Gator Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 17 minutes ago, blackbird said: You claim to believe in Jesus, yet you have no idea what you are talking about and make repeated false claims. As I said, you need to seek a good Bible counsellor or believer to meet regularly, maybe in a church. If that is true, you better stop posting nonsense on the forum and go find a knowledgeable believer to study the Bible with. I'm asking you these questions because your understanding of God and his word is infallible and I find your theology fascinating! So please enlighten me further. How many different forms of torture does Jesus use on the bad people? Does he torture children and babies too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 On 2/22/2024 at 1:02 PM, blackbird said: In the case of creation versus evolution, proof is a subjective term. Evidence is on the side of creation. The evidence is in the creation itself. It's extreme complexity points to the need for an intelligent designer-Creator. Science has barely scratched the surface of the complexity of life. The very fact of the complexity of the universe and of even the simple cell tells us that it required an extremely intelligent, designer - creator. Darwinists start from the premise that only a theory called evolution can explain the existence of the universe and life. That is an extremely biased starting point because they do not have the proof. It is a religion to them. Setting a premise like that is like putting a wall up and saying you cannot cross. The fact is the existence of the complex universe points to the need for a designer. The idea that it happened by accident has been rejected by many highly educated people. You have no absolute reproducible evidence. Guess what? neither do I. The difference is that I can admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 25 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: You have no absolute reproducible evidence. Guess what? neither do I. The difference is that I can admit it. The only thing you can admit is you are blind to the reality of God. In addition to the creation which is strong evidence of God or proof, there are the Holy Scriptures which record eye witnesses having seen the many miracles that God performed including raising the dead. You ignore that at your own peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, blackbird said: The only thing you can admit is you are blind to the reality of God. In addition to the creation which is strong evidence of God or proof, there are the Holy Scriptures which record eye witnesses having seen the many miracles that God performed including raising the dead. You ignore that at your own peril. as I expected.. you can't own up to your own lack of absolute reproducible evidence. All you have is belief and the self important view that everyone show follow in your footsteps. I know that I am imperfect and do not expect anyone to be exactly like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, impartialobserver said: as I expected.. you can't own up to your own lack of absolute reproducible evidence. All you have is belief and the self important view that everyone show follow in your footsteps. I know that I am imperfect and do not expect anyone to be exactly like me The evidence is there in the creation and Scriptures. You choose to ignore it. Everyone is imperfect and all have sinned. That is why we need Jesus Christ the Savior. Without Jesus Christ, you are doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Just now, blackbird said: The evidence is there in the creation and Scriptures. You choose to ignore it. Everyone is imperfect and all have sinned. That is why we need Jesus Christ the Savior. Without Jesus Christ, you are doomed. The words of scripture are not absolute reproducible evidence... not even close. All you have is belief.. subjective belief. I can own up to my lack of evidence..... see how that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, impartialobserver said: The words of scripture are not absolute reproducible evidence... not even close. All you have is belief.. subjective belief. I can own up to my lack of evidence..... see how that works. Tell a judge and jury in court that you don't accept eye witness evidence. See how far that gets you. Eye witnesses are not "subjective belief". The complexity of creation is not subjective either. It is absolute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Just now, blackbird said: Tell a judge and jury in court that you don't accept eye witness evidence. See how far that gets you. Eye witnesses are not "subjective belief". The complexity of creation is not subjective either. It is absolute. moving the goalposts..... ever so predictable Creation is a story that you expect others to believe because you chose to utter the words. To win this one with me.. I need something more than words... show me a video or something reproducible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 17 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: moving the goalposts..... ever so predictable Creation is a story that you expect others to believe because you chose to utter the words. To win this one with me.. I need something more than words... show me a video or something reproducible. There are literally thousands of articles and videos on the subject. All you have to do is go to creation.com and start reading or watching videos. Words whether spoken or written down are what all knowledge rests on. That is all there is. If you don't accept what is written, you are in big trouble. It means you don't accept what anyone else says unless it fits your world view. That is your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, impartialobserver said: moving the goalposts..... ever so predictable Creation is a story that you expect others to believe because you chose to utter the words. To win this one with me.. I need something more than words... show me a video or something reproducible. As I said creation.com has many, many articles and videos. I would urge you to give this your utmost attention. It could determine your eternal destiny. Going by the Bible, it is a matter of the highest urgency and concern. " Death is the result of sin in the world, and without the hope of a Savior to forgive us for our sins, we are under the wrath of God. But thanks be to God that He sent His only Son to die for our sins and rise again to give believers eternal life in Jesus Christ (John 3:16). While we still face the physical consequences of living in a fallen world, death, we can set our hope in the promises of God through Jesus Christ, and rest secure knowing heaven awaits those who die in Christ. " 25 Comforting Bible Verses about Death, Dying in Christ | Anchored in Christ (kevinhalloran.net) So while some people think evolution or creation is of little importance, when you think about it, it is of major importance because it shapes how one views Holy Scripture and belief in the gospel of salvation. We are either just a cosmic accident in a universe which happened by chance or some cosmic accident or we were created by an infinitely powerful God who had a purpose in mind. I believe that we were created for a purpose. If one does not believe the Bible and Jesus Christ, he is living a life of hopelessness with nothing to look forward to. The truth in the Bible is the only thing that brings meaning to life and a good hope for the future. Edited February 27 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 8 hours ago, blackbird said: But thanks be to God that He sent His only Son to die for our sins and rise again to give believers eternal life in Jesus Christ (John 3:16). How can it be "eternal"? I thought that only God is eternal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 (edited) 21 hours ago, blackbird said: You claim to believe in Jesus, yet you have no idea what you are talking about and make repeated false claims. As I said, you need to seek a good Bible counsellor or believer to meet regularly, maybe in a church. If that is true, you better stop posting nonsense on the forum and go find a knowledgeable believer to study the Bible with. You think scripture says we are saved by faith alone but that is disregarded throughout scripture and church history yet you persist in preaching error. I bet a "good" bible counsellor or believer is anyone who agrees with your interpretation. Am I right? Let's save time, of course I am. 2 hours ago, Gator said: How can it be "eternal"? I thought that only God is eternal. If we are with Christ and Christ is eternal how could it not be? Edited February 27 by Yakuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 19 minutes ago, Yakuda said: You think scripture says we are saved by faith alone but that is disregarded throughout scripture and church history yet you persist in preaching error. Here are a hundred plus verses again that show you are wrong and persist in your error. quote Genesis 15:6: “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.” Habakkuk 2:4: “Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.” Mark 1:15: “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.” Luke 7:50: “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.” John 1:12: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” John 3:(14,)15: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.“ John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.” John 6:40: “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. “ John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” John 8:24: “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” John 11:25: “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” John 12:46: “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.” John 16:27: “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.” John 20:31: “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” Acts 2:21: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Acts 5:14: “And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)” Acts 8:12: “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:13: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.” Acts 8:37 (8:35-38): “Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” Acts 10:43: “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Acts 11:17,18: “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” Acts 11:21: “And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.” Acts 13:39: “And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” Acts 13:48: “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 15:7-9: “And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.” Acts 16:31: “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 18:8: “And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.” Acts 22:16: “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Acts 26:18: “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.” Romans 1:16: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:17: “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” Romans 3:22a: “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:” Romans 3:25: “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;” Romans 3:26: “To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” Romans 3:28: “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:30: “Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” Romans 4:3: “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:9: “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.” Romans 4:11: “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:” Romans 4:13: “For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.” Romans 4:16,17: “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.” Romans 4:18-22: “Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah’s womb: he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.” Romans 5:1: “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” Romans 5:2: “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” Romans 4:20-25: “He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” Romans 9:30: “What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.” Romans 9:32,33: “Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Romans 10:4: “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Romans 10:6a: “But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise…” Romans 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:10: “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:11: “For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Romans 10:13: “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:14-17: “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 11:20: “Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” 1 Corinthians 1:21: “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.” 1 Corinthians 15:2: “By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.” 1 Corinthians 15:17: “And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” 2 Corinthians 4:4: “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 6:14: “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” 2 Corinthians 6:15: “And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?” Galatians 2:16: “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Galatians 2:20: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Galatians 3:6,7: “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:8: “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” Galatians 3:11: “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.” Galatians 3:14: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Galatians 3:22: “But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.” Galatians 3:24: “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” Galatians 3:26: “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 5:5: “For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.” Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” Ephesians 1:19: “And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,” Ephesians 2:8,9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Philippians 3:9: “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” Colossians 1:4,5: “Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, wherefore ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;” Colossians 2:12: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.” 1 Thessalonians 2:13: “For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” 2 Thessalonians 1:10: “When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.” 2 Thessalonians 2:12: “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” 1 Timothy 1:16: “Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.” 1 Timothy 4:10: “For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” 2 Timothy 3:15: “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” Hebrews 3:18: “And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?” Hebrews 4:2: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.” Hebrews 4:3a: “For we which have believed do enter into rest…” Hebrews 11:7: “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.” Hebrews 11:31: “By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.” Hebrews 10:38: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.” Hebrews 10:39: “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” Hebrews 11:6: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” James 2:5: “Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” James 2:23: “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.” 1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” 1 Peter 1:9: “Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.” 1 Peter 1:18-21: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”1 Peter 2:6: “Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.” 1 Peter 2:7: “Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,” 1 John 5:1a: “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God…” 1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” 1 John 5:5: “Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” 1 John 5:10: “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.” 1 John 5:13: “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” unquote 100+ Bible Verses On Salvation By Faith Alone | New Covenant Baptist Church - Spokane, WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 (edited) 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: Here are a hundred plus verses again that show you are wrong and persist in your error. quote Genesis 15:6: “And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.” Habakkuk 2:4: “Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.” Mark 1:15: “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Mark 16:16: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.” Luke 7:50: “And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.” Luke 8:12: “Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.” John 1:12: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” John 3:(14,)15: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.“ John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.” John 6:40: “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. “ John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.” John 7:38: “He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” John 8:24: “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” John 11:25: “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” John 12:46: “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.” John 16:27: “For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.” John 20:31: “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” Acts 2:21: “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Acts 5:14: “And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)” Acts 8:12: “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.” Acts 8:13: “Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.” Acts 8:37 (8:35-38): “Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” Acts 10:43: “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” Acts 11:17,18: “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” Acts 11:21: “And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.” Acts 13:39: “And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” Acts 13:48: “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 15:7-9: “And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.” Acts 16:31: “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 18:8: “And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.” Acts 22:16: “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Acts 26:18: “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.” Romans 1:16: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:17: “For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” Romans 3:22a: “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:” Romans 3:25: “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;” Romans 3:26: “To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” Romans 3:28: “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Romans 3:30: “Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” Romans 4:3: “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.” Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:9: “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.” Romans 4:11: “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:” Romans 4:13: “For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.” Romans 4:16,17: “Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.” Romans 4:18-22: “Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah’s womb: he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.” Romans 5:1: “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” Romans 5:2: “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” Romans 4:20-25: “He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.” Romans 9:30: “What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.” Romans 9:32,33: “Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Romans 10:4: “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Romans 10:6a: “But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise…” Romans 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:10: “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:11: “For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.” Romans 10:13: “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:14-17: “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 11:20: “Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” 1 Corinthians 1:21: “For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.” 1 Corinthians 15:2: “By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.” 1 Corinthians 15:17: “And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” 2 Corinthians 4:4: “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 6:14: “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” 2 Corinthians 6:15: “And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?” Galatians 2:16: “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Galatians 2:20: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” Galatians 3:6,7: “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.” Galatians 3:8: “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” Galatians 3:11: “But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.” Galatians 3:14: “That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Galatians 3:22: “But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.” Galatians 3:24: “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.” Galatians 3:26: “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 5:5: “For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.” Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” Ephesians 1:19: “And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,” Ephesians 2:8,9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Philippians 3:9: “And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” Colossians 1:4,5: “Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, wherefore ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;” Colossians 2:12: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.” 1 Thessalonians 2:13: “For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.” 2 Thessalonians 1:10: “When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.” 2 Thessalonians 2:12: “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” 1 Timothy 1:16: “Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.” 1 Timothy 4:10: “For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” 2 Timothy 3:15: “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” Hebrews 3:18: “And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?” Hebrews 4:2: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.” Hebrews 4:3a: “For we which have believed do enter into rest…” Hebrews 11:7: “By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.” Hebrews 11:31: “By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.” Hebrews 10:38: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.” Hebrews 10:39: “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” Hebrews 11:6: “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” James 2:5: “Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?” James 2:23: “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.” 1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” 1 Peter 1:9: “Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.” 1 Peter 1:18-21: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”1 Peter 2:6: “Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.” 1 Peter 2:7: “Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,” 1 John 5:1a: “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God…” 1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.” 1 John 5:5: “Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?” 1 John 5:10: “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.” 1 John 5:13: “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” unquote 100+ Bible Verses On Salvation By Faith Alone | New Covenant Baptist Church - Spokane, WA Not one of those verses says faith ALONE. Prove me wrong. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdoms if heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of my heavenly Father". Oops AGAIN volume is not a replacement for accuracy Edited February 27 by Yakuda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Yakuda said: Not one of those verses says faith ALONE. Prove me wrong. When the verses use the word believeth, believe, or similar it obviously amounts to the same thing. Any one with even a basic knowledge of grammar would know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, blackbird said: When the verses use the word believeth, believe, or similar it obviously amounts to the same thing. Any one with even a basic knowledge of grammar would know that. Right it amounts to belief being necessary but it's not only belief that saves as has been pointed out to you not by me but Jesus. You can keep repeating the same erroneous ideas but scripture is clear faith alone is dead. Don't get snippy with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 On 2/26/2024 at 1:57 PM, blackbird said: There are literally thousands of articles and videos on the subject. All you have to do is go to creation.com and start reading or watching videos. Words whether spoken or written down are what all knowledge rests on. That is all there is. If you don't accept what is written, you are in big trouble. It means you don't accept what anyone else says unless it fits your world view. That is your problem. words by themselves are not evidence... Just because it is written down by someone at a given time does not mean that it is evidence of anything.. Come on now, lets not play stupid. There are plenty of things that you have read that you would not qualify as absolute, reproducible evidence of something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 On 2/27/2024 at 2:07 PM, impartialobserver said: words by themselves are not evidence... Just because it is written down by someone at a given time does not mean that it is evidence of anything.. Come on now, lets not play stupid. There are plenty of things that you have read that you would not qualify as absolute, reproducible evidence of something. Words give us reports of everything. That is how events, science, news, history, etc. is all recorded for our benefit. We have to study things and determine it's truth and accuracy. The veracity of what one reads can only be determined by the person reading it. You have to make that judgment yourself. But to say written information can never be absolute truth is nonsensical and irrational. How else can anyone know anything about anything if not by written information? It is up to the reader to determine what is true and what is false. Some things may have to be investigated further from other sources to verify something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 12 hours ago, blackbird said: Words give us reports of everything. That is how events, science, news, history, etc. is all recorded for our benefit. We have to study things and determine it's truth and accuracy. The veracity of what one reads can only be determined by the person reading it. You have to make that judgment yourself. But to say written information can never be absolute truth is nonsensical and irrational. How else can anyone know anything about anything if not by written information? It is up to the reader to determine what is true and what is false. Some things may have to be investigated further from other sources to verify something. Kind of like reading sola scriptura and sola fide into scripture. Jesus says one thing but you decide what he means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, Yakuda said: Kind of like reading sola scriptura and sola fide into scripture. Jesus says one thing but you decide what he means. I believe what Jesus said in the Bible. Jesus is the word. The whole Bible came from Jesus. You only accept what the Catholic catechism tells you Jesus said. You reject over a hundred verses that the Bible say on salvation by faith; you reject all that and claim Jesus said something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, blackbird said: I believe what Jesus said in the Bible. Jesus is the word. The whole Bible came from Jesus. You only accept what the Catholic catechism tells you Jesus said. You reject over a hundred verses that the Bible say on salvation by faith; you reject all that and claim Jesus said something else. No you ignore Jesus. Salvation IS by faith AND following the will of the heavenly Father. Faith without works is dead faith. You don't listen to the word of God you listen to the word of the loony little monk Luther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, Yakuda said: No you ignore Jesus. Salvation IS by faith AND following the will of the heavenly Father. Faith without works is dead faith. You don't listen to the word of God you listen to the word of the loony little monk Luther. No, I don't. Luther never wrote the Bible, but he received God's grace to discover what the Bible teaches was totally different than what Rome had been teaching. He found Romans taught salvation is by grace through faith. Rome was busy selling indulgences to sinners. If you paid the money you could receive forgiveness for certain sins, even sins that had not yet been committed. So people were buying these indulgences. This horrified Luther, which of course it should. Imagine Rome through their puppet Tetzel was making lots of money for Rome selling papers that purportedly gave forgiveness for certain sins. That was a wake-up call for the Reformers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, blackbird said: No, I don't. Luther never wrote the Bible, but he received God's grace to discover what the Bible teaches was totally different than what Rome had been teaching. He found Romans taught salvation is by grace through faith. Rome was busy selling indulgences to sinners. If you paid the money you could receive forgiveness for certain sins, even sins that had not yet been committed. So people were buying these indulgences. This horrified Luther, which of course it should. Imagine Rome through their puppet Tetzel was making lots of money for Rome selling papers that purportedly gave forgiveness for certain sins. That was a wake-up call for the Reformers. No he perverted it. You buy the perversion. Faith alone is dead faith. That's you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Yakuda said: No he perverted it. You buy the perversion. Faith alone is dead faith. That's you. That is a false interpretation. Salvation is by faith because justification comes by an individual faith in Jesus shedding his blood and dying on the cross for him personally. Nobody can earn salvation. It is a gift of God by grace through faith. Once one is saved by God's grace through faith, then he can work. But he cannot earn his salvation by doing good works. Paul condemns that idea in Galatians. Ephesians 2:8,9 reject the idea works has any part in salvation. The Bible is so clear on this that you would have to be rejecting the Bible to not see it or be willfully blind. Remember salvation comes first in an instant; then the Christian can do good works or live a Christ honouring life. The idea of doing works to earn salvation is unbiblical and repugnant. It is the epitome of false religion. Salvation is not an ongoing process as Rome teaches. That is a denial of the true gospel. Also nobody can atone for their own sins. NO priest can grant forgiveness with "absolution". One must go to God through Jesus Christ and be born again. Then they are forgiven. Masses, confessions to priests, penances, all these things are unbiblical and cannot pay for sins. Edited February 29 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuda Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Just now, blackbird said: That is a false interpretation. Salvation is by faith because justification comes by Jesus shedding his blood and dying on the cross. Nobody can earn salvation. It is a gift of God by grace through faith. Once one is saved by God's grace through faith, then he can work. But he cannot earn his salvation by doing good works. Paul condemns that idea in Galatians. Ephesians 2:8,9 reject the idea works has any part in salvation. The Bible is so clear on this that you would have to be rejected the Bible to not know it. Remember salvation comes first in an instant; then the Christian can do good works or live a Christ honouring life. Salvation is not an ongoing process as Rome teaches. That is a denial of the true gospel. Also nobody can atone for their own sins. NO priest can grant forgiveness with "absolution". One must go to God through Jesus Christ and be born again. Then they are forgiven. Masses, confessions to priests, penances, all these things are unbiblical and cannot pay for sins. Faith without works is dead. Thousands of passages they say faith saves wont change that faith alone is dead. You do all the mental and theological gymnastics you'd like to justify your perverted interpretations it doesn't change the facts. As to forgiveness of sins John 20: 22-23. You lose again. You never get tired of that it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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