Ukraine Can't Win the War

[athos]

 

New Yalta underway

 

[Videospirit]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/21/world/europe/ukraine-zelensky-minerals-peace.html

What are the odds that Zelensky offers the US access to resources in Russia occupied Ukraine and Trump sends in the U.S. army to kick Russia out so the US can access them?

[User]

19 hours ago, Moonbox said:

've already provided a substantial list of reasons why protestors outside of abortion clinics are problematic, and pretending that I haven't is a pretty clear indication of how deliberately dishonest you're being.  

Sure, all irrelevent to what we are actually talking about here. 

How is a dude standing there silently praying problematic? Problematic in such a way that you must criminalize what he is doing?

19 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I've already been over that, so pretending I ignored it is just more of your dishonesty.  The fact that I'm not going to keep circling back on the same useless points you're trying to make doesn't change that. 

No, you have not, which is why you did what you just did and reverted back to only arguing about standing too close to the abortion clinic again. 

 

[Videospirit]

Huh. I've a notification saying eyeball quoted me an hour ago but I don't see the post. Did they delete it?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

Huh. I've a notification saying eyeball quoted me an hour ago but I don't see the post. Did they delete it?

Inadvertently I guess. I'll try again...

On 2/19/2025 at 11:56 AM, Videospirit said:

I'm still not convinced he's loyal to Russia. He's just extremely and openly corrupt.

He's loyal to the values they share...venal self interest.

[Videospirit]

41 minutes ago, eyeball said:

He's loyal to the values they share...venal self interest.

Yeah, although that does mean he won't capitulate to Russia unconditionally. If his interests are served by opposing Russia he will. There's no ideological conviction to it and he could be back to supporting Russia the next day, but he can oppose Russia.

[athos]

When common sense speaks

 

[athos]

 

Zelensky's curse continues

 

[Videospirit]

On 2/22/2025 at 6:47 PM, athos said:

When common sense speaks

This guy is pretty biased. "You should disrespect the U.S. and capitulate to Russia." 

Not everything he says is without merit. Europe can definitely be a stronger polity than it has been on this matter. It doesn't need to follow the U.S. orders. But Europe doesn't need to roll over and capitulate to Russia. And his insistence that Russia lacks imperialist goals in its invasion of Ukraine is laughable.

[Scott75]

6 hours ago, Videospirit said:

This guy is pretty biased. "You should disrespect the U.S. and capitulate to Russia." 

I've looked through the transcript of athos' video- Sachs never says what you claim he says above. Here's what he -does- say, starting at at around the 11:30 point:

**

Europe has to open negotiations directly with Russia as well because the United States will quickly lose interest and you're going to be living with Russia for the next thousands of years okay so what do you want you want to make sure that the Baltic state states are secure the best thing for the Baltic states is to stop their russophobia this is the most important thing [snip]

**

For those who haven't seen the video athos' put up, it's here:

 

6 hours ago, Videospirit said:

And his insistence that Russia lacks imperialist goals in its invasion of Ukraine is laughable.

Do you have any evidence suggesting that Russia has imperialist goals in Ukraine?

[User]

6 hours ago, Scott75 said:

Do you have any evidence suggesting that Russia has imperialist goals in Ukraine?

Yeah, the fact that Russia tried to conquer them and is still doing so now. 

 

[Scott75]

5 hours ago, User said:

11 hours ago, Scott75 said:

Do you have any evidence suggesting that Russia has imperialist goals in Ukraine?

Yeah, the fact that Russia tried to conquer them and is still doing so now. 

i'd say you're confusing the U.S. with Russia. It was the U.S. that played an integral role in the Euromaidan coup back in 2014, not Russia. Russia certainly didn't take it lying down, by accepting Crimea's wish to rejoin Russia, but it's important to note what country started Ukraine's destabilization.

After annexing Crimea, Russia took no more Ukrainian territory for 8 years. During those 8 years, Ukraine engaged in a civil war with eastern Ukrainians. Do you know how that started? Perhaps more importantly, do you know what the Ukrainian military had begun to attack 8 days before Russia's military operation in Ukraine started 3 years ago today?

[athos]

19 hours ago, Videospirit said:

This guy is pretty biased. "You should disrespect the U.S. and capitulate to Russia." 

Not everything he says is without merit. Europe can definitely be a stronger polity than it has been on this matter. It doesn't need to follow the U.S. orders. But Europe doesn't need to roll over and capitulate to Russia. And his insistence that Russia lacks imperialist goals in its invasion of Ukraine is laughable.

Stop trolling with fake quotes. He didn't say that.

Edited February 25 by athos

[athos]

6 hours ago, User said:

Yeah, the fact that Russia tried to conquer them and is still doing so now. 

 

If you come to the door of my house and try to conquer my house, I would do the same as the Russians did.

[Moonbox]

On 2/22/2025 at 11:20 AM, User said:

How is a dude standing there silently praying problematic? Problematic in such a way that you must criminalize what he is doing?

Because he's not just silently praying.  It's a deliberate, overt protest, and the law restricts such activity within 100m of abortion clinics so that women feel say seeking their services.  Calling it "silent prayer" is a flimsy and transparent attempt at a loophole, and nobody reasonable is buying.  The Law is has very little time to spare this sort of nonsense, and that's why it gets dismissed.    

On 2/22/2025 at 11:20 AM, User said:

No, you have not, which is why you did what you just did and reverted back to only arguing about standing too close to the abortion clinic again. 

It's the same argument.  What do you figure is happening here? Are there are secret police, cameras and informers watching people's windows around abortion clinics, making sure that nobody is caught praying inside their homes?!? 

🤣🤣 🤣

[User]

5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Because he's not just silently praying.

Yes, he was. 

6 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

It's the same argument.  What do you figure is happening here? Are there are secret police, cameras and informers watching people's windows around abortion clinics, making sure that nobody is caught praying inside their homes?!? 

So, now your argument is that people may not notice... but if they do, then you are all for sending in the police to arrest them for it. 

As I have pointed out... they could be in their garden, yard, on their porch, or maybe you can see them in their window. All violations of the law you would be here cheering on their arrest for. 

 

[Moonbox]

17 minutes ago, User said:

Yes, he was. 

Directly in front of an abortion clinic, fully aware of the law that prohibits protesting within 100m of it and that the law views such activity as the obvious protest activity that it is.  

17 minutes ago, User said:

So, now your argument is that people may not notice... but if they do, then you are all for sending in the police to arrest them for it. 

Nope, that's not my argument at all!  🤣  It's kind of pathetic to see you spin this sort of nonsense when you're so often the guy that whines about other people being dishonest.  Here you are, brazenly and shamelessly making shit up!

My argument is that the law's purpose and intention is not to prohibit prayer, but to allow a safe area around abortion clinics where women don't have to worry about their privacy or about being harassed, among other things, by protestors.  

You've conjured up a clownworld fantasy where secret police and informers are waiting to pounce the moment they see something that might resemble prayer as folks go about their regular day.  It's retarded.  

Edited February 25 by Moonbox

[BeaverFever]

15 hours ago, Scott75 said:

i'd say you're confusing the U.S. with Russia. It was the U.S. that played an integral role in the Euromaidan coup back in 2014, not Russia. Russia certainly didn't take it lying down, by accepting Crimea's wish to rejoin Russia, but it's important to note what country started Ukraine's destabilization.

After annexing Crimea, Russia took no more Ukrainian territory for 8 years. During those 8 years, Ukraine engaged in a civil war with eastern Ukrainians. Do you know how that started? Perhaps more importantly, do you know what the Ukrainian military had begun to attack 8 days before Russia's military operation in Ukraine started 3 years ago today?

The US did not instigate the Euromaidan uprising

Crimea did not “wish to rejoin Russia”.

Russia orchestrated the 2014 civil war in the Donbas and the separatist fighters were in fact armed equipped and trained by Russia,  many of them were de-badged Russian army regulars or Wagner mercenaries sent by Russia.  

I can’t wait to find out what you think “the Ukrainian military had begun to attack” before Russia but I bet it’s more Putin Propaganda fake news 

Edited February 25 by BeaverFever

[User]

10 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Directly in front of an abortion clinic, fully aware of the law that prohibits protesting within 100m of it and that the law views such activity as the obvious protest activity that it is.  

OK, and?

Yes, we know he was arrested for doing it where he was doing it. That is why Vance pointed out the absurdity of this. 

11 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

My argument is that the law's purpose and intention is not to prohibit prayer, but to allow a safe area around abortion clinics where women don't have to worry about their privacy or about being harassed, among other things, by protestors.  

Yes, to allow a safe area by prohibiting not only prayer, but anything that can be construed as a protest. 

Yes, that is what Vance was mocking and rightly criticizing as infringement on freedom of speech. 

32 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

You've conjured up a clownworld fantasy where secret police and informers are waiting to pounce the moment they see something that might resemble prayer as folks go about their regular day.  It's retarded.  

That is exactly what happened to the guy praying outside the abortion clinic and you are cheering on. 

 

 

[User]

15 hours ago, Scott75 said:

i'd say you're confusing the U.S. with Russia. It was the U.S. that played an integral role in the Euromaidan coup back in 2014, not Russia. Russia certainly didn't take it lying down, by accepting Crimea's wish to rejoin Russia, but it's important to note what country started Ukraine's destabilization.

There was no coup in 2014 and the former government was a Russian puppet government. 

Russia did not "accept" Crimea's wish to rejoin Russia, they took advantage of the disarray in the Ukraine government and took it by force. 

15 hours ago, Scott75 said:

After annexing Crimea, Russia took no more Ukrainian territory for 8 years. During those 8 years, Ukraine engaged in a civil war with eastern Ukrainians. Do you know how that started? Perhaps more importantly, do you know what the Ukrainian military had begun to attack 8 days before Russia's military operation in Ukraine started 3 years ago today?

Russia was the one starting the shadow war in the Donbas. It was their equipment and they even sent their own damn military in there. 

 

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, User said:

Yes, to allow a safe area by prohibiting not only prayer, but anything that can be construed as a protest. 

The only purpose served for protesting that close to the abortion clinic was to protest, so why do you keep pretending it's just silent prayer?  LOL!  🤡

1 hour ago, User said:

Yes, that is what Vance was mocking and rightly criticizing as infringement on freedom of speech. 

You mean that he clownishly ranted about, as if pestering and hassling women within 100m of abortion clinics is the cardinal right that should be held above anything else!  Why?  You can't explain, but you'll do mental gymnastics to defend literally anything and everything that the Orange Buffoon and his sycophants say.  LOL!!!  🤡

1 hour ago, User said:

That is exactly what happened to the guy praying outside the abortion clinic and you are cheering on. 

No, it's not.  This is just you lying again, and doing mental backflips trying to reconcile the absurdity of your position.  As you know, this retarded donkey chose to protest in front of an abortion clinic, knowing it was prohibited, and spent two hours arguing with the officer who asked him to leave, before any action was taken against him.  It's truly a f*ck around find out moment!  🤣   

[User]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The only purpose served for protesting that close to the abortion clinic was to protest, so why do you keep pretending it's just silent prayer?  LOL!

Lovely strawman. Where is that all I have done?

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You mean that he clownishly ranted about, as if pestering and hassling women within 100m of abortion clinics is the cardinal right that should be held above anything else!  Why?  You can't explain, but you'll do mental gymnastics to defend literally anything and everything that the Orange Buffoon and his sycophants say.  LOL!!!  🤡

Yes, I can explain, it is called freedom of speech. You want to limit it because it makes you feel bad and in this case you don't want anyone or anything to possibly interfere with the wholesale slaughter of unborn children you support. 

I defend this, because I support free speech and I do not support all the efforts you leftists make in criminalizing people for daring to point out how awful it is to kill unborn children for the mere convenience of it. 

Hell, you folks on the left invent things to go after people for even when they didn't break any laws just to protect the abortion industry. 

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

No, it's not.  This is just you lying again, and doing mental backflips trying to reconcile the absurdity of your position.  As you know, this retarded donkey chose to protest in front of an abortion clinic, knowing it was prohibited, and spent two hours arguing with the officer who asked him to leave, before any action was taken against him.  It's truly a f*ck around find out moment!  🤣   

No lie. The only reason officers were there hassling him was because he was praying silently in protest. 

 

[athos]

7 hours ago, User said:

There was no coup in 2014 and the former government was a Russian puppet government. 

Russia did not "accept" Crimea's wish to rejoin Russia, they took advantage of the disarray in the Ukraine government and took it by force. 

Russia was the one starting the shadow war in the Donbas. It was their equipment and they even sent their own damn military in there. 

 

You lost the war, come to terms with it, you lost US elections. Now focus on damage control.

[User]

13 hours ago, athos said:

You lost the war, come to terms with it, you lost US elections. Now focus on damage control.

No war has been lost. 

 

[Moonbox]

17 hours ago, User said:

Lovely strawman. Where is that all I have done?

OOPS!? Short memory or something?  

17 hours ago, User said:

Yes, I can explain, it is called freedom of speech.

When you're being asked why the law is an unreasonable limit to free speech, not being able to do anything but circle back and tell us about freedom of speech is a pretty goofy answer.  👌