myata Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 27 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: I suggest you are out of your depth again (nothing new there, who knew?). Do not ever play poker. Stick to the lottery instead. So bullshit. But of course, and what else, brought to you (again) by brain-dead logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 5 hours ago, myata said: So bullshit. But of course, and what else, brought to you (again) by brain-dead logic. You and the other clod @I am Groot may attack me all you want, no one is here to stop you. But since you have nothing else to say, cannot refute my steely logic and the real facts, links I graciously provide, only make yourselves look like weak-minded fools. Up to you. That is why I say to you people, I say, away little boys. I have no time to play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 (edited) 7 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Sure, that's apparent if you are a one-dimensional thinker. Another interpretation is, these are the threats he made to direlect Nato members who haven't lived up to their committments. It came at a time when Russia was clearly mobilizing their resources to prepare for the full-scale attack, and was a crucial time for Nato members to step up. As a result of these threats, Trump forced them to pony up, boosting Nato support by, as Stoltenberg himself said at the time, $100 Billion, and more to come. Get it now? Of course, the bought media seeks to turn everything he says around into an attack on him, and it works especially to those who don't know the history of what actually took place in 2019. Always happy to help you people get caught up to the issue. "ffs..." No, he is saying to Putin, fill your boots because maybe I'll do nothing. Putin has forced them to pony up because of his invasion. Poland isn't increasing its defence spending to 4% GDP because of something Trump said, neither has Germany doubled its spending because of something Trump said. Finland and Sweden aren't joining NATO because of something Trump said. All of this happened after Putin invaded Ukraine. Edited February 13 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Aristides said: No, he is saying to Putin, fill your boots because maybe I'll do nothing. Putin has forced them to pony up because of his invasion. Poland isn't increasing its defence spending to 4% GDP because of something Trump said, neither has Germany doubled its spending because of something Trump said. Finland and Sweden aren't joining NATO because of something Trump said. All of this happened after Putin invaded Ukraine. No, yes, no, yes. 🤷♂️ You are of course entitled to an opinion. Not much can really be proven empirically these days, in a world so full of lies and political intrigue, especially now with the internet. At least, in the good old days the state's propaganda and lies were printed in books that people could buy and keep on their shelves. Now, is but a matter of a few mouse clicks and history can be conveniently 'adjusted'. All that leaves us with are our memories, some clues, and the use of logic. Which many are sorely lacking... You claim they are not increasing their spending due to the efforts of Trump, but I have shown that already. Three links. Two from Nato.org and one from CNN. Remember? 2019 ffs? Probably not. I do remember because I posted them originally here in this forum IN 2019, and I can show you that too if need be. More about the actual logic of it though. The leaders of Nato knew through their information channels that Russia was building up toward a full-scale invasion. They were well aware of it in those days. That is why Trump used his bully pulpit to force them to man-up and meet their obligations. We all should be well aware that many Nato countries did not meet the commitments they signed on to, Canada included. Trump told them that the US is not obligated to rescue them if Putin were to attack, unless they do set aside the money. Result- what Jens Stoltenberg said at the time. I don't see much in that story that is debatable or controversial. Happy to listen if you do. So, follow up question. If Trump is a Putin-lover and his subordinate, why dis he put such pressure on the others, on Germany in particular? Why did he work so hard to strengthen Nato? There's no logic there. You people are being led by the nose, by those who despise him and would rather see him fail, at any cost. Even if it means WW3 with Putin. B-b-b cause Trunp! 👺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 20 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: No, yes, no, yes. 🤷♂️ You are of course entitled to an opinion. Not much can really be proven empirically these days, in a world so full of lies and political intrigue, especially now with the internet. At least, in the good old days the state's propaganda and lies were printed in books that people could buy and keep on their shelves. Now, is but a matter of a few mouse clicks and history can be conveniently 'adjusted'. All that leaves us with are our memories, some clues, and the use of logic. Which many are sorely lacking... You claim they are not increasing their spending due to the efforts of Trump, but I have shown that already. Three links. Two from Nato.org and one from CNN. Remember? 2019 ffs? Probably not. I do remember because I posted them originally here in this forum IN 2019, and I can show you that too if need be. More about the actual logic of it though. The leaders of Nato knew through their information channels that Russia was building up toward a full-scale invasion. They were well aware of it in those days. That is why Trump used his bully pulpit to force them to man-up and meet their obligations. We all should be well aware that many Nato countries did not meet the commitments they signed on to, Canada included. Trump told them that the US is not obligated to rescue them if Putin were to attack, unless they do set aside the money. Result- what Jens Stoltenberg said at the time. I don't see much in that story that is debatable or controversial. Happy to listen if you do. So, follow up question. If Trump is a Putin-lover and his subordinate, why dis he put such pressure on the others, on Germany in particular? Why did he work so hard to strengthen Nato? There's no logic there. You people are being led by the nose, by those who despise him and would rather see him fail, at any cost. Even if it means WW3 with Putin. B-b-b cause Trunp! 👺 So, what do you think Putin will take from Trump's comments? You really don't think it will be an encouragement? Putin is the one who made European members increase defence spending, not Trump. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: You and the other clod @I am Groot may attack me all you want, no one is here to stop you. But since you have nothing else to say, cannot refute my steely logic and the real facts, links I graciously provide, only make yourselves look like weak-minded fools. Up to you. That is why I say to you people, I say, away little boys. I have no time to play... Steely logic!!! LOL 😝 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 3 hours ago, Aristides said: Putin is the one who made European members increase defence spending, not Trump. So I guess you think Jens Stoltenberg should thank Putin then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Highly debatable and a matter of leadership style, but Trump is rude, abrasive and to the point. I suppose he has no patience or time for lying leftists who want to get a free ride on US' back. But this was, literally, an emergency. Did it work? See my links. Results speak for themselves. Oh really? You mean the results of most NATO members STILL falling short of the 2% of GDP for defense spending? Of course, they have not many alternatives to spending on US arms, which of course is the point of Trump's emphasis on the CASH. 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Once people go after my forum name, I know I have won. Your surrender has been accepted... Thanks for proving your name CHOICE is definitive again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 12 hours ago, Nationalist said: Idiocy like...opening the border to millions? The border isn't open. But nothing draws immigrants more than Republicans shouting "OPEN BORDERS!" 12 hours ago, Nationalist said: Like surrendering to a terrorist group? You talking about Trump's surrender to the Taliban? 12 hours ago, Nationalist said: Like spending the USA into a deep hole and inflation? We're doing just fine. "Best economy in the world." Thanks for your concern. Quote Top 10 Largest Economies in the World 2024 Which are the top 5 GDP countries in the world? The US, China, Japan, Germany, and India, respectively, hold those positions in 2024. Now, let’s take a look at the top 10 largest economies/ richest countries in the world in 2024, sourced from IMF data (as of February 07, 2024): Rank & Country GDP (USD billion) GDP Per Capita (USD thousand) #1 United States Of America (U.S.A) 27,974 83.06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 12 hours ago, OftenWrong said: No, the media are at fault for lying, by omitting the context and the whole truth of what was said. So-called "lies of omission". It works on people like you. Calling me brain-dead? You started the thread but obviously didn't understand the issue either. Evidenced by giving approval in your reaction to aristumped when he said "ffs... the link is from 2019." Brain dead, look in the mirror. Take your own advice. Telling NATO members they can't count on the US for defense, and Russia they can do whatever they want, is JUST STUPID. Even worse is Trump proclaiming he'll be the judge of whether every other NATO member has met HIS STANDARD, when he doesn't even know what he's talking about. Unity BE DAMNED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 13 hours ago, WestCanMan said: The person that you're talking to is incapable of acknowledging facts that he doesn't like. You mean like you can't acknowledge that many thousands of drops of water are from "rain"? 13 hours ago, OftenWrong said: I suggest you are out of your depth again (nothing new there, who knew?). Do not ever play poker. Stick to the lottery instead. As per usual, am sure. We're all sure you're often wrong and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, OftenWrong said: You and the other clod @I am Groot may attack me all you want, no one is here to stop you. But since you have nothing else to say, cannot refute my steely logic and the real facts, links I graciously provide, only make yourselves look like weak-minded fools. Up to you. That is why I say to you people, I say, away little boys. I have no time to play... That's all you ever do here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 The conditioned cult will take every word of the idol as the only and the ultimate truth. There are so many examples that there's nothing more to add. The reason and the reality itself will fly right off the tin brains with a direct feed to the propaganda engine. Yet we can state the reality as it is. It won't convince them, they are past that. But it will bother and irritate them. The best and the only thing one can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 5 hours ago, robosmith said: The border isn't open. But nothing draws immigrants more than Republicans shouting "OPEN BORDERS!" You talking about Trump's surrender to the Taliban? We're doing just fine. "Best economy in the world." Thanks for your concern. Ur insane.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 5 hours ago, robosmith said: Take your own advice. Telling NATO members they can't count on the US for defense, and Russia they can do whatever they want, is JUST STUPID. Even worse is Trump proclaiming he'll be the judge of whether every other NATO member has met HIS STANDARD, when he doesn't even know what he's talking about. Unity BE DAMNED. Ok. Buckle up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 5 hours ago, robosmith said: often wrong Nice drive-by swatting. Your posts are like shakespearean rants, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 13 Author Report Share Posted February 13 They have nothing to add here, it's a continuous loop of brainless ill-logic. He said so, so it has to be right. It's right because he said so, and all over. A two-neuron cellular organism can do that much. Billions of years for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 11 hours ago, OftenWrong said: So I guess you think Jens Stoltenberg should thank Putin then... Maybe he should. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Aristides said: Maybe he should. You never-trumpers are wacky to be sure, but at least you're consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: You never-trumpers are wacky to be sure, but at least you're consistent. If he is going to thank anyone for the big increase in European defence spending, Putin would be the one. It wouldn't have happened without Putin threatening the Baltic states and his invasion of Ukraine. Nothing wacky about it at all. Don't you ever wonder what passed between Trump and Putin during their private meetings in Osaka and Helsinki with only interpreters present? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 15 minutes ago, Aristides said: Don't you ever wonder what passed between Trump and Putin during their private meetings in Osaka and Helsinki with only interpreters present? I try not to lose sleep over it, if that's what you mean. I don't buy your theory, because that's all it is, a theory. And not a very good one given the Nato and CNN links I gave earlier. Those make it clear that Trump took action against the Nato deadbeats, whom were dragging their feet on it for years. For that he was given credit by Stoltenberg, whom I consider a neutral party and not heavily politically biased. To whit- Stoltenberg is giving criticism to Trump about his story right now, saying he expects US to have a strong relationship with Nato no matter who is the president. In terms of financial and military committment, the US, is Nato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: I try not to lose sleep over it, if that's what you mean. I don't buy your theory, because that's all it is, a theory. And not a very good one given the Nato and CNN links I gave earlier. Those make it clear that Trump took action against the Nato deadbeats, whom were dragging their feet on it for years. For that he was given credit by Stoltenberg, whom I consider a neutral party and not heavily politically biased. To whit- Stoltenberg is giving criticism to Trump about his story right now, saying he expects US to have a strong relationship with Nato no matter who is the president. In terms of financial and military committment, the US, is Nato. Stoltenberg's comments were made in 2019, the big increase in spending didn't start until after the invasion of Ukraine three years later. I'm not saying Trump's comments had no effect but the invasion of Ukraine was the big kick in the ass. So basically Stoltenberg is saying you can't believe a word Trump says but most of us have known that for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 4 hours ago, Aristides said: Stoltenberg's comments were made in 2019, the big increase in spending didn't start until after the invasion of Ukraine three years later. You gave your opinion already. Facts are what matter. I know I said facts are hard to find, but you have to at least look. It only took me a few minutes to find this data, showing "Annual real change in defense expenditure among NATO countries from 2014 to 2023". I think the info is fairly clear, speaks for itself. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293399/nato-defense-spending-annual-change/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, OftenWrong said: You gave your opinion already. Facts are what matter. I know I said facts are hard to find, but you have to at least look. It only took me a few minutes to find this data, showing "Annual real change in defense expenditure among NATO countries from 2014 to 2023". I think the info is fairly clear, speaks for itself. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293399/nato-defense-spending-annual-change/ The facts are what Stoltenberg said about Trumps latest rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, Aristides said: The facts are what Stoltenberg said about Trumps latest rant. So now you dodge your baseless claims about how Nato defence spending didn't increase under Trump in 2019. You were shown the data. I knew you wouldn't accept it and change the argument. But there it is in the link. The yes-no back and forth arguments you give are uninteresting. Opinions are like arsholes as the saying goes. Everyone's got one. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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