The Ruin That a Trump Presidency Would Mean

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm asking what Trump would do.

He's asking what biden has done.

[OftenWrong]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:25 AM, Michael Hardner said:

China is pouring money in to the USA... to buy farmland.

What do you think Trump would do about that ?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-buying-us-farmland-just-230534826.html

Hopefully implement massive tariffs on Chinese products. Totally shut down the trade, totally shut it down. And impose a tax barrier to stop them from buying land. No country, especially China, should be allowed to buy vast amounts of farmland in another country.

If Americans know what's good for them...

Edited January 20, 2024 by OftenWrong

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Hopefully implement massive tariffs on Chinese products. Totally shut down the trade, totally shut it down. And impose a tax barrier to stop them from buying land. No country, especially China, should be allowed to buy vast amounts of farmland in another country.

If Americans know what's good for them...

No more iPhones, ok...

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No more iPhones, ok...

That would only be a small part of the problem. But since, we are talking about a new technological/industrial revolution as a way of doing things cleaner and greener, globalism is in conflict with that on many levels. A country that refuses to implement environmental regulations... and there are powers in the west who like it that way, who need to keep it that way.

Why? Because in our own countries we HAVE such regulations, forcing the price of production up significantly.

Trump also proved this is true, by slashing regulations in the United States in order to 'level the field' as it were, which was a substantial part of how he reinvigorated the US economy. 

Can learn about it here, in this google search I've provided-
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+slashed+regulations

So, this is a good time for a rethink on how we do things. Stop being so greedy. You might not have the best phone for a decade or so, until we start making them right here.

Certainly phones are not a good example, undermines the significance of it.

Prescription drugs are a better one. Here's an article to explain the issue.

https://www.nortonrosefulbright.com/en/knowledge/publications/267cfb99/made-in-canada-the-challenges-of-increasing-domestic-production-of-pharmaceuticals

"Beginning in the 1980s, strengthening environmental policies and rising labour costs in western countries caused a shift in consumer goods manufacturing from domestic-based to foreign-based, primarily in India and China. As much as 60% of active pharmaceutical ingredients are produced in China while 70% of finished pharmaceuticals (such as tablets) are produced in India. This translates to 70% of all finished prescription drugs in Canada and 90% of all components used in drugs manufactured domestically originating from abroad."

[Michael Hardner]

44 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

1. Why? Because in our own countries we HAVE such regulations, forcing the price of production up significantly.

2. You might not have the best phone for a decade or so, until we start making them right here.

3. Certainly phones are not a good example, undermines the significance of it.

4. This translates to 70% of all finished prescription drugs in Canada and 90% of all components used in drugs manufactured domestically originating from abroad."

First of all, let me say that I think you are intelligent poster. Some of the things you post seem rather rash, but I certainly don't claim to understand global trade more than you do.

So when I take little shots at your posts, it's just to find out your take on some of the big ideas that you are getting behind here.

For all I know, you've got a a great rationale and if so I would like to hear it. It. So don't take this as me thinking you're ridiculous or anything. But I have some big questions about some things you post.

1. No country has been successful in achieving its climate goals, neither the US, nor China, nor canada. However, there is a framework with climate targets and international treaty called the Paris accord. I believe China signed on to it, and Trump withdrew from it.

2. I would never personally buy an iPhone, I think it's a ridiculous thing to have as a status symbol. Until recently I used Motorola products.  I bought a pixel recently because it was ridiculously cheap. I am cheap.

3. Probably a better example would be the agricultural exports that Trump's trade wars had to subsidize, increasing the deficit

4. Good example. No matter how high tariffs go, there will be some things that are freely traded. We still trade with Russia and we traded with the Soviet Union during the cold war too.

...

 

That's because there's a mutual advantage in trading, and this is the thing that bothers me the most about jingoistic trade rhetoric. It's very easy to see that it's fake. If... Money to be made then the trade will happen. For all of what Trump said about China, the trade happened after his tariffs... And Biden did nothing about them either.

The fact that the average person knows practically nothing about the value of international trade means that when it comes into the public sphere, it will only be used deceptively. In other words, Trump will imply, Biden will imply, any of them will imply that they're going to bring back manufacturing jobs to the level of economic impact they had in the 1940s. 1950s 1960s. But really the economy is better off with trade, even if the factory worker earning a great living is a thing of the past.

I don't resent Trump or any of the others taking advantage of public ignorance, but I will point it out in person or on a board like this if I see points that I think may rely on common myths. Nothing personal here.

Edited January 20, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

First of all, let me say that I think you are intelligent poster. Some of the things you post seem rather rash, but I certainly don't claim to understand global trade more than you do.

So when I take little shots at your posts, it's just to find out your take on some of the big ideas that you are getting behind here.

For all I know, you've got a a great rationale and if so I would like to hear it. It. So don't take this as me thinking you're ridiculous or anything. But I have some big questions about some things you post.

1. No country has been successful in achieving its climate goals, neither the US, nor China, nor canada. However, there is a framework with climate targets and international treaty called the Paris accord. I believe China signed on to it, and Trump withdrew from it.

2. I would never personally buy an iPhone, I think it's a ridiculous thing to have as a status symbol. Until recently I used Motorola products.  I bought a pixel recently because it was ridiculously cheap. I am cheap.

3. Probably a better example would be the agricultural exports that Trump's trade wars had to subsidize, increasing the deficit

4. Good example. No matter how high tariffs go, there will be some things that are freely traded. We still trade with Russia and we traded with the Soviet Union during the cold war too.

...

 

That's because there's a mutual advantage in trading, and this is the thing that bothers me the most about jingoistic trade rhetoric. It's very easy to see that it's fake. If... Money to be made then the trade will happen. For all of what Trump said about China, the trade happened after his tariffs... And Biden did nothing about them either.

The fact that the average person knows practically nothing about the value of international trade means that when it comes into the public sphere, it will only be used deceptively. In other words, Trump will imply, Biden will imply, any of them will imply that they're going to bring back manufacturing jobs to the level of economic impact they had in the 1940s. 1950s 1960s. But really the economy is better off with trade, even if the factory worker earning a great living is a thing of the past.

I don't resent Trump or any of the others taking advantage of public ignorance, but I will point it out in person or on a board like this if I see points that I think may rely on common myths. Nothing personal here.

Well thanks I guess but I am just another ordinary Joe Bob around here. I know what I know, you know what you know... maybe if we all stop being ass-hats we can learn something. But still, ass-hattery is too much fun for some and it will rule the day if we allow it.

I am no expert on trade or politics, but this site helps me stay current. Because of you people...  

Now, on with the numerology...

1. I can't defend why he withdrew without looking closer at the reasons given. But am aware that despite this, America has shown leadership in reducing pollutant and GHG emission. The dilemma is not whether or not we want to protect the environment, it is HOW.  And sad truth is, no one has lived up to their committment. If Canada wants to take the lead, ok fine, but then again our total GHG output is insignificant compared to large industrialized nations. Thus (a) We can slash our output to the point we're back to living in caves, and would not be a major impact on total emission. (b) In any cases I suspect many such reports are lies, and the real emission level of Canada and others is higher than admitted.

2. I get mine for "free" from work, and it's nothing special. I had an android before and liked it better.

3. Short term pain is sometimes necessary for long term gain. Like a drug addict has to go through withdrawal, a painful experience, in order to get clean. But greed is almost always the underlying motivation for things. Greed will not go away soon. What is interesting in that example is how it tied together those claims I made, globalism, regulations, trade and medicine. Some of these things, like drugs and medical supplies are matters of national security. China and India are not good friends of Canada.

4. Maintaining trade and positive relations with other countries good. But, it is by no means a guarantee of trust or cooperation, as history shows us time and agin'  

Quote

But really the economy is better off with trade, even if the factory worker earning a great living is a thing of the past.

I don't see the world as a better place today than it was 50 years ago. History shows nothing but warfare and strife through the ages, and this conflict is still deeply rooted in our international relations. As a North American, I think we depend on the United States to give us the umbrella of freedom we live under. Possibly the most free, safe and equitable time in human history. So it is necessary to be biased, to defend USA for our own selfish interests. C'est la guerre.

[Michael Hardner]

What do the Trump supporters think about:

- Trump indicating he wants the death penalty for drug dealers?

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/10/1152847242/trump-campaign-execute-drug-dealers-smugglers-traffickers-death-row#:~:text=He didn't go into,Because it's the only way."

-Implications that he would enact political revenge against his enemies?

 

[Nationalist]

45 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What do the Trump supporters think about:

- Trump indicating he wants the death penalty for drug dealers?

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/10/1152847242/trump-campaign-execute-drug-dealers-smugglers-traffickers-death-row#:~:text=He didn't go into,Because it's the only way."

-Implications that he would enact political revenge against his enemies?

 

May I chime in?

I am a proponent of the death penalty in some instances. And if anyone in America deserves some retribution, it would be Trump. 

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I am a proponent of the death penalty in some instances. And if anyone in America deserves some retribution, it would be Trump. 

So the country should give him a present, which is the right to persecute his enemies? But wasn't it wrong when Biden did it, in their eyes?

[OftenWrong]

8 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

May I chime in?

I am a proponent of the death penalty in some instances. And if anyone in America deserves some retribution, it would be Trump. 

See the issue is calling oneself a "Trump Supporter". I am not necessarily a supporter of any person, because people are complex and may differ on various salient points. For example, I might support Trump's ideas on restricting trade with China, but not his advice on ingesting Draino to fight covid-19. 

In any case the drug problem in the last ten years or so has gone "high", as if it's on "steroids". But the reasl issue is deadly street drugs (fentanyl) coming from... China. So again, I support the notion of restricting trade with them. Actually I support banning all trade from them, but it can't be done overnight.

Ah, if only I were king...  

....

Reading the link MH provided, it states that the epidemic of drug overdose deaths is so extreme. Trump said that just one drug dealer can be responsible for hundreds of deaths. That needs to be stopped. Ask the families of young kids who made a mistake, and are dead.

I do not support capital punishment in the form of death penalty in principle, as I am a Canadian. The state has no right to take life, imo. Life sentence no parole.

[Deluge]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:59 PM, robosmith said:

The Ruin That a Trump Presidency Would Mean

There would be NO RECOVERY from Trump v2.0 🤮
 

It would mean the ruination of the woke agenda which is what any normal Ameican can get behind. 

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

....

Reading the link MH provided, it states that the epidemic of drug overdose deaths is so extreme. Trump said that just one drug dealer can be responsible for hundreds of deaths. That needs to be stopped. Ask the families of young kids who made a mistake, and are dead.

I do not support capital punishment in the form of death penalty in principle, as I am a Canadian. The state has no right to take life, imo. Life sentence no parole.

This problem has indeed touched my family, but I agree with you on this pretty much 100%.

And I also ask why the Purdue family in the USA, the ones who arguably kicked off this epidemic, are allowed to keep their billions after all of this?

 

Of all of the waling about elites like Bill Gates, why are these people almost never mentioned??

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This problem has indeed touched my family,

That's a pity.

I should clarify what I said, the harshest penalties need to be for the drug distributors, the so-called 'Drug Lords'. Not the corner dealer, who is just some punk they employ to hand the drugs out. I'm talking about the Pablo Escobar types, and their associates.

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

So the country should give him a present, which is the right to persecute his enemies? But wasn't it wrong when Biden did it, in their eyes?

Mike...we've all heard the quote. Trump said he'd be a dictator for 1 day...to close the border and turn the oil and gas industry loose again.

Both would stabilize the American and Canadian economies. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

See the issue is calling oneself a "Trump Supporter". I am not necessarily a supporter of any person, because people are complex and may differ on various salient points. For example, I might support Trump's ideas on restricting trade with China, but not his advice on ingesting Draino to fight covid-19. 

In any case the drug problem in the last ten years or so has gone "high", as if it's on "steroids". But the reasl issue is deadly street drugs (fentanyl) coming from... China. So again, I support the notion of restricting trade with them. Actually I support banning all trade from them, but it can't be done overnight.

Ah, if only I were king...  

....

Reading the link MH provided, it states that the epidemic of drug overdose deaths is so extreme. Trump said that just one drug dealer can be responsible for hundreds of deaths. That needs to be stopped. Ask the families of young kids who made a mistake, and are dead.

I do not support capital punishment in the form of death penalty in principle, as I am a Canadian. The state has no right to take life, imo. Life sentence no parole.

Being Canadian doesn't mean one is against capital punishment. I'm Canadian and would fully support it in some cases.

What I wouldn't support is the notion of 10 years on death row. If one is guilty of say...breaking in a house and butchering the inhabitants...that person has forfeited their classification of civil, and should be marched out behind the courthouse and turned into dog and cat food.