Liberals and New Democrats reach a deal on pharmacare

[herbie]

6 hours ago, Legato said:

That's an extremely large would have never happened dose of wishful thinking.

Only for someone who doesn't live in Sask, Man or BC.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

...the CPC will get their easy majority.

I expect so too. Hanging onto it for one term will be one thing after that anything is possible.  We need immediate solutions to acute problems.  Seducing the canine and complaining about the mess that was inherited is not going to be a lasting option.

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Jaghmeet Singh is a cinderblock anchored to the NDP, and whatever accomplishments he figures he can brag about with pharma and dental, he's still a lousy public speaker, he's still wearing a turban, and he still spent the last number of years propping up the Liberal government. 

That may well be so however the fact remains that more Canadians have benefited from having a minority Liberal government in charge than they would have if Liberals had been in the majority.

This is a point that I'd like to see a future NDP leader make - that minority governments are better.  There's no reason why the NDP shouldn't be able to work with a Conservative party, especially if it cleaves more towards the working stiff.

[Moonbox]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That may well be so however the fact remains that more Canadians have benefited from having a minority Liberal government in charge than they would have if Liberals had been in the majority.

This is a point that I'd like to see a future NDP leader make - that minority governments are better. 

Minority governments are better sometimes, and then sometimes they're not.  The NDP spent the recent years enabling bad Liberal policy.  "Bb-b-but dental plan" isn't much of a counterweight, because that's just extra emphasis on their biggest failing (spending).  

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

"Bb-b-but dental plan" isn't much of a counterweight, because that's just extra emphasis on their biggest failing (spending).

But still better than nothing to millions of Canadians.

Who's biggest spending failings, Liberals?  That was obvious the first time it was reported the wealth gap increased on their watch. But of course this is more due to a failure of taxation.

[Moonbox]

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

But still better than nothing to millions of Canadians.

and does nothing for the vast majority.  I'm not saying I disagree with it, but borrowing and spending with abandon is easy.  

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Who's biggest spending failings, Liberals?  That was obvious the first time it was reported the wealth gap increased on their watch. But of course this is more due to a failure of taxation.

Of course it's the Liberals, but overspending on frivolity and the worthless enlargement of our public sector bureaucracy (with zero improvements in service levels) has nothing to do with taxation.  

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Nazis...I guess that's code for seriously is it?

Bwahahaha!!

Oh dear - are we trying to deflect from the fact you were wrong nnd have no answer?  LOL

Pathetic.  If you're going to run and hide from me rather than just admit you were wrong at least put a bit of effort in

Anyway - as much as you'd like to talk about something else the fact remains:  Jagmeet owns a healthy share of everything that's happened that's bad since he formed the coalition with the libs and that simply isn't offset by the tiny amount of good he's tried to do (that isn't working).

Left wing politics simply don't work, and this has always been the result in canada - a lowering of quality of life, tough economic times, less prestige on the world stage and the flight of business investment.  Vote woke go broke.

[eyeball]

49 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I'm not saying I disagree with it, but borrowing and spending with abandon is easy.  

Of course it's the Liberals, but overspending on frivolity and the worthless enlargement of our public sector bureaucracy (with zero improvements in service levels) has nothing to do with taxation.  

It's only spent with abandon and frivolity because there's no transparency or accountability.

And of course these also have something to with how, who and what is taxed.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Oh dear - are we trying to deflect from the fact you were wrong nnd have no answer?

Nope, I'm just laughing my ass off at your ridiculous references to Nazis.

Even reading past them never mind addressing anything else you might have to say is pointless.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Nope, I'm just laughing my ass off at your ridiculous references to Nazis.

 

So then yes you're just desperately trying to deflect from the fact you were wrong

Or are you saying hitler was in fact a great person because he did a few nice things

You claimed that because Jagmeet tried to do something good that somehow he's been good for canada and as i've shown someone can do something good and still be very very bad overall. And obviously the truth of that statement has left you unable to argue the point - so you do this instead.

It's just so pathetic. You on the left are so freaking fragile that if you're faced with a truth you don't like you lose your teeny tiny little minds.

I guess it's true what they say, that people on the left are more prone to mental illness.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Or are you saying hitler was...

I'm saying you're a retarded chud.

[Moonbox]

54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm saying you're a retarded chud.

He couldn't even get to page 2 of the thread before he busted out the Hitler comparison.  Amazing.  🤣

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I'm saying you're a retarded chud.

Ooops -  lol another leftie melt down   

Awwww poor guy - you go have your cookie and your nap, you'll be fine  

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

He couldn't even get to page 2 of the thread before he busted out the Hitler comparison.  Amazing.  🤣

And as predicted you're following me like a puppy trying desperately to make yourself feel better for having looked the fool again   LOL -  man the 'cdnfox made me cry' club meets pretty regular these days  

And i note that just like Eyeball you couldn't find anything wrong with the comparison....  pretty good one so that's no surprise. Your only complaint is where it appears   LOL

Enjoy your hissy fit.     I know I always do    Cheers!

[SpankyMcFarland]

Advanced countries in Europe can afford universal pharmacare programs. It’s about time we started down that track. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Advanced countries in Europe can afford universal pharmacare programs. It’s about time we started down that track. 

Advanced countries in europe have a dual public private health model. You can't compare two completely different things and then say they should be similar.

And most provinces HAVE a universal pharmacare program already.

[SpankyMcFarland]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Advanced countries in europe have a dual public private health model. You can't compare two completely different things and then say they should be similar.

We have arrived there too in our typically chaotic way. A lot of procedures and drugs are paid for by patients and employers already. BTW Europe’s systems have many differences among themselves. 
 

 

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And most provinces HAVE a universal pharmacare program already.

Really? A single universal program? What I see in my province is a higgeldy-piggedly mess of plans that have ‘just growed’ over time. Just in terms of negotiating prices with the drug companies, we’d be better off doing it as one group. 

[CdnFox]

46 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We have arrived there too in our typically chaotic way. A lot of procedures and drugs are paid for by patients and employers already. BTW Europe’s systems have many differences among themselves. 

IT's not even remotely close to the same thing even a little bit.  And the fact that there are other differences doesn't help your argument

Consider france's system for example.

 

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Really? A single universal program? What I see in my province is a higgeldy-piggedly mess of plans that have ‘just growed’ over time. Just in terms of negotiating prices with the drug companies, we’d be better off doing it as one group. 

Sure, a single universal program.  BC does.  And if its something that the people of that province want more of they could easily have expanded it.

And single purchase seems logical in the short run, but it can easily lead to less drug research in the long run.  You get about the same benefit with fewer problems long term with provincial buying.

And what happens now is that the feds will tax more to 'pay' for it and then refuse to share the money with the provinces. Look at 'universal' health care - the feds were suppsoed to pay for 50 percent. That's not happening anymore but they still collect the taxes for it.  And how's our health system going? We actually did better back in the day when each province provided it's own version.

This is just one more thing the feds are going to wind up taxing for and then starving later. I do believe that if we're going to have public health care then medication coverage of some sort is appropriate especially for the most common ailments such as diabetes etc.  but this just wasn't a good plan, it's been rushed and i doubt it'll work like they want it to and it'll just be a mess. Like most programs Justin has had his hands on.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Advanced countries in Europe can afford universal pharmacare programs. It’s about time we started down that track. 

Although before we venture out on other social programs perhaps we could tweak the ones we already have...i big one for me is health care...ours is one huge wreck...here in NB we have had well over 4 people die in waiting rooms to see a doctor...waiting times are well over 24 hours...you leave and you lose your spot...ever sit in a small plastic chair for 24 hours...only 1/2 the people have family doctors so you want your prescription renewed you wait your turn...And NB is not the only province with problems...it is across the nation...lets fix that then move on to dental, and pharma..

[SpankyMcFarland]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

IT's not even remotely close to the same thing even a little bit.  And the fact that there are other differences doesn't help your argument

Consider france's system for example.

We really do have a private health care sector in this country whether we like it or not. And it’s only going to get bigger. A friend of mine just paid a lot of money for the King Charles treatment in another province. 

 

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 

Sure, a single universal program.  BC does.  And if its something that the people of that province want more of they could easily have expanded it.

But does that cover the entire cost of drugs in BC? Do some people out there not claim they are struggling with those bills? It doesn’t sound like a universal program to me. 

Edited February 26, 2024 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We really do have a private health care sector in this country whether we like it or not. And it’s only going to get bigger. A friend of mine just paid a lot of money for the King Charles treatment in another province.

It exists in the shadows and yes crossing provincial lines solves some of the 'legal' issues but in no way do we have it as a part of our planned health system. We have 'loophole' third party medicine.

That may change but right now that's how it is.

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But does that cover the entire cost of drugs in BC? Do some people out there not claim they are struggling with those bills? It doesn’t sound like a universal program to me. 

Most drugs. Remember this federal one won't cover all drugs either.

There's a 'deductible' but it's based on income so it's nothing for the poor and about 3000 bucks for someone earning 75 grand a year.  Now -that USED to be ok before trudeau's inflation turned 75 grand into a pittance but that's another story

So yeah it's pretty universal and covers a lot of medications.  SO what trudeau's plan will do will be to reduce the amount paid by working people a little, and do nothing for the poorer or those on plans like me. All my diabetes meds are covered by the province, but because i have my own plan that doesn't have a deductible i go with that.

We'll see i guess - the devil is in the details and the implementation but looking at the dentist and daycare plans and how they've been doing i'm not outrageously optimistic that this is going to turn out to be much of a benefit.

 

 

[herbie]

It really says something about you if the govt is proposing a way to make prescriptions more affordable and you're against it.

Are you so damn wealthy it doesn't matter to you?
Are you simply a jerk that doesn't want someone else to benefit?
Or are you an combination jerk that is willing to pay more than you have to just to ensure not one penny of it benefits someone else?

Or a hypocrite bawling about govt inaction on food and shelter but the deficit is more important than health?

Or a Danielle Smith with only one anti-Ottawa song in your head and nothing else?

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, herbie said:

It really says something about you if the govt is proposing a way to make prescriptions more affordable and you're against it.

It says you'd like to see the details    it's completely ignorant to suggest that just because a gov't SAYS something will be good it automatically is.

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Are you so damn wealthy it doesn't matter to you?

Sure - and the vast majority of Canadians are.  They have coverage through their work or association. Most people have coverage. Poor people have it through different programs. there are a handful of people who will benefit from this and that's great but if it's done in a very unaffordable way then that's a problem.

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Are you simply a jerk that doesn't want someone else to benefit?

Sure - that's why people question gov't programs.  If you don't blindly accept what the gov't is doing you hate people and are a 'jerk'.

Hey - while you're up there anyway take a look at your colon and make sure it's in good shape.

 

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Or are you an combination jerk that is willing to pay more than you have to just to ensure not one penny of it benefits someone else?

Have you seen any analysis of this that suggests we're going to pay less? I haven't. I suspect this is going to be a bit expensive actually. You realize where the gov't gets it's money from right?

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Or a hypocrite bawling about govt inaction on food and shelter but the deficit is more important than health?

Sorry kiddo - you can be concerned about one or two or all of those things without being  a hypocrite.  And i woudl distrust a gov't "solution" to "provide housing" as well without seeing the details.

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Or a Danielle Smith with only one anti-Ottawa song in your head and nothing else?

Sure. I'm danielle smith.  Boo!   

[herbie]

None of you are dumb enough to think the Libs did the bare minimum to meet the agreement to keep NDP support and that anything actual will happen without their re-election.

M.O.F. should they win a majority, things will proceed at a glacial pace regardless without the NDP booting them in the arse.
Whereas if the Tories win, they'll swallow the distaste and public anger in stride and can it; that's their policy and platform. Besides, with them cutting off the very revenue sources that funds them they'll go back to cut, slash and RAISE income tax on the middle class.

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We really do have a private health care sector in this country whether we like it or not. And it’s only going to get bigger. A friend of mine just paid a lot of money for the King Charles treatment in another province. 

 

But does that cover the entire cost of drugs in BC? Do some people out there not claim they are struggling with those bills? It doesn’t sound like a universal program to me. 

Here's jagmeet admitting this is basically a birth control and diabetes bill and if you want more than that you'll need an election

Those are both being covered right now in bc. Contraceptives are free for anyone and diabetes is covered under that pharmacare plan i mentioned.

This deal was worth nothing.

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, herbie said:

It really says something about you if the govt is proposing a way to make prescriptions more affordable and you're against it.

Are you so damn wealthy it doesn't matter to you?
Are you simply a jerk that doesn't want someone else to benefit?
Or are you an combination jerk that is willing to pay more than you have to just to ensure not one penny of it benefits someone else?

Or a hypocrite bawling about govt inaction on food and shelter but the deficit is more important than health?

Or a Danielle Smith with only one anti-Ottawa song in your head and nothing else?

The key wording here is some prescription, and only to those that qualify...we have yet to hear the cost to see if it is affordable...

i see you have bought into the lying...lets find out what it is going to cost first...if it is like dental it is going to be to much and serve very little canadians...