Nationalist Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 16 minutes ago, User said: LOL, you have been making this argument for years. You are the one denying reality. We will see when this ends. Im not holding a lot of hope for Ukraine. Or NATO. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted January 20 Report Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, Nationalist said: We will see when this ends. Im not holding a lot of hope for Ukraine. Or NATO. You have been saying this for years... Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 (edited) For Ukraine, just staying free is winning the war. Ukrainians know what will happen if they give in to Russia - they are all too familiar with how ghastly Russian rule is - so they have no choice but to go on fighting as long as they can. Putin isn’t interested in any serious compromise of his war aims. Instead he’s allegedly offering a sordid deal to the Americans. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/69639 Edited February 9 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 (edited) Kyiv’s mayor, former heavyweight boxing champion Vitali Klitschko, is a living symbol of Ukraine’ tragic history, having lost relatives in both the Holocaust and the Holodomor. Now that they have tasted freedom, there’s no way Ukrainians are going to be ‘reasonable’, look at their cards or the lack thereof, and meekly surrender to authoritarianism again. They’re going to fight as long as they can. They have to. Edited February 9 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 It is extraordinary how a ruined country like Putin’s Russia remains so focused on conquest. Madness of a sort. Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
Nationalist Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 10 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: It is extraordinary how a ruined country like Putin’s Russia remains so focused on conquest. Madness of a sort. Ruined? Their economy is still growing. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
BeaverFever Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 On 2/10/2026 at 4:57 AM, Nationalist said: Ruined? Their economy is still growing. Only because of government spending on the war, which is largely done with money borrowed from China. Not to mention Russians are struggling with runaway inflation and double digit interest rates and the fact that government spending on every other aspect of society from healthcare and education to public transit has been gutted to pay for the war which has already killed 1.6 million Russians. Thanks to Putin the War has become “too big to fail” economically which is a real reason why he doesn’t seek peace. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 11 Report Posted February 11 (edited) 54 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Only because of government spending on the war, which is largely done with money borrowed from China. Not to mention Russians are struggling with runaway inflation and double digit interest rates and the fact that government spending on every other aspect of society from healthcare and education to public transit has been gutted to pay for the war which has already killed 1.6 million Russians. Thanks to Putin the War has become “too big to fail” economically which is a real reason why he doesn’t seek peace. Gee...d'ya think maybe when the biggest nuclear power in the world, says 'stop meddling in Ukraine', that maybe NATO, The EU and The US State Department should have taken them seriously? I heard The Green T-Shirt is now openly talking about holding a national election AND a war referendum this Spring. I doubt he can "win" either. And if your argument is that Ukrainians should have a right to go to war with Russia, to save their country...I would agree. BUT NOT WITH MY MONEY! That war holds no bearing on me, my family, nor my nation. Yours either. Thus my nation has no business getting involved.! Edited February 11 by Nationalist 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 9 hours ago, Nationalist said: Gee...d'ya think maybe when the biggest nuclear power in the world, says 'stop meddling in Ukraine', that maybe NATO, The EU and The US State Department should have taken them seriously? The issue is that we already know your position on this. Russia doesn't get to dictate to the world what it must and must not do because it is a large nuclear power. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and has every right to engage in the world as it desires to build the relationships it wants. To this point, you push lies and cheer on Russia in this war. 9 hours ago, Nationalist said: I heard The Green T-Shirt is now openly talking about holding a national election AND a war referendum this Spring. I doubt he can "win" either. Funny how you don't criticize Putin for his "winning." 9 hours ago, Nationalist said: And if your argument is that Ukrainians should have a right to go to war with Russia, to save their country...I would agree. Look at how you dishonestly phrase this. Ukraine did not go to war with Russia. Russia went to war against Ukraine. 9 hours ago, Nationalist said: BUT NOT WITH MY MONEY! This is disingenuous, as if all you cared about was your money... as if your opinion on this would somehow be different if your nation were not spending anything while the rest of the world was. 9 hours ago, Nationalist said: That war holds no bearing on me, my family, nor my nation. Yours either. Thus my nation has no business getting involved.! *cough* NATO *cough* Quote
Nationalist Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 6 hours ago, User said: The issue is that we already know your position on this. Russia doesn't get to dictate to the world what it must and must not do because it is a large nuclear power. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and has every right to engage in the world as it desires to build the relationships it wants. To this point, you push lies and cheer on Russia in this war. Sovereign like Venezuela? Cuba? Haiti? Iraq? Iran? Vietnam? No. I dont "cheer" for anyone in that exercise in stupidity. 6 hours ago, User said: Funny how you don't criticize Putin for his "winning." Oh. Did Ukraine win something? Their power generation perhaps? Has Zelinsky won anything? Hundreds of millions of our money maybe? 6 hours ago, User said: Look at how you dishonestly phrase this. Ukraine did not go to war with Russia. Russia went to war against Ukraine. That's true. Instead the Ukrainian army, under Zelinsky, attacked ethnic Russian separatists, who repeatedly begged the Duma for help...which they finally provided by attacking Ukraine. Just what does any of that have to do with us? 6 hours ago, User said: This is disingenuous, as if all you cared about was your money... as if your opinion on this would somehow be different if your nation were not spending anything while the rest of the world was. I would always have the same opinion because what's going on in Ukraine is none of NATO's business. 7 hours ago, User said: *cough* NATO *cough* NATO? Since when was Ukraine admitted to NATO? Oh right...never. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
DogOnPorch Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 The Lefties think that Putin's non-team player Russia is simply a bear to poke and abuse. But their new sneakers will not save them from a one megaton air-burst no matter WHAT expensive brand they choose. Or from this thing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon_(unmanned_underwater_vehicle) But I admire their Jesse Owens spirit. 😄 1 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
User Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: Sovereign like Venezuela? Cuba? Haiti? Iraq? Iran? Vietnam? No. I dont "cheer" for anyone in that exercise in stupidity. Yes, sovereign like those. My position is not one of absolutes, which leaves us to justification... and that you support Russia going to war here. We already know that. Yes, you have literally cheered them on and continue to support them. 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: Oh. Did Ukraine win something? Their power generation perhaps? Has Zelinsky won anything? Hundreds of millions of our money maybe? You brought up winning an election, in questioning Zelensky being able to win, I called out how you don't criticize Putin for his "win" (He is a dictator and did not win), and instead of dealing with that you play this dumb obfuscation game. 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: That's true. Instead the Ukrainian army, under Zelinsky, attacked ethnic Russian separatists, who repeatedly begged the Duma for help...which they finally provided by attacking Ukraine. Just what does any of that have to do with us? More of your Russian propaganda to support them. Russia ran black ops with their military in the region, funding separatists and helping them take control of the regional government, and outright backing them with Russian military and equipment. As any country would do, yes, obviously duh, they resisted this and fought. Why does NATO exist? 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: I would always have the same opinion because what's going on in Ukraine is none of NATO's business. Why does NATO exist? 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: NATO? Since when was Ukraine admitted to NATO? Oh right...never. Why does NATO exist? Quote
Nationalist Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 56 minutes ago, User said: Yes, sovereign like those. My position is not one of absolutes, which leaves us to justification... and that you support Russia going to war here. We already know that. Oh...here we go with the mobile principles. 58 minutes ago, User said: Yes, you have literally cheered them on and continue to support them. Yes I sort o' did once in anger. Meh...I think it was beave I posted that to. I think my very first post about this would have been to stay the hell out of it. This is NOT NATO's fight. Even lately we've seen that neither NATO nor the EU, think Ukraine is fit for club inclusion. Well of course not. Anything the Americans haven't already bought, has been blowed up real good already. The grid is down, the main transmission lines are under constant attack, they've run outta soldiers and the mighty NATO, doesn't have the stomach for in-ur-face war with Russia. Here's the latest: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/live-russian-attack-leaves-nearly-300-000-people-without-power-water-supply-in-odessa/ar-AA1WblR9 More... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdxe8yqlvgzo Kiev's a mess...Odessa's a mess...the power grid is sketchy at best...the Ukrainians are running out of soldiers... I thought it was comical that now, as if his opinion has done a complete 180, the Mighty Macron thinks he should be talking directly to Russia. Hilarious...He's such a twerp. 1 hour ago, User said: As any country would do, yes, obviously duh, they resisted this and fought. Ok...they fought and lost. Now what? Drag all of NATO into WWIII? 'Cause that pretty much the other option. I mean...do you really expect Russia to just pack up and leave? 1 hour ago, User said: Why does NATO exist? I'd like an answer to that question too. NATO was put in place to put up a wall from the Soviets. Basically, Russia, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland. But the Soviet Union is gone. Another, less talked about original and current purpose, is to "support" a European post WWII rebuild to prosperity. Well...Europe did manage to recover from WWII. Job done. So in short...NATO serves no real purpose. Its now just a diplomatic bureaucracy playing with nukes. Oh Goody! Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Oh...here we go with the mobile principles. No, this was your strawman, not mine. I clearly said my statement was not an absolute, obviously. The difference is that you are taking sides with Russia and justifying their actions... and it appears you were siding with Maduro... do you like all the evil dictators around the world and take their sides? 9 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Yes I sort o' did once in anger. Meh...I think it was beave I posted that to. I think my very first post about this would have been to stay the hell out of it. This is NOT NATO's fight. Sort of did... LOL NATO is not fighting, but we can certainly help. It's funny, though, that you think it is cool, justify, defend, and support saying it was Russia's business to help the ethnic Russians, but definitely not NATO's business, to oppose Russian aggression. Your criticisms are all one way, never the direction of Russia. 14 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Kiev's a mess...Odessa's a mess...the power grid is sketchy at best...the Ukrainians are running out of soldiers... I thought it was comical that now, as if his opinion has done a complete 180, the Mighty Macron thinks he should be talking directly to Russia. Hilarious...He's such a twerp. OMG, you mean, war is a mess? Yes it is. You have been making it seem like literally anything and everything that happens is the end of the world for Ukraine for years now. And as before, your noticing of how bad things are never seems to look at Russia. 19 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Ok...they fought and lost. Now what? Drag all of NATO into WWIII? 'Cause that pretty much the other option. I mean...do you really expect Russia to just pack up and leave? Ukraine has not lost. You have been saying they have lost for years. Still there, still fighting. You play this stupid game over and over again, that we can't dare oppose Russian aggression or it will be WWIII! OMG! So, if you want to give Russia WWIII veto power over all their actions, you are just fine with them invading the whole damn world. Yes, I do expect Russia to pack up and leave. They are the wrongful aggressors here invading. I find it appalling that you just expect Ukraine to surrender and be conquered. 22 minutes ago, Nationalist said: I'd like an answer to that question too. NATO was put in place to put up a wall from the Soviets. Basically, Russia, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Ukraine, Poland. But the Soviet Union is gone. Another, less talked about original and current purpose, is to "support" a European post WWII rebuild to prosperity. Well...Europe did manage to recover from WWII. Job done. So in short...NATO serves no real purpose. Its now just a diplomatic bureaucracy playing with nukes. Oh Goody! The NATO alliance, while primarily to thwart the Soviet Union, purpose as a defensive alliance doesn't end nor has that purpose come to an end. To the point, Russia is still a threat and still poses a threat. You sit here trying to argue Russia is such a grave threat we must be concerned about angering them into WWIII and then also argue there is no need for NATO. Why... it is almost like you have a nefarious motive to just support Russia and because NATO opposes the kind of aggression from them you support here, you don't like NATO. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 1 hour ago, User said: No, this was your strawman, not mine. I clearly said my statement was not an absolute, obviously. The difference is that you are taking sides with Russia and justifying their actions... and it appears you were siding with Maduro... do you like all the evil dictators around the world and take their sides? Its not a strawman at all. Tell me...what was Maduro doing that really pissed off the Americans? Exporting hard drugs into the USA. Not that that's the only reason I know, but it provides the perfect excuse to force Venezuela to do an about face. I'm glad that one drug funnel is plugged. I'm also hopeful Venezuela can be brought back to what it was before. You're just all pissy-pants because I'm not waiving the NATO flag. Dude...I think NATO is the problem. Their whole reason for being has been accomplished. Congratulations Europe...now defend your own Gawd-Damn lands. Ahhh...but they either can't, or they don't want to. No...they want NATO to do it. And who is NATO? US funds and technology for the most part. Piles of funds from all the other members. TAX PAYER FUNDS! MY FUNDS! YOURS TOO! Well I'm sorry...but I do not want my funds sent to disappear in the corrupt blackhole that is Ukraine. Not only that but, what does my nation gain from this adventure? What does your nations stand to gain? Anything but corporate ownership of whatever's left? Ya...I KNOW how this works. I happen to have personal experience in watching it from the inside. I KNOW what NATO and the fcking EU are after. Did you really think either had altruistic reasons for funding and arming...and sending soldiers...to Ukraine? Please... 1 hour ago, User said: Sort of did... LOL Yes...sort of. 1 hour ago, User said: NATO is not fighting, but we can certainly help. Why? For money and control? 1 hour ago, User said: It's funny, though, that you think it is cool, justify, defend, and support saying it was Russia's business to help the ethnic Russians, but definitely not NATO's business, to oppose Russian aggression. Your criticisms are all one way, never the direction of Russia. Cool? Are you Ukrainian? Do you happen to live in Slovakia? Hungary? Poland? Do you even live in Europe? No? If you look at a world map, you'll note that Ukraine actually shares a very long border with Russia. I'll tell you something else too. Among the border nations to Ukraine, they are not really interested in direct war with Russia at all. Google it. Quote Polish people overwhelmingly fear a direct war with Russia and strongly desire to avoid one, with only 8–9% believing their country is prepared for such a conflict . While roughly 60–80% are concerned about security threats and Russia's aggression, public sentiment focuses on deterrence via NATO, rather than direct military engagement. Well...NATO appears to be incapable of effective deterrence in Ukraine at least. Would they all dog-pile on Russia should a NATO member be attacked? Debatable. Not certain. As for my criticisms...I apply common sense. If I post a big sign on my fence that clearly says, "Do Not Enter! Beware of Dog!", and you hope over the fence and get your leg bitten off...who's at fault? 2 hours ago, User said: OMG, you mean, war is a mess? Yes it is. You have been making it seem like literally anything and everything that happens is the end of the world for Ukraine for years now. And as before, your noticing of how bad things are never seems to look at Russia. Russia's economy is growing despite the sanctions. Ukraine's...not so much eh? 2 hours ago, User said: You play this stupid game over and over again, that we can't dare oppose Russian aggression or it will be WWIII! OMG! So, if you want to give Russia WWIII veto power over all their actions, you are just fine with them invading the whole damn world. Please try to stay within the bounds of reality. BTW...Russia does have veto power on the UN Security Council. So does the USA. That's what you get for having the power to destroy all human life on the planet. 2 hours ago, User said: Yes, I do expect Russia to pack up and leave. They are the wrongful aggressors here invading. I find it appalling that you just expect Ukraine to surrender and be conquered. Dream on. Russia has no desire to leave. They've annexed the ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine and will keep them. Well you go agead and be appalled then, but that's what happens when you lose battles. They could have just allowed the Russian provinces to maintain their culture and language...much like Canada has done with Quebec. But no...they had to be ham-handed with those provinces and the ethnic Russians would not be dominated...what a surprise eh? 2 hours ago, User said: The NATO alliance, while primarily to thwart the Soviet Union, purpose as a defensive alliance doesn't end nor has that purpose come to an end. To the point, Russia is still a threat and still poses a threat. You sit here trying to argue Russia is such a grave threat we must be concerned about angering them into WWIII and then also argue there is no need for NATO. Why... it is almost like you have a nefarious motive to just support Russia and because NATO opposes the kind of aggression from them you support here, you don't like NATO. Russia was providing Europe with oil and gas...and other raw materials...for years before this war started. No complaints by no one. Business as usual. No threat. How did that threat become revived? NATO/EU/US meddling. They obviously underestimated Russia's capabilities and resolve. Stupid them. You go ahead and try to convince yourself I have some affinity for Russia. That's really the only argument you have and it too is false. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
User Posted February 12 Report Posted February 12 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Its not a strawman at all. Tell me...what was Maduro doing that really pissed off the Americans? Exporting hard drugs into the USA. Not that that's the only reason I know, but it provides the perfect excuse to force Venezuela to do an about face. I'm glad that one drug funnel is plugged. I'm also hopeful Venezuela can be brought back to what it was before. It was a strawman, I explained why. Notice... we did not invade Venezueala. We arrested the dictator who was not even recognized as the rightful ruler. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: You're just all pissy-pants because I'm not waiving the NATO flag. Dude...I think NATO is the problem. Their whole reason for being has been accomplished. Congratulations Europe...now defend your own Gawd-Damn lands. Ahhh...but they either can't, or they don't want to. No...they want NATO to do it. And who is NATO? US funds and technology for the most part. Piles of funds from all the other members. No, I just point out the duplicity of your arguments that you support Russia, defend them, justify their actions, while you denounce NATO and say they do not need to exist. You never seem to have a negative thing to say about Russia, but NATO? Oh man. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: TAX PAYER FUNDS! MY FUNDS! YOURS TOO! Well I'm sorry...but I do not want my funds sent to disappear in the corrupt blackhole that is Ukraine. Not only that but, what does my nation gain from this adventure? What does your nations stand to gain? Anything but corporate ownership of whatever's left? Ya...I KNOW how this works. I happen to have personal experience in watching it from the inside. I KNOW what NATO and the fcking EU are after. Did you really think either had altruistic reasons for funding and arming...and sending soldiers...to Ukraine? Please... I already pointed out how this argument is just a ruse. Your arguments do not stop at just not wanting your money to pay for it. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Why? For money and control? Because NATO exists in part to oppose Russian aggression that also threatens NATO. We also have a historical obligation to help Ukraine. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Cool? Are you Ukrainian? Do you happen to live in Slovakia? Hungary? Poland? Do you even live in Europe? No? If you look at a world map, you'll note that Ukraine actually shares a very long border with Russia. I'll tell you something else too. Among the border nations to Ukraine, they are not really interested in direct war with Russia at all. Google it. Are you Russian? Do you live in Russia? What does any of this have to do with how you side with Russia, oppose NATO, and support, justify, and defend Russian aggression, but oppose NATO support for Ukraine? Did you know that NATO borders Russia?!?!?! No one is interested in a war with Russia. No shit. Neither was Ukraine. Russia had other plans, you know, the country you sit here defending. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Russia's economy is growing despite the sanctions. Ukraine's...not so much eh? What does this have to do with anything other than you continuing to prove my point, that you can never quite seem to come up with any criticism of Russia or point out how poorly things are going for them on the war front? 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Please try to stay within the bounds of reality. BTW...Russia does have veto power on the UN Security Council. So does the USA. That's what you get for having the power to destroy all human life on the planet. You are the one presuming WWIII here, essentially arguing that no one can do anything to oppose Russian aggression because OMG it will be WWIII! Here we are years later with NATO allies continuing to ever-increase their aid to Ukraine and the types of weapons, and... guess what, no WWIII. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Dream on. Russia has no desire to leave. They've annexed the ethnic Russian areas of Ukraine and will keep them. Well you go agead and be appalled then, but that's what happens when you lose battles. They could have just allowed the Russian provinces to maintain their culture and language...much like Canada has done with Quebec. But no...they had to be ham-handed with those provinces and the ethnic Russians would not be dominated...what a surprise eh? You dream on, NATO allies have no desire to see Russia conquer Ukraine. You continue to lie about how this all went down, as if it was just some natural uprising. 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Russia was providing Europe with oil and gas...and other raw materials...for years before this war started. No complaints by no one. Business as usual. No threat. How did that threat become revived? NATO/EU/US meddling. They obviously underestimated Russia's capabilities and resolve. Stupid them. You go ahead and try to convince yourself I have some affinity for Russia. That's really the only argument you have and it too is false. There were plenty of complaints; Trump was one of the key figures before the war started. I don't have to convince myself of anything; you are here right now, proving you have some affinity for Russia. You completely ignored my calling out the conflicting nature of your argument as well. Imagine that. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 13 hours ago, User said: It was a strawman, I explained why. Notice... we did not invade Venezueala. We arrested the dictator who was not even recognized as the rightful ruler. No, I just point out the duplicity of your arguments that you support Russia, defend them, justify their actions, while you denounce NATO and say they do not need to exist. You never seem to have a negative thing to say about Russia, but NATO? Oh man. I already pointed out how this argument is just a ruse. Your arguments do not stop at just not wanting your money to pay for it. Because NATO exists in part to oppose Russian aggression that also threatens NATO. We also have a historical obligation to help Ukraine. Are you Russian? Do you live in Russia? What does any of this have to do with how you side with Russia, oppose NATO, and support, justify, and defend Russian aggression, but oppose NATO support for Ukraine? Did you know that NATO borders Russia?!?!?! No one is interested in a war with Russia. No shit. Neither was Ukraine. Russia had other plans, you know, the country you sit here defending. What does this have to do with anything other than you continuing to prove my point, that you can never quite seem to come up with any criticism of Russia or point out how poorly things are going for them on the war front? You are the one presuming WWIII here, essentially arguing that no one can do anything to oppose Russian aggression because OMG it will be WWIII! Here we are years later with NATO allies continuing to ever-increase their aid to Ukraine and the types of weapons, and... guess what, no WWIII. You dream on, NATO allies have no desire to see Russia conquer Ukraine. You continue to lie about how this all went down, as if it was just some natural uprising. There were plenty of complaints; Trump was one of the key figures before the war started. I don't have to convince myself of anything; you are here right now, proving you have some affinity for Russia. You completely ignored my calling out the conflicting nature of your argument as well. Imagine that. We've already seen how the US responded to Venezuela doing business with China and Russia. What do you think would happen if China and Russia sent people to Canada and engineered an election win for pro Chinese and Russian stooges. Then imposed their languages and cultures on Canadians. The Canadians try to fight back and are attacked militarily by the Canadian military. Do you think the USA would stay out of it? 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Scott75 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 15 hours ago, Nationalist said: Russia was providing Europe with oil and gas...and other raw materials...for years before this war started. No complaints by no one. Business as usual. No threat. How did that threat become revived? NATO/EU/US meddling. They obviously underestimated Russia's capabilities and resolve. Stupid them. I agree on underestimating Russia. The way I see it, NATO, headed by the U.S., thought they could just walk all over Russia. Thus, the U.S.'s decision to play a strong role in "westernizing" Ukraine back in 2014, leading to the elected Ukrainian President fleeing for his life to Russia and a government with Neo Nazi ties was ushered in, with western blessings. It was only then that Russia decided to accept Crimean's request to rejoin Russia. Ukraine's civil war started soon after, with NATO leading material support to it. From what I can see, the absolute last straw for Russia was Ukraine's renewed assault on the Donbass, starting on February 16th, 2022. Even then, Putin initially resisted recognizing the Donbass Republics and promising to help them against the Ukrainian assault, as Russia's Duma (congress equivalent) apparently wanted, but after the assault continued, Putin relented on February 21st, 2022. That could have been seen as Putin's last warning to western Ukraine and its western allies. It went unheeded. As former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud implied, Putin was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but it seems clear that generally speaking, the Russian leadership was not happy about this western push to its very border and he went with that wave. Some great quotes from Jacques Baud on the subject: ** On February 17 [2022], President Joe Biden announces that Russia will attack Ukraine in the coming days. How does he know? Mystery… But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the populations of Donbass has increased dramatically, as shown by the daily reports of OSCE observers. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacts and intervenes. We will say later that this is Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries purposely glossed over the massacre of the people of Donbass, knowing that it would provoke Russian intervention. [snip] In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers. from the Donbass being run over. If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P). But he knows that whatever its nature or scale, the intervention will trigger a shower of sanctions. Therefore, whether its intervention is limited to the Donbass or whether it goes further to put pressure on the West for the status of Ukraine, the price to be paid will be the same. This is what he explains in his speech on February 21. That day, he acceded to the request of the Duma and recognized the independence of the two Republics of Donbass and, in the process, he signed treaties of friendship and assistance with them. The Ukrainian artillery bombardments on the populations of Donbass continued and, on February 23, the two Republics requested military aid from Russia. On the 24th, Vladimir Putin invokes Article 51 of the United Nations Charter which provides for mutual military assistance within the framework of a defensive alliance. In order to make the Russian intervention totally illegal in the eyes of the public we deliberately obscure the fact that the war actually started on February 16th. The Ukrainian army was preparing to attack the Donbass as early as 2021, as certain Russian and European intelligence services were well aware… The lawyers will judge. ** Full article: https://scheerpost.com/2022/04/09/former-nato-military-analyst-blows-the-whistle-on-wests-ukraine-invasion-narrative/ 1 Quote
Scott75 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Nationalist said: What do you think would happen if China and Russia sent people to Canada and engineered an election win for pro Chinese and Russian stooges. Then imposed their languages and cultures on Canadians. The Canadians try to fight back and are attacked militarily by the Canadian military. Do you think the USA would stay out of it? A great point. I strongly believe that the U.S. wouldn't have been nearly as patient as Russia was, trying for 8 years to resolve the issue diplomatically, from 2014 to 2022. U.S. Professor John Mearsheimer predicted what would happen to Ukraine if it continued along its path of following U.S. backed western "solutions" way back in 2015: ** "What's going on here is that the West is leading Ukraine down the primrose path and the end result is that Ukraine is going to get wrecked and I believe that the policy that I'm advocating which is neutralising Ukraine and then building it up economically and getting it out of the competition between Russia on one side and NATO on the other side is the best thing that could happen to the Ukrainians," he can be heard saying in the video. He said that what the West is doing is diametrically opposite since it is encouraging Kyiv to "play tough" with Moscow. Mearsheimer mentioned Ukrainians are being told that they will become a part of the West. [video of Mearsheimer's speech in original] "We're encouraging the Ukrainians to think that they will ultimately become part of the West because we will ultimately defeat Putin and we will ultimately get our way, time is on our side." The American scholar stated the Ukrainians are playing along and are "almost completely unwilling" to give up and instead want to pursue a hardline policy against the Russians. "The end result is that their country is going to be wrecked. And what we're doing is in effect encouraging that outcome." Furthermore, he suggested that it would be sensible for the West to work to create a neutral Ukraine and in America's interest to bury this crisis as soon as possible. "It certainly would be in Russia's interest to do so and most importantly it would be in Ukraine's interest to put an end to the crisis." ** Full article: https://www.businesstoday.in/world/us/story/ukraine-going-to-be-wrecked-after-zelenskyy-trump-spat-john-mearsheimers-2015-prediction-goes-viral-466448-2025-03-03 Edited February 13 by Scott75 1 Quote
Nationalist Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 @Scott75 I believe the core issue so many have, including @User and the US State Department...and the Pentagon...is an intense hatred/fear of Russia. I also think this hatred/fear is actively reinforced by many in NATO, because they are after control of Russian resources. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Scott75 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Nationalist said: @Scott75 I believe the core issue so many have, including @User and the US State Department...and the Pentagon...is an intense hatred/fear of Russia. I also think this hatred/fear is actively reinforced by many in NATO, because they are after control of Russian resources. Agreed- it seems to be kind of schizophrenic though. I mean, if they had had a decent amount of fear of Russia's reaction to western involvement in the 2014 Euromaidan, perhaps they wouldn't have done what they did- that, in turn, may have meant that Russia would have felt no need to let Crimea rejoin Russia and we could have avoided a lot of trouble. Failing that, if western nations had at least taken the Minsk agreements seriously and encouraged Ukraine to follow them rather than to use them to simply strenghten Ukraine's military, or to "become stronger", as Angela Merkel later admitted, but no, they couldn't do that either. This arrogance was present all the way up to Russia's military intervention in Ukraine- As American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs put it in a speech he gave to European Parliament: ** At the end of 2021, Putin put on the table a last effort to reach a modus operandi with the U.S., in two security agreement drafts, one with Europe and one with the United States. He put the Russia-U.S. draft agreement on the table on Dec. 15, 2021. Following that, I had an hour-long call with [National Security Advisor] Jake Sullivan in the White House, begging, “Jake, avoid the war. You can avoid the war. All the U.S. has to do is say, ‘NATO will not enlarge to Ukraine.’” And he said to me, “Oh, NATO’s not going to enlarge to Ukraine. Don’t worry about it.” I said, “Jake, say it publicly.” “No. No. No. We can’t say it publicly.” I said, “Jake, you’re going to have a war over something that isn’t even going to happen?” He said, “Don’t worry, Jeff. There will be no war.” These are not very bright people. I’m telling you, if I can give you my honest view, they’re not very bright people. They talk to themselves. They don’t talk to anybody else. They play game theory. In noncooperative game theory, you don’t talk to the other side. You just make your strategy. This is the essence of non-cooperative game theory. It’s not negotiation theory. It’s not peacemaking theory. It is unilateral, noncooperative theory, if you know formal game theory. That’s what they play. That kind of game theory started [in application] at the RAND Corporation. That’s what they still play. In 2019, there’s a paper by RAND, “Extending Russia: Competing from Advantageous Ground.” Incredibly, the paper, in the public domain, asks how the U.S. should annoy, antagonize, and weaken Russia. That’s literally the strategy. We’re trying to provoke Russia, trying to make Russia break apart, perhaps have regime change, maybe unrest, maybe an economic crisis. That’s what you in Europe call your ally. So, there I was with my frustrating phone call with Sullivan, standing out in the freezing cold. I happened to be trying to have a ski day. “Oh, there’ll be no war, Jeff.” We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever. Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada. Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations. ** Full article: https://consortiumnews.com/2025/02/27/jeffrey-sachs-the-geopolitics-of-peace/ Edited February 13 by Scott75 1 Quote
John Stone Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) Russia today has no policy that denies them 'first use' re: nuclear theatre or greater, weapons. That's with the assumption being that, 'there is honor amongst thieves'. The squib that would trigger Russia's use of such weapons would be in defense of what they consider their territory. On 30 September 2022, Russia, amid an ongoing invasion of Ukraine, unilaterally declared its annexation of areas in and around four Ukrainian so-called, oblasts - Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia ..... a nod to Crimea. Just to be clear they consider this geo-conquest, Russian territory. Set piece battles generally favors the defense (WWI) - Russia is the aggressor and the attrition rate of it's own forces is appalling due to poor leadership, training, moral, losses, modern weapons. Putin's rhetoric: 'many of you may die, I am willing to accept your sacrifice'. Depending on the Midterms and negotiations following, Putin could very easily commit to tac nucs, in defense of the homeland. (aka annexed territory) As the World evolves into a new world order ........ China and the U.S. would concede to Russia's demand, for concessions of their own. Light the fuse, baby. Those that study history cannot fail to make a comparison to the Munich Agreement, 1938. Edited February 13 by John Stone Quote
Scott75 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 (edited) 32 minutes ago, John Stone said: Russia today has no policy that denies them 'first use' re: nuclear theatre or greater, weapons. That's with the assumption being that, 'there is honor amongst thieves'. The squib that would trigger Russia's use of such weapons would be in defense of what they consider their territory. On 30 September 2022, Russia, amid an ongoing invasion of Ukraine, unilaterally declared its annexation of areas in and around four Ukrainian so-called, oblasts - Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhzhia ..... a nod to Crimea. Just to be clear they consider this geo-conquest, Russian territory. Set piece battles generally favors the defense (WWI) - Russia is the aggressor and the attrition rate of it's own forces is appalling due to poor leadership, training, moral, losses, modern weapons. Putin's rhetoric: 'many of you may die, I am willing to accept your sacrifice'. Depending on the Midterms and negotiations following, Putin could very easily commit to tac nucs, in defense of the homeland. (aka annexed territory) As the World evolves into a new world order ........ China and the U.S. would concede to Russia's demand, for concessions of their own. Light the fuse, baby. Those that study history cannot fail to make a comparison to the Munich Agreement, 1938. As I've pointed out in previous posts here, this entire mess could have been avoided if the west, and especially the U.S., had listened to the likes of American Professors John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs. We can't turn back the clock, but we can at least learn from the past. There was a time early on during Russia's military intervention in Ukraine when Russia had said that it was prepared to leave Ukraine, with the exception of Crimea which it annexed back in 2014 after Crimeans voted overwhelming to rejoin Russia. There are article about it, including this one: https://www.fairobserver.com/world-news/the-wests-disastrous-decision-to-reject-peace-in-ukraine/ That time is over, in no small part because the 4 Ukrainian regions you brought up all had elections and all voted to join Russia as well. I'd heed what was apparently said by certain Russian diplomats after some fairly recent negotiations with Ukraine- the gist is that a Russian reporter asked if the next time there were negotiations, Russia would be demanding 5 regions instead of 4. The negotiators, perhaps partially in jest, but, I suspect, only partially said, "No, next time it will be 8". The Ukrainian people as a whole gain nothing by not beating a hasty path to the negotiating table. It's only the Ukrainian elites who would fall for following the primrose path laid out by the Americans. Edited February 13 by Scott75 1 Quote
User Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: @Scott75 I believe the core issue so many have, including @User and the US State Department...and the Pentagon...is an intense hatred/fear of Russia. I also think this hatred/fear is actively reinforced by many in NATO, because they are after control of Russian resources. You sit here fear-mongering about how Russia is going to start WWIII, but then say others have an intense hatred/fear of Russia. LOL Once again, I will point out, Russia is invading Ukraine right now. 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: We've already seen how the US responded to Venezuela doing business with China and Russia. What do you think would happen if China and Russia sent people to Canada and engineered an election win for pro Chinese and Russian stooges. Then imposed their languages and cultures on Canadians. The Canadians try to fight back and are attacked militarily by the Canadian military. Do you think the USA would stay out of it? Once again, you are lying about what happened in Ukraine. This is pure Russian propaganda that you are pushing to somehow justify their war, to all out full blown invade Ukraine. 1 Quote
Nationalist Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 27 minutes ago, User said: You sit here fear-mongering about how Russia is going to start WWIII, but then say others have an intense hatred/fear of Russia. LOL Yes. Im sorry you dont understand the danger of war between Russia and NATO. 30 minutes ago, User said: Once again, you are lying about what happened in Ukraine. This is pure Russian propaganda that you are pushing to somehow justify their war, to all out full blown invade Ukraine. Not a lie at all. Truth. Do you really think all the evidence and the bare facts surrounding The Green T-Shirt's election and the NATO operations to make it happen? Do you not find it interesting that, soon after campaigning for peace and unity, he then sent the Azov battalion to the eastern provinces to Crack down on ethnic Russians? He could have negotiated with these folks, I would think. Instead...he attacked. The Russian Ukrainians fought back. They begged Russia for help. Warnings were sent though diplomatic channels. They were ignored. So finally...the Russian Duma voted to attack. That...my friend...is what happened. I will concede 1 point. The Russians were repeatedly asked by the inhabitants of Crimea, to join Russia. So Russia moved in. That act was quite...provocative. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
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