If you keep bringing in Muslims, then you have to deal with the consequences.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

Yes, I mentioned that in the post above.  And the quote I put in from that ministry preaching for Canada to “obey God or be destroyed” is a ministry dedicated to the goal of reconciling with Muslims….   They see an ally in socially conservative Muslims.  I don’t know how it would work exactly, but they don’t see Muslims as an enemy of Canada, but as an ally to turn Canada into a more religious country. 
 

So what’s the problem:  Muslims, or social conservatives from any religion?

I can't imagine anyone seriously thinks the problem is Muslims.  The are about 1.5 billion of them.  If they were the problem, we'd all be in trouble.

As you say, the problem is socially conservative, or fundamentalist religious types.  Those who think their interpretation of their religion gives them the right to dictate acceptable behaviour to anyone else.

There is a further problem of degree, and also one of perception, when it comes to criticism, or downright expressions of disgust.

Edited November 12, 2023 by bcsapper

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Because when in a restaurant or public place, nobody should have to listen to loud-mouthed blasphemers using obscene or blasphemous language.  Freedom of speech has its limits.  Keep your dirt and perversions away from kids especially.

Loud mouthed meaning disturbing the peace?  I'm 100% in favour of freedom of speech, but that doesn't give my neighbour the right to play his music too loud.

Same with blasphemers.  If they can be said to be breaking laws regarding noise or public disturbance, then shut them down.

But never for their views.

[Perspektiv]

44 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am saying those whose behaviour is not culturally compatible with democratic values of Canada which stands for respect and equality for women, respect for other religions and respect for human rights must be screened out. 

Or tougher laws?

People have the freedom of religion in Canada. 

It being compatible or not, is irrelevant.

My wife's religious beliefs conflict with mine. It doesn't or shouldn't matter, as she doesn't break the law.

I don't see it as any different than for a Muslim or any other religion.

You do something illegal in Canada, and the full weight of the law should be applied.

Terrorism or any such violence should have zero tolerance behind it.

People tend to behave when they risk lengthy jail sentences or deportation for acting foolish.

Don't punish the majority because a minority is not fit to live in Canada.

Your logic would ban black people like me from travel, because some are so violent and extremist in their views, ignoring the vast majority are not, when considering the global population of black people.

[Jack9000]

there religion is the problem  it demeans woman. lots of friendly muslim people though.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

What a muslim believes comes from Moses and your God, you may tell them they are wrong but not impose your view to them. They can believe and do  what they want as long as it is acceptable to the law.

Absolutely.  They can believe what they want even if it is not acceptable to the law. 

There is no law that says what one must believe, or not believe.

 

[CITIZEN_2015]

16 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I can't imagine anyone seriously thinks the problem is Muslims.  The are about 1.5 billion of them.  If they were the problem, we'd all be in trouble.

That is because they are far away. But it is a fact andr reality that wherever they are a majority, that place is in problem. When they come to power usually through a coup and by force then they really mess up things.

Canadians don't have personal experience so they are totally unaware of this issue. And I am not surprised. My mission is to raise awareness.

Edited November 12, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[TreeBeard]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Because when in a restaurant or public place, nobody should have to listen to loud-mouthed blasphemers using obscene or blasphemous language.  Freedom of speech has its limits.  Keep your dirt and perversions away from kids especially.

Only in restaurants?   How far would you really take laws against free speech?  You mentioned movies in the past.  
 

What about books?  Should blasphemous books be banned? 

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Or tougher laws?

People have the freedom of religion in Canada. 

It being compatible or not, is irrelevant.

My wife's religious beliefs conflict with mine. It doesn't or shouldn't matter, as she doesn't break the law.

I don't see it as any different than for a Muslim or any other religion.

You do something illegal in Canada, and the full weight of the law should be applied.

Terrorism or any such violence should have zero tolerance behind it.

People tend to behave when they risk lengthy jail sentences or deportation for acting foolish.

Don't punish the majority because a minority is not fit to live in Canada.

Your logic would ban black people like me from travel, because some are so violent and extremist in their views, ignoring the vast majority are not, when considering the global population of black people.

You don't understand. If they form the government (which they usually do by force) they CHANGE the laws. 

Marrying under 18 was illegal in Iran before 1979. It is legal now over 12.

Forcing women to wear hijab was illegal before 1979. Now it is forced and the regime beats them up.

Divorce could be initiated by women but now only by men.

Alcohol and nightclubs were legal now they are illegal.

Division of heredity was equal now son gets most.

Many other examples.

Edited November 12, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

That is because they are far away. But it is a fact andr reality that wherever they are a majority, that place is in problem. When they come to power usually through a coup and by force then they really mess up things.

Canadians don't have personal experience so they are totally unaware of this issue. And I am not surprise. My mission is to raise awareness.

No-one who hasn't lived under a rock for the last half a century or so is unaware of the problems mandated adherence to religious law brings to a society.  You are particularly concerned with the Islamic Republic of Iran, I know, and you have my sympathy and my complete agreement.  It's a brutally oppressive regime, whose oppression is based entirely on Sharia Law.

[TreeBeard]

Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You don't understand. If they form the government (which they usually do by force) they CHANGE the laws. 

Marrying under 18 was illegal in Iran before 1979. It is legal now over 12.

Forcing women to wear hijab was illegal before 1979. Now it is forced and the regime beats them up.

Diverce could be initiated by women but now only by men.

Alcohol and nightclubs were legal now they are illegal.

Division of heedity was equal now son gets most.

Many other examples.

Ummm…. You do know that we have a Constitution and laws that allow alcohol, don’t you?  It was religious Conservatives who banned alcohol in Canada.  That was overturned by secular law. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

48 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

What a muslim believes comes from Moses and your God, you may tell them they are wrong but not impose your view to them. They can believe and do  what they want as long as it is acceptable to the law.

Don't give me that nonsense. They beat up and kill teenage girls in Islamic republic or Afghanistan or Pakistan for refusing to wear hijab and I am supposed to accept and they can do what they believe and they want??!!!!. NO.  Not in Iran because Iran society unlike the other two shitholes is very advanced and the majority of people do not accept this and want that baxkward religion out of their lives and their country.

Edited November 12, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

7 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Ummm…. You do know that we have a Constitution and laws that allow alcohol, don’t you?  It was religious Conservatives who banned alcohol in Canada.  That was overturned by secular law. 

Not sure if you read my post careful enough. I said if we continue to saturate our beautiful country with backward cultures then in future they will change the laws. Alcohol was one minor change but you focused and ignored on women hating laws.

Edited November 12, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[Perspektiv]

12 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Marrying under 18 was illegal in Iran before 1979. It is legal now over 12.

So you're saying Jared Fogle could have just flown there and could represent Subway from Iran, legally?

13 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Many other examples.

Of why I won't put that country on my travel plans. Confused as to what this has anything to do with Canada.

[Perspektiv]

20 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

there religion is the problem  it demeans woman. 

Like western culture doesn't? 

Find me a commercial hit rap video without a woman having liquor poured out on her twerking booty?

Commercials telling women they are either too old, fat or too skinny with this fat acceptance movement.

Heck, they're even told men won't go near them if their cooch stinks. That s*** better be fresh. Buy Canesten now! 

Only Fans is glorified. Marriage and family vilified.

When you have to coin terms like slut shaming and slut walks, your society isn't a sparkling beacon of hope for women, either.

[CITIZEN_2015]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 

Of why I won't put that country on my travel plans. Confused as to what this has anything to do with Canada.

I really give up. It has become Mission Impossible to raise awareness. The debate is about opening the door on Muslim immigrants and its unsafe consequences for Canada. This means in future you may not need to travel there to be among them but they may be here among you. When you daughter dates her boyfriend or your girlfriend walks without what they regard as proper cover, then you will feel the consequences.

[Guest]

Just now, Perspektiv said:

Like western culture doesn't? 

Find me a commercial hit rap video without a woman having liquor poured out on her twerking booty?

Commercials telling women they are either too old, fat or too skinny with this fat acceptance movement.

Heck, they're even told men won't go near them if their cooch stinks. That s*** better be fresh. Buy Canesten now! 

Only Fans is glorified. Marriage and family vilified.

When you have to coin terms like slut shaming and slut walks, your society isn't a sparkling beacon of hope for women, either.

Fair points, but to be really comparable you would have to jail the woman having liquor poured on her body if she decided to quit and find something else to do.

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Like western culture doesn't? 

Find me a commercial hit rap video without a woman having liquor poured out on her twerking booty?

Commercials telling women they are either too old, fat or too skinny with this fat acceptance movement.

Heck, they're even told men won't go near them if their cooch stinks. That s*** better be fresh. Buy Canesten now! 

Only Fans is glorified. Marriage and family vilified.

When you have to coin terms like slut shaming and slut walks, your society isn't a sparkling beacon of hope for women, either.

Such childish examples, You want to know what demeaning women is, then follow the news on Islamic states.

[herbie]

Freedumb of speech where f*ck, a$$hole and goddam are forbidden but 'go back to your own country and towelhead are acceptable is what he means.

Doze peepul just ain't like us, whah i unnahstan day even black undahneath day clothes! - Sen. Luther P Butticks AL D 1953

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Such childish examples, You want to know what demeaning women is, then follow the news on Islamic states.

You shouldn't make the mistake of thinking certain behavior is acceptable just because you have examples of much worse behaviour.  Behaviour intended to demean or belittle women might not be up there with jail sentences for refusing to wear a veil, but that doesn't mean it's not worthy of censure.

Edited November 12, 2023 by bcsapper

[herbie]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I told you being a Muslim is not a race but is a choice therefore being against their way of thinking is not racism.

What is your problem of understanding my posts?

That you don't even know what it is, yet deny your comments are.

I told you being a Jew is not a race but is a choice therefore being against their way of thinking is not racism.

Does that help you understand?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

That you don't even know what it is, yet deny your comments are.

I told you being a Jew is not a race but is a choice therefore being against their way of thinking is not racism.

Does that help you understand?

Ancestry.com told me I was 1% Jewish once.  I don't think they tell anyone they any percent Muslim.

[CITIZEN_2015]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

That you don't even know what it is, yet deny your comments are.

I told you being a Jew is not a race but is a choice therefore being against their way of thinking is not racism.

Does that help you understand?

What kind of stupid example is that? Yes being a Jew is a race and is not a choice. Being a Muslim is a choice and not a race. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You shouldn't make the mistake of thinking certain behavior is acceptable just because you have examples of much worse behaviour.  Behaviour intended to demean or belittle women might not be up there with jail sentences for refusing to wear a veil, but that doesn't mean it's not worthy of censure.

I was just saying there are much more important risk factors in future for Canada unless we take action now. 

[herbie]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes being a Jew is a race and is not a choice

You can measure their skulls with calipers and refer to the diagrams in the Party reference book. Or tell it to Sammy Davis Jr. while you're at it.

Hell let's pretend discrimination based on DNA analysis is not racism while we're at it.

You're continuing to protest by making arguments that cultures can't, wont and shouldn't evolve over time, and that immigrants don't, can't and wont adapt to new environments. Do you actually think Dad can make his daughter or wife not attend school or wear a gunny sack out shopping in Canada? Must be a real strong supporter of parental rights then. Know any Sikh parents forbidding their sons wearing a hockey helmet instead of a turban or Chinese Canadians binding their feet?

You can hold onto whatever fun-dumb-mental belief you want, you can't demand it of others here.

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Not sure if you read my post careful enough. I said if we continue to saturate our beautiful country with backward cultures then in future they will change the laws. Alcohol was one minor change but you focused and ignored on women hating laws.

How socially conservative are the children of immigrants?  The answer is no more so than any other Canadian. 
 

I don’t think Canada will be bringing in 30 million Muslims.