.

No, you support Russia and surrender to them on terms most beneficial to them. 

What you support leads to more aggression, more war. 

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Understanding Ukraine and Russia culturally, and historically, only negotiation will work, but would need to be brokered by a third party.

Already explained to you many times more things can work than negotiations that are most beneficial to Russia. 

 

[Nationalist]

28 minutes ago, User said:

Its almost like you are cheering them on. 

No. Just posting the events as they are. Ukraine has been lobbing missiles into Russia lately too. From what I understand though, they are not hitting military targets.

Putin has recently given Russia's terms. The Donbas region and Crimea remain under Russian control and Ukraine does not become a NATO nation.

IMO, the NATO thing is a tough sell but, it's a starting point...if NATO/USA are willing to talk about peace.

Note Odessa is not part of the deal offered. I find that surprising.

[myata]

In his own universe, where Hitler and Putin are cute, rosy-cheeked innocent victims. The brain took 4,000,000,000 years to evolve. What a failure!

Edited June 15 by myata

[Perspektiv]

11 hours ago, User said:

You were not saying war was chess a moment ago

But it is chess. I pointed to strategy being required. A sit and wait strategy favors Russia, heavily.

A powerful incursion by Ukraine, forcing Russia back reeling, favors Ukraine. Ultimately, either scenario play themselves out at the negotiation table.

Unless you can manage to obliterate Russian forces outnumbrted multiple times over, then that's the end of the tunnel.

Leaked documented showcased a somber Zelensky painting a dire situation for his army. Admitting to why they weren't able to manage strong spring offensives, without sacrificing volumes of men and women that they just don't have with weapons they can't obtain fast enough.

North Korea's ammunition production, far outpaces the west as a whole.

Am just not sure what world you're living in, that has Ukraine winning on the battleground.

A good scenario is them negotiating officially recognizing Crimea as Russian soil, and agreeing to lose a smaller portion of their own land with security guarantees that aren't even remotely allowed on the table unless they include NATO admission, or some form of military protection from the US that prevents a reoccurrence from an enemy that can't even be trusted.

11 hours ago, User said:

What, mistakes?

Military mistakes, managerial mistakes, logistics mistakes. They are quite well documented, as to how Russia had an easy route to Kiev, but sheer incompetence and power tripping is why they find themselves grasping at straws to save face from their embarrassing performance.

There is no way they make any moves that make them look weak after how they made a fool of themselves on the battlefield.

11 hours ago, User said:

you support Russia

Putting words in one's mouth, don't automatically make them reality. 

In fact, last time it makes it nothing more than your personal opinion.

 

 

[myata]

So he proposes as a "good scenario" giving aggressor what they want and hoping that they wouldn't come for more. Why wouldn't they if you just gave them what they wanted? Why wouldn't they come for more and more until they take all? Like he has an answer that doesn't and cannot exist.

This is the same exact: word to word adage that was used to justify the Munich deal on the verge of WWII. As the whole world knows, it failed grotesquely, causing immeasurable suffering. There's no good paths giving brutal thugs what they want. They will always come for more, and you will achieve nothing by bleeding the strength and will to stand up.

And they'll keep drumming this old and tired adage on and on, in a complete ignorance of the lessons of the past and the reality. Is it a surprise the the suckers, inspired by their fetish want nothing less than to rewrite both the reality and the history?

Four billion years, and for nothing. What a failure.

[myata]

OK, short:

1. Cower to the thug and beg to "negotiate".

2. Munich was a "good scenario".

Let's see if there's more. It would be an astounding discovery.

[DUI_Offender]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:16 AM, Perspektiv said:

 

The US was talking tough, as was Ukraine. All options should have been on the table. Many were not.

Exclusive: As war began, Putin rejected a Ukraine peace deal recommended by aide

Ukraine desperately tried to negotiate with Putin in the days leading up to the invasion. Putin refused to negotiate. Stop lying.

Edited June 16 by DUI_Offender

[myata]

8 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Stop lying.

But they can't. That's the sole, one and only foundation of their case: take it out and what's left? "Munich was a good scenario". The history is all wrong.

[DUI_Offender]

12 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

 

North Korea's ammunition production, far outpaces the west as a whole.

This is the most unintentionally hilarious statement you have made, and that is saying something.

North Korea: impoverished state of 25 million people can out-produce approximately one billion people (40 times the population of North Korea) in NATO countries, including the United States (population: 340 million), a first world country, which spends the same amount on it's defence than all other countries combined.

Do you ever read what you type, or are you delusional?  The longer this thread gets, the more bizarre the statements the Putin apologists make. 

Edited June 16 by DUI_Offender

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

But it is chess. I pointed to strategy being required. A sit and wait strategy favors Russia, heavily.

Not really.  The only reason it ever could is if the info ops convinces enough western mooks towards your arguments.  

For Russia to maintain this war, they have to turn theirs into a war economy, spending well over 10% of their GDP on it but probably a lot more (since Russian numbers are as accurate as their history). 

Meanwhile, an economic bloc that dwarfs Russia (like truly dwarfs it) can donate their obsolete/surplus equipment (which is still miles better than Russian garbage) and help dismantle one of their biggest geopolitic military threats for pennies on the dollar. 

No, the only way a war of attrition favors Russia is if Putin convinces enough donkeys to believe it.   

[DUI_Offender]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:38 PM, Nationalist said:

 

Note Odessa is not part of the deal offered. I find that surprising.

Odessa is under complete Ukrainian control. Why on earth would they give it to Russia?

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

Odessa is under complete Ukrainian control. Why on earth would they give it to Russia?

Why indeed. Perhaps this offer should be taken seriously?

[Perspektiv]

7 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Ukraine desperately tried to negotiate

Both parties were stuck on major points.

7 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

This is the most unintentionally hilarious

You can laugh all you want, but the US is highly concerned, and for good cause.

 

[myata]

5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

if Putin convinces enough donkeys to believe it.   

That's the idea, of course. Useful id!ots and honest admirers of thuggish brutality all come handy in the program, everything goes.

[Perspektiv]

22 minutes ago, myata said:

thuggish brutality

Lesson learned?

Trust nobody. Arm yourself to the teeth and be prepared to defend what is yours.

If you're reliant on outside help, you're already f***ed.

Ukraine has the west backing it, but isn't permanently.

Things can and do change, politically.

Russia isn't deterred in the slightest, as they can continue to bully Ukraine as they see fit.

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Arm yourself to the teeth and be prepared to defend what is yours.

Wow. Is it a product of thought and reflection or another split-brain spillover though?

What are we saying now about "give Hitler what he wants now and then more" and "Munich was a good scenario"?

[DUI_Offender]

10 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Both parties were stuck on major points.

You can laugh all you want, but the US is highly concerned, and for good cause.

 

Once again, you are back-peddling, and trying to change the subject. You stated "North Korea produces more ammunition than the entire West combined."  By early 2024, the United States is producing nearly 30,000 ammunition shells per month.  That is roughly 350,000 shells per year.  Their goal is to produce 70,000-80,0000 shells a month by 2025, which would almost a million shells a year. 

North Korea gave a whopping 5 million shells to Russia, which is less than the US produces in a week.  And this is just the United States, and not including any country from NATO (Germany, UK, France, etc). 

source;  https://www.voanews.com/a/without-more-funds-us-unable-to-hit-ammunition-production-goals/7510881.html

Do you have a source to validate your claim that North Korea produces more ammunition shells that the USA and all Western countries combined, or are you going to dodge the question, as per usual?

Edited June 16 by DUI_Offender

[DUI_Offender]

On 6/14/2024 at 3:22 PM, Nationalist said:

 

Trump will do everything in his power to end this war with a peace agreement and you know it.

Trump is more or less a Russian asset, who is in Putin's back pocket. If Trump is elected, the war will probably come to an end within a few months of him taking office.  However, it will not be "peace." It will be Trump giving Russia everything it wants, and leaving Ukraine out of the mix. 

Technically Trump is correct when he says he can help end the war.  The problem is, Trump will betray the Ukrainians immediately, and help Putin achieve victory, and conquer the entire Ukraine. 

Edited June 16 by DUI_Offender

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Do you have a source to validate your claim that North Korea produces more ammunition shells that the USA and all Western countries combined, or are you going to dodge the question, as per usual?

As we all know, Great Leader has uncovered and mastered mystical esoteric knowledge, which has allowed the his hilariously poor glorious and heroic industrial base to out produce Europe and North America.  

[Queenmandy85]

14 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Trump is more or less a Russian asset, who is in Putin's back pocket. If Trump is elected, the war will probably come to an end within a few months of him taking office.  However, it will not be "peace." It will be Trump giving Russia everything it wants, and leaving Ukraine out of the mix. 

Technically Trump is correct when he says he can help end the war.  The problem is, Trump will betray the Ukrainians immediately, and help Putin achieve victory, and conquer the entire Ukraine. 

And as a result, the Ukrainians will suffer through Holodomor 2.0

[myata]

I don't think the free world can allow itself to go into the fatalism mindset. If the freedom is worth defending the commitment to it cannot depend on any one face or any country. Those who value it in the world would need to unite and press ahead. Or it could be the end of it, in the whole world: the only alternative. If freedom could not stand to the evil of Russia how could it to the united Axis of dictators? Not a chance. Blind may not see it but it wouldn't change anything in the outcome.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Technically Trump is correct when he says he can help end the war. 

That's just fear mongering talk. 

[DUI_Offender]

19 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

That's just fear mongering talk. 

This statement demonstrates your lack of understanding in terms of Donald Trump and the Russia-Ukraine conflict. 

[Perspektiv]

36 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

This statement demonstrates your lack of understanding in terms of Donald Trump and the Russia-Ukraine conflict. 

Trump would give Putin both an exit ramp an PR win.