Which (one) G7 country does not have high-speed rail?

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

To beat a flight in that regard, the price and trip length must be competitive

I agree. I just don't see how, if you're to turn a profit regarding its costs.

If people are telling me that's fine and your government handling this doesn't make you nervous, then I don't know what to say.

I would rather a for profit business owned this. They have high incentive to keep customers happy.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

I agree. I just don't see how, if you're to turn a profit regarding its costs.

If people are telling me that's fine and your government handling this doesn't make you nervous, then I don't know what to say.

I would rather a for profit business owned this. They have high incentive to keep customers happy.

VIA is a crown corporation for a reason.  It provides a service to out of the way areas that no private company would serve.  They have to make the trip attractive enough for its overall value: speed, comfort, cost.  It needs Toronto-Montreal to offset losses elsewhere, much as the CBC needs Hockey Night in Canada to pay for adds about the woodchuck’s habitat.

The sad part is that after this whole HFR exercise is completed, people will hesitate to consider Toronto to Montreal by train in 4 hours.  It’s just not enough of anything.  Get it to 3 hours at no more than $200 return and suddenly thousands of car trips and flights are replaced by train trips.  It would be modestly high speed but significant improvement.  We seem unable to inspire.  Surely some of those millions earmarked for climate action can be put to use here.  What’s better, windmills that produce little power?

[Perspektiv]

26 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

What’s better

Hard to virtue signal about a train, unless it's fully electrified, and the source of that electricity comes from clean Canadian energy.

Train wheels made with recycled cars that were pulled off the streets.

Interiors furnished by Ikea.

[DUI_Offender]

7 hours ago, Aristides said:

Toronto/Montreal is the only place HSR might make sense, otherwise far too expensive for the populations involved. The bill for HSR between LA and San Francisco is now being put at $110 Billion USD.

An Edmonton-Calgary corridor would work too, since the corridor is expected to hit 4,000,000 people by 2030.

[Aristides]

25 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

An Edmonton-Calgary corridor would work too, since the corridor is expected to hit 4,000,000 people by 2030.

Might but there is a dead straight freeway between the two with no stops for competition. Just over 3 hours by car doing the speed limit.

[myata]

On 11/13/2023 at 1:07 PM, CdnFox said:

Make your business case for it if you're going to claim we should have it.

Business does not have incentives for improvement if it doesn't need to compete. Without looking forward and ongoing improvement, public infrastructure, social fabric, living standard etc in Canada will stagnate and then deteriorate. Not caused by the abominable Libs - through mental laziness and complacency, readiness with enthusiasm accept substandard services. There aren't good solutions down this path.

[Perspektiv]

On 11/13/2023 at 7:16 PM, Aristides said:

Might but there is a dead straight freeway between the two with no stops for competition. Just over 3 hours by car doing the speed limit.

Yeah, in north America, a 2 to 3 hour trip is one you will likely do by car. 

I know for sure that I would.

I barely dip into half a gas tank, and my car is a fuel sipper. 

The inconvenience of buying the tickets, packing light enough vs stuffing my trunk with whatever I want. 

Waiting in line, vs sleeping in to whenever we want. Pit stops whenever we want. 

It's just not comparable.

[ExFlyer]

7 hours ago, myata said:

Business does not have incentives for improvement if it doesn't need to compete. Without looking forward and ongoing improvement, public infrastructure, social fabric, living standard etc in Canada will stagnate and then deteriorate. Not caused by the abominable Libs - through mental laziness and complacency, readiness with enthusiasm accept substandard services. There aren't good solutions down this path.

You were asked "Make your business case for it if you're going to claim we should have it. " and you have not answered.

Bottom line is that there is absolutely no reason for a gazzilion dollar high speed rail in Canada as we are car-scentric. It makes no economic sense.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You were asked "Make your business case for it if you're going to claim we should have it. " and you have not answered.

Bottom line is that there is absolutely no reason for a gazzilion dollar high speed rail in Canada as we are car-scentric. It makes no economic sense.

Well, not everyone drives, including the elderly, kids, and the very poor.  Also, there’s value in not having to drive if you need to rest or get work done, but the cost has to be reasonable.  That’s why we’re getting a very watered down HSR.  It will be an improvement, have a market, and be upgraded as conditions allow.  

[Aristides]

Even with their population density, China subsidizes its railways to the tune of $130 billion, India $35.8 billion and Europe €73 billion.  It is the highest subsidized industry in the EU.

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Even with their population density, China subsidizes its railways to the tune of $130 billion, India $35.8 billion and Europe €73 billion.  It is the highest subsidized industry in the EU.

Yes, but China prints as much money as it needs to pay for whatever it wants.  It centrally controls the value of its currency so it can neither increase or deflate in value.  Europe taxes its population to the hilt.  India has the density and population like China.  Canada has a small population but relatively decent income level.  If we stopped paying for abortions in Africa, scrapped DEI indoctrination departments, and reduced our size of government, we could build a fantastic HSR line and cut taxes.  

[Aristides]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes, but China prints as much money as it needs to pay for whatever it wants.  It centrally controls the value of its currency so it can neither increase or deflate in value.  Europe taxes its population to the hilt.  India has the density and population like China.  Canada has a small population but relatively decent income level.  If we stopped paying for abortions in Africa, scrapped DEI indoctrination departments, and reduced our size of government, we could build a fantastic HSR line and cut taxes.  

Dream on. Improved rail makes sense on a route like the Toronto Montreal corridor but nowhere else between major centres.

Europe taxes the crap out of its population to subsidize things like rail.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

10 hours ago, myata said:

Business does not have incentives for improvement if it doesn't need to compete. Without looking forward and ongoing improvement, public infrastructure, social fabric, living standard etc in Canada will stagnate and then deteriorate. Not caused by the abominable Libs - through mental laziness and complacency, readiness with enthusiasm accept substandard services. There aren't good solutions down this path.

For something to compete it has to be competitive. I'm not sure this would be at all.

Doing something for the sake of doing something doesn't move our society forward. It has to be the RIGHT thing, and i guarantee that at this point in time canada will not collapse into stagnation and deterioration just because it doesn't have high speed rail. You'd need a more compelling case than that.

[ExFlyer]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well, not everyone drives, including the elderly, kids, and the very poor.  Also, there’s value in not having to drive if you need to rest or get work done, but the cost has to be reasonable.  That’s why we’re getting a very watered down HSR.  It will be an improvement, have a market, and be upgraded as conditions allow.  

Ya think high speed trains are going to be affordable??

Dream on.

Any most waaaaay overestimate the Toronto/Montreal corridor traffic for such a service.

I have been on high speed trains and they are not as convenient as people think. They are just another means of transport, period.

No way is the expense worth it in this country.  Not only that, minus 25 temps and 3 feet of snow... LOL

Edited November 15, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Ya think high speed trains are going to be affordable??

Dream on.

Any most waaaaay overestimate the Toronto/Montreal corridor traffic for such a service.

I have been on high speed trains and they are not as convenient as people think. They are just another means of transport, period.

No way is the expense worth it in this country.  Not only that, minus 25 temps and 3 feet of snow... LOL

The initial capital costs are high but worth it for reasons of productivity, environment, and quality of life.  At least we’d have some concrete achievement to show for all the government spending.  Montreal and Toronto aren’t on the menu of destinations for most locals because it takes too long to get there and flights are pricey.  Wealth is about options.  Our options are limited, which ultimately keeps our cities off the radar for talented people who can live and work anywhere and create high paying jobs.  I simply have more options in NYC than Toronto or Montreal, so why not move to NYC, where I can cottage in the Hamptons an hour from Manhattan, and I have access to 6 cities within a 3.5 hour train ride.  

Edited November 15, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

at this point in time canada will not collapse into stagnation and deterioration just because it doesn't have high speed rail

I never said "because", the sole or main cause. Certainly a clear symptom and a contributing cause. A species or society that forgot how to change and adapt, avoids changes and sees them as unnecessary bother and trouble will not be successful in the evolution. Cannot be, by the laws of nature. The proof is only a matter of time.

[Zeitgeist]

Canada wastes billions placating designated victim groups with forms of welfare — Indigenous “reparations”, math coaches specifically for black people, funding for LGBTQ2S advocacy groups like Egale.  Why would we spend precious tax money on improving our efficiency, productivity, and quality of life when we can sow division between identity groups and create permanent underclasses?  Throw in compelled speech and canceling people who criticize government to really drive the irrelevance of our government policies home.  

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada wastes billions placating designated victim groups with forms of welfare — Indigenous “reparations”, math coaches specifically for black people, funding for LGBTQ2S advocacy groups like Egale.  Why would we spend precious tax money on improving our efficiency, productivity, and quality of life when we can sow division between identity groups and create permanent underclasses?  Throw in compelled speech and canceling people who criticize government to really drive the irrelevance of our government policies home.  

Well it's got to stop somewhere and here's as good a place as any

I have no problem with groups if they want to live their lives and are happy to let me live mine. Even if i don't agree with that group (Furies - i'm looking at you).  But the moment i see them trying to unreasonably interfere with children or destroying the lives of others just to 'placate' them, then it's over the line