athos Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 43 minutes ago, -TSS- said: Such a shame that Canada is not a superpower because if it was the government of that superpower Canada would never let Ukraine down as there is a huge Ukrainian diaspora in Canada, Canada is spatially huge, culturally tiny and politically insignificant British Colony. Quote
Army Guy Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 4 hours ago, Moonbox said: "You can throw numbers around all you want..." 1.5 million men under arms, a large portion of whom (conscripts) are forbidden by Russian Law to be sent to the front lines. North Korean troops fighting in Russia tells us they are not sustaining their horrendous losses, as is the fact they're barely nudging the front line forward despite the casualties. Regardless, the Russian war chest was $117B to start the war. It was down to $35 billion by the end of December. At the current pace, it's gone by mid-late summer, at which point the Russian people will start feeling its costs directly and acutely. Maybe I'm naive and can't actually believe they're willing to go back to North Korean/Soviet style military economy, but the cowed servility of the average Russian donkey-person is hard to underestimate now. Numbers don't lie, they are simply facts... That's not true, Russia brings in conscripts twice a year, 100,000 each time, according to my sources...most of the time the are placed watching the border, and yes they have been in combat when Ukraine invaded the kurst district...You talk about laws, Putin's makes his own laws...as mentioned in the article...And yet they are taking ground.... I really hope so, because this war is a huge waste of manpower and resources...But Now that trump is now talking about peace treaties and such who knows what is going to happen...But without US direct support, russia will not have to wait long for ukraine to collapse... https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/16/europe/russia-putin-war-ukraine-intl-latam/index.html Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
-TSS- Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 56 minutes ago, athos said: Canada is spatially huge, culturally tiny and politically insignificant British Colony. Hey Igor: I know that your language in Russia is apart from being ugly it is also retarded but civilized languages have the form where you can say that what if something is even though in reality it isn't. That was what I meant with my reference with Canada being a superpower. In Canada there are so many Ukrainians that the Canadian government would never dare to propose a peace-deal which Trump is proposing. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Numbers don't lie, they are simply facts... I'm just quoting you back to yourself. NATO's combined economies dwarf Russia's. Spending 1.7-2% of their GDP, EU members are spending the same amount as Russia, who currently commits ~7% of theirs (and over 40% of their government's budget). The point? NATO can fund this war forever and never even feel it. They could drown Ukraine in arms and overwhelm Russia economically with any sort of actual commitment, and the average taxpayer would hardly notice. We spend far more money on far stupider things than countering aggressive and dangerous dictatorships, and just like the Soviet Union bankrupted itself trying to keep up, NATO could do the same to Putin. These too, are simple facts. 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: That's not true, Russia brings in conscripts twice a year, 100,000 each time, according to my sources...most of the time the are placed watching the border, and yes they have been in combat when Ukraine invaded the kurst district...You talk about laws, Putin's makes his own laws...as mentioned in the article...And yet they are taking ground.... It's 100% true. That's why there aren't 1,000,000 Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine. It's why North Korea and other allies have had to send troops/volunteers. It's why Russia had to empty prisons, why its MoD needs to coerce or bully unwilling conscripts to sign (often fraudulent) contracts, offering rapidly increases bribes and bonuses that they are eventually not even going to be able to afford. You're right that Putin obeys or disregards laws at it suits him, but even that has limits. Popular support for his invasion hinges on his ability to insulate the big cities from its affects, but he can only draw from the poorest margins of society for so long, and only as long as he can keep it quiet. Edited February 15 by Moonbox Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Army Guy Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: I'm just quoting you back to yourself. NATO's combined economies dwarf Russia's. Spending 1.7-2% of their GDP, EU members are spending the same amount as Russia, who currently commits ~7% of theirs (and over 40% of their government's budget). The point? NATO can fund this war forever and never even feel it. They could drown Ukraine in arms and overwhelm Russia economically with any sort of actual commitment, and the average taxpayer would hardly notice. We spend far more money on far stupider things than countering aggressive and dangerous dictatorships, and just like the Soviet Union bankrupted itself trying to keep up, NATO could do the same to Putin. These too, are simple facts. It's 100% true. That's why there aren't 1,000,000 Russian soldiers fighting in Ukraine. It's why North Korea and other allies have had to send troops/volunteers. It's why Russia had to empty prisons, why its MoD needs to coerce or bully unwilling conscripts to sign (often fraudulent) contracts, offering rapidly increases bribes and bonuses that they are eventually not even going to be able to afford. You're right that Putin obeys or disregards laws at it suits him, but even that has limits. Popular support for his invasion hinges on his ability to insulate the big cities from its affects, but he can only draw from the poorest margins of society for so long, and only as long as he can keep it quiet. I'm not disputing that, however NATO's economies are not set up for war, or serious military campaign, they lack military industrial complex's that are on the same scale as Russia's...Want a 5 th generation fighter jet there are currently very limited choices...and production lines are full for many years from now, look at our purchase of F-35's so while we are rich we are not producing enough war materials....atlest not to scale. or what we would need in time for a major conflict.... Sure NATO can fund anything it wants, Right now NATO is focused on building their own militaries....which has backlogged also every military manufacture there is...for years...take a look at the leopard tanks there is a two year waiting list, and very few plants capable of production, of complete tanks...same as most military equipment... Yes it could drown ukraine in arms, the question is why aren't they ? The fact that NATO could easily overwhelm Russia but decides not to is a red flag when they talk about the importance of not letting Ukraine fall to the Russians...but give Ukraine only what is needed to maintain life support... Have you seen any of the Russian media coverage, to them they are winning this war....they are also at war with NATO already....Putin is painting an entirely different picture than reality is...and to some extent so is western media... Russia increases it's defense spending by another 25 % https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-hikes-national-defence-spending-by-23-2025-2024-09-30/ Edited February 15 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Moonbox Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: I'm not disputing that, however NATO's economies are not set up for war, or serious military campaign, they lack military industrial complex's that are on the same scale as Russia's...Want a 5 th generation fighter jet there are currently very limited choices...and production lines are full for many years from now, look at our purchase of F-35's so while we are rich we are not producing enough war materials....atlest not to scale. or what we would need in time for a major conflict.... NATO economies don't need to be set up for war. They just need to be scaled up to 2-3% of GDP, which would easily outproduce Russia's fully-mobilized war economy. In a year, they basically erased Russia's artillery shell advantage from 10:1 to near-parity, and that was without breaking a sweat. Meanwhile, Russia is fully-committed and running out of money... 14 hours ago, Army Guy said: Have you seen any of the Russian media coverage, to them they are winning this war....they are also at war with NATO already....Putin is painting an entirely different picture than reality is...and to some extent so is western media... Yes, the donkey-people in Russia believe everything the man says, but he's also been able to insulate them from the war's effects. In Moscow and St. Petersburg, they have no idea what's going on. In the far-east and the Caucuses, the dirt-poor hinterlands where most of the recruits are coming from, they know better. Either way, when the piggy-bank runs out later this year, Russia's everywhere will start to feel it. The real question is whether Trump throws Ukraine under the bus, as folks have suspected he would all along. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 On 2/14/2025 at 9:38 AM, SpankyMcFarland said: Trump has already given away Ukraine’s territorial integrity and NATO membership before negotiations start. Some negotiator! Then Vance dresses down his NATO allies. Who is America’s enemy here? Another lie. Trump did not do any of these things. 19 hours ago, -TSS- said: Such a shame that Canada is not a superpower because if it was the government of that superpower Canada would never let Ukraine down as there is a huge Ukrainian diaspora in Canada, They don't need to be a superpower to keep pumping billions into Ukraine and to send more armaments or to have already built their own munitions plants to supply Ukraine. Quote
Videospirit Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 Canada started making plans to up their ammo production in 2022. It wasn't until September 2024 that we started really seeing results though. Kind of took our sweet time, but it's definitely happening now. Over the next two years western military production in general should rise quite a bit just from the commitments that have already passed the planning stages even if the war ended today. Ukraine isn't going to have to worry about materiel going forward unless the west stops supporting it or their consumption suddenly massively increases. Quote
Videospirit Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 1 hour ago, User said: They don't need to be a superpower to keep pumping billions into Ukraine and to send more armaments or to have already built their own munitions plants to supply Ukraine. Yeah, Canada has a bigger economy than Russia does. We're not a trivial ally for Ukraine to have. Quote
-TSS- Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 I watched Vance's speech and I don't understand the controversy about it. There was not a single word I would disagree with him what he said. It is easy to understand the mindset of Americans regarding Europeans. We Europeans are mostly a bunch of whining babies living under the protective umbrella of the Americans. When things are easy it is common for us to say that we are so much older countries and nations and therefore we are so much more sophisticated than those stupid American yokels. We also feel the need to advise Americans how to run their country concerning things like health-care, abortion etc as if we knew better. But when things get tough we whine like little children for help that Americans come and save us from whatever Hitler or Putin is going to overrun us. Happily I can say that Finland is an exception and so is Poland regarding military-spending. If every European country was like Finland and Poland there wouldn't be any problem. 1 Quote
Moonbox Posted February 15 Report Posted February 15 Vance made a clown out of himself in that speech, like he usually does. Just because he's not 100% wrong about everything doesn't change that. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 4 hours ago, Moonbox said: Vance made a clown out of himself in that speech, like he usually does. Just because he's not 100% wrong about everything doesn't change that. Sure, just a partisan snipe with no real substance. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 2 hours ago, User said: Sure, just a partisan snipe with no real substance. Naw dog. He straight-up clowned himself, and nobody who listened to it who wasn't already drinking the Kool-Aid did anything but laugh or cringe. Folks living near abortion clinics aren't allowed to pray in their own homes, yup yup. 🤣 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 3 hours ago, Moonbox said: Naw dog. He straight-up clowned himself, and nobody who listened to it who wasn't already drinking the Kool-Aid did anything but laugh or cringe. Folks living near abortion clinics aren't allowed to pray in their own homes, yup yup. 🤣 Naw dog, you are straight up making partisan hack generalizations, no specifics, because that is what folks drinking the left-wing Kool-Aid do yo. Totes cringe fo show. In reality Vance mentioned Adam Smith-Connor who was in fact punished for merely standing near an abortion clinic and silently praying. Vance also mentioned a letter sent to people who lived near abortion clinics... and in fact they were sent a letter, it appears you guys want to quibble over it being in their home when it is still just as outrageously stupid to tell them they can't be seen from their own property. But of course, anytime someone on the right mentions the holy and sacred cow of abortion to the left, you guys completely melt down in outrage. Must not stop or interfere with your killing millions of unborn babies every year. "Letters sent out to people living within safe access zones stressed that residents should not do anything that could be seen or heard from the zone, such as displaying posters or banners, or protesting in their garden." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c87d9j17pjqo Quote
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 This was all in the news last year... the letter was real, the fear was real: Praying at home may be illegal under Scots abortion law, campaigners fear Residents told that being on private property is no bar to prosecution under new legislation https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/02/14/adam-smith-connor-abortion-campaigner-jd-vance/ Quote
Videospirit Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 9 hours ago, User said: This was all in the news last year... the letter was real, the fear was real: Praying at home may be illegal under Scots abortion law, campaigners fear Residents told that being on private property is no bar to prosecution under new legislation https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2025/02/14/adam-smith-connor-abortion-campaigner-jd-vance/ Well, it's true that people were concerned that private prayer may be illegal under the law, but it isn't and no one has ever been prosecuted for praying privately since it was passed, and the vice president of the united states has access to the resources to know whether or not that was the case before opening his intellectually challenged mouth, so he has no excuse to justify spreading misinformation. 9 hours ago, User said: In reality Vance mentioned Adam Smith-Connor who was in fact punished for merely standing near an abortion clinic and silently praying. He was punished for refusing to leave after being asked to do so by those with the authority to ask him to do so. His performative silent prayer vigil was the reason he was asked to leave, but he wasn't punished because of it, but because he refused to comply with the request. 10 hours ago, User said: "Letters sent out to people living within safe access zones stressed that residents should not do anything that could be seen or heard from the zone, such as displaying posters or banners, or protesting in their garden." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c87d9j17pjqo Now, this is a slightly more controversial issue. Especially for the psychos living in the U.S. who feel that bullying someone into suicide should be protected under freedom of speech. Private prayer is not in any way restricted, as the bbc article you linked clearly explains. But publicly holding a prayer vigil on your own private property as an act of intimidation is the kind of thing such psychos would try and claim as private prayer, when it clearly is not. Local legislators in Scotland are pretty reasonable about this, and saw that people's health was being jeopardized by such actions and took action to protect them, passing the legislation with overwhelming support, but many citizens of the united states of america don't have the same level of respect for human rights that the rest of the west has, so they want to be legally allowed to harass people. Quote
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 13 minutes ago, Videospirit said: Well, it's true that people were concerned that private prayer may be illegal under the law, but it isn't and no one has ever been prosecuted for praying privately since it was passed, and the vice president of the united states has access to the resources to know whether or not that was the case before opening his intellectually challenged mouth, so he has no excuse to justify spreading misinformation. Except, we have an example here of someone being arrested for just that. The letter is anything but clear and is clearly threatening. No misinformation here, and besides, this is a pretty dumb argument in whole. Was there a safe zone act passed that punishes people for things that would be clearly deemed protected free speech in America? Yes. Was a letter sent to people threatening them with legal actions? Yes Have people been punished for standing silently in prayer? Yes. Does this law prevent people from engaging in basis free speech practices on their own property? Yes. But... you want to nitpick on if they can pray in their own homes... like there is no underlying truth to the point here. What if they pray in their garden? What if they pray in their window with the blinds open? You see, this is not so dumb or misinformation after all. 18 minutes ago, Videospirit said: He was punished for refusing to leave after being asked to do so by those with the authority to ask him to do so. His performative silent prayer vigil was the reason he was asked to leave, but he wasn't punished because of it, but because he refused to comply with the request. This is a woefully dishonest argument. Why was he asked to leave? Because he was standing there in silent prayer. 18 minutes ago, Videospirit said: Now, this is a slightly more controversial issue. Especially for the psychos living in the U.S. who feel that bullying someone into suicide should be protected under freedom of speech. Private prayer is not in any way restricted, as the bbc article you linked clearly explains. But publicly holding a prayer vigil on your own private property as an act of intimidation is the kind of thing such psychos would try and claim as private prayer, when it clearly is not. Bullying someone? You are here supporting a law threatening people for basic free speech stuff in their own homes on their own property. Yeah, you and those pushing this law are the bullies. You are the ones supporting intimidation. Can't let anything or anyone interfere with the holy sacrament of slaughtering innocent unborn children. 20 minutes ago, Videospirit said: Local legislators in Scotland are pretty reasonable about this There is nothing reasonable about this and that is exactly why Vance called them out for it. Quote
Videospirit Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 13 minutes ago, User said: Except, we have an example here of someone being arrested for just that. I'm not going to even bother reading the rest of your post when your first sentence is an outright lie without the slightest trace of truthfulness. Quote
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 2 minutes ago, Videospirit said: I'm not going to even bother reading the rest of your post when your first sentence is an outright lie without the slightest trace of truthfulness. Literally not a lie. Adam Smith Connor, arrested for praying silently too close to an abortion clinic. Praying man breached abortion clinic safe zone "The court was told he had been praying for his unborn son, who he said died from abortion 22 years ago." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo Quote
Videospirit Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 Just now, User said: Literally not a lie. Adam Smith Connor, arrested for praying silently too close to an abortion clinic. Praying man breached abortion clinic safe zone "The court was told he had been praying for his unborn son, who he said died from abortion 22 years ago." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g9kp7r00vo He was arrested because he refused to leave when asked. What he was doing there was irrelevant to the arrest beyond the fact it was making people uncomfortable and they wanted him gone. If he'd just complied with the request no charges would have come to him. His prayer itself was not what caused him to be punished, and it was explicitly explained to you in the post you responded to with your outright lies, that you continue to double down on. Quote
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, Videospirit said: He was arrested because he refused to leave when asked. What he was doing there was irrelevant to the arrest beyond the fact it was making people uncomfortable and they wanted him gone. If he'd just complied with the request no charges would have come to him. His prayer itself was not what caused him to be punished, and it was explicitly explained to you in the post you responded to with your outright lies, that you continue to double down on. Try again. Also, that is only a secondary charge either way, because they were only asking him to leave BECAUSE of his silent prayer. "The defendant was charged under the Public Spaces Protection Order (PSPO), a broad censorship order that localities can issue under a 2014 law to curb “anti-social behavior.”" https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/oct/18/adam-smith-connor-convicted-in-uk-of-thought-crime/ Quote
Videospirit Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 8 minutes ago, User said: Try again. Also, that is only a secondary charge either way, because they were only asking him to leave BECAUSE of his silent prayer. Yes, his silent prayer was making people uncomfortable, so they asked him to leave, he could be blasting rock music at 100 decibels or painting passerby without their permission, the issue was he refused to go elsewhere once people started getting bothered by him. How does that translate to "Try again." If I walked into the Oval Office and started praying on the Presidents Desk I'd be arrested, my reason for being there doesn't matter. I don't have permission to be there. The U.S. absolutely would arrest me if they didn't just outright murder me "just for trying to pray silently." This is no different. He didn't have permission to be there and refused to leave, and that's why he was punished. Quote
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 Just now, Videospirit said: This is no different. He didn't have permission to be there and refused to leave, and that's why he was punished. Yes, as I have said over and over again and you keep falsely calling me a liar for. He was arrested and punished for standing near an abortion clinic and silently praying. To the point, you are here trying to argue that letter to people in their own homes should not be taken as a threat to do the same thing to them, when we have an example of it happening already. This was a public area people are free to be in, not the inside of one of the most heavily guarded and restricted entry areas in the world. You are not being a serious person here at all. Quote
Videospirit Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 Just now, User said: Yes, as I have said over and over again and you keep falsely calling me a liar for. He was arrested and punished for standing near an abortion clinic and silently praying. To the point, you are here trying to argue that letter to people in their own homes should not be taken as a threat to do the same thing to them, when we have an example of it happening already. This was a public area people are free to be in, not the inside of one of the most heavily guarded and restricted entry areas in the world. You are not being a serious person here at all. It wasn't a public area people are free to be in, it was a designated PSPO zone restricted area. You are not being a serious person here at all. Quote
User Posted February 16 Report Posted February 16 13 minutes ago, Videospirit said: It wasn't a public area people are free to be in, it was a designated PSPO zone restricted area. You are not being a serious person here at all. Um, no. All that zone means is that you can’t do things like silently pray. People are still free to walk along the sidewalks, drive, bike, stand around and gossip about life and things… It isn’t some fenced off zone that no one is allowed to enter. To the point here again, it’s basically a zone restricting speech or even silent prayer. Now why would people worry about that in their own homes on their own property when they got threatening letters? Gee… so hard to figure out. Vance was telling the truth and his point was sound. You just don’t like it and fully support these draconian laws because heaven forbid anyone get in the way of slaughtering unborn babies. Quote
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