Hundreds of trans teens under 18 have had breasts removed in Canada, new data show

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Would you prefer Child Protective Services be called because the child is clearly afraid to tell their parents they feel they are a different gender? 

So your claim is that ALL children who are reluctant to tell their parents are about to be abused.  Parents are SO violent that the MAJORITY of them will hurt the child if they find out.

And your premise is that in order to solve this - we should teach the child to lie because then when the parents find out the truth AND that they were lied to on top of it, that won't make them anywhere near as angry.

This is how you think the universe works.

If anything, teacher's can call someone to talk to the kid about how to approach their parents AND if necessary they can meet with the parents and the kid to help the process and talk to the parents about what's going on.  Or meet with the parents before hand.

Kids are nervous to tell their parents ANYTHING they think may disappoint them.  That doesn't mean they're in danger or that they should be taken away from the parents. And it doesn't mean that parents are some evil group waiting for an excuse to beat their kid.  FFS.  THis is why we need laws protecting folks against people like you.

[CdnFox]

50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Nice story... 

Everybody... let's shape our health policies based on this story.

(Transition regret rate is low, just fyi)

I guess that's one way of saying "if we just mock everyone's legitiamte concerns instead of trying to have a dialogue things will probably work out fine right?"

Kids are in the streets stomping on pride flags, the notwithstanding clause is being used to put a cap on trans rights, and the million person march was very successful. So how's that working for you?

BTW - it's ZERO if you don't allow children to be mutilated in the first place.

[Boges]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So your claim is that ALL children who are reluctant to tell their parents are about to be abused.  Parents are SO violent that the MAJORITY of them will hurt the child if they find out.

And your premise is that in order to solve this - we should teach the child to lie because then when the parents find out the truth AND that they were lied to on top of it, that won't make them anywhere near as angry.

This is how you think the universe works.

If anything, teacher's can call someone to talk to the kid about how to approach their parents AND if necessary they can meet with the parents and the kid to help the process and talk to the parents about what's going on.  Or meet with the parents before hand.

Kids are nervous to tell their parents ANYTHING they think may disappoint them.  That doesn't mean they're in danger or that they should be taken away from the parents. And it doesn't mean that parents are some evil group waiting for an excuse to beat their kid.  FFS.  THis is why we need laws protecting folks against people like you.

I think any parent should look in their own mirror if they create an environment where a child feels they can't confide in them and is more comfortable talking to a teacher. 

A solutions certainly aren't laws forcing teachers to taddle on their students. 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

I guess that's one way of saying "if we just mock everyone's legitiamte concerns instead of trying to have a dialogue things will probably work out fine right?"

Kids are in the streets stomping on pride flags, the notwithstanding clause is being used to put a cap on trans rights, and the million person march was very successful. So how's that working for you?

BTW - it's ZERO if you don't allow children to be mutilated in the first place.

Is it also a legit concern that Trans kids are way more likely to commit suicide? 

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/

Quote

 

Top-Line Statistics

Suicide is the second leading cause of death among young people aged 10 to 24 (Hedegaard, Curtin, & Warner, 2018) — and lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and questioning (LGBTQ) youth are at significantly increased risk.

LGBTQ youth are more than four times as likely to attempt suicide than their peers (Johns et al., 2019; Johns et al., 2020).

The Trevor Project estimates that more than 1.8 million LGBTQ youth (13-24) seriously consider suicide each year in the U.S. — and at least one attempts suicide every 45 seconds.

The Trevor Project’s 2022 National Survey on LGBTQ Youth Mental Health found that 45% of LGBTQ youth seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year, including more than half of transgender and nonbinary youth.

 

 

[CdnFox]

Just now, Boges said:

I think any parent should look in their own mirror if they create an environment where a child feels they can't confide in them and is more comfortable talking to a teacher. 

 

Never been a oarent i take it.

Kids get all kinds of crap into their heads. And their peers often don't help.

When i was a teen i had a buddy who's parents always told both of us 'if you get drunk at a party and you need a lift or something, you call me and we won't be mad".  They were loving parents to him, never raised a hand,  a very healthy environment.

When he got badly drunk one time, he refused to call them because "they'd be mad".  I called them for him ( i had another way home) and of course they got him and guess what - they didn't even kill him once.  But he was sure they'd be furious. Honestly - i think they laughed about it when he wasn't looking, they weren't angry.

Do you feel YOU would be the kind of parent who would beat their kid for telling them something that wasn't true? Is that where this is coming from? most parents are used to their kids not wanting to 'get in trouble' or the like.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Is it also a legit concern that Trans kids are way more likely to commit suicide?

 

Nope -  first off your study only discusses LGBTQ - not 'trans' specfic. So kinda  useless,

But there are such studies out there, i've read the actual studies rather than just an article about the study.

And while trans kids claim suicidal thoughts more often, they don't actually kill themselves at any different ratio. The "attempted suicides" use a very very very relaxed definition of that term.

Further this is all by survey - anyone can say anything but none of it is actually verified.  Dead bodies we can count though - and the trans kids aren't killing themselves at any relevantly different rate.

And that's what yo'll notice with all these studies -  trans kids "Think about" suicide more, they claim that they "Attempt" suicide more.. but they don't actually commit suicide more.

So what that tells me is that they're having a really really crappy time of it and are depressed and there's a feeling of isolation and probably hopelessness, but not ot the point where they actually want to die.

So - we should address that. We should look at treating little bobby like little barbie if that helps, we should be supportive we should work with parents to help them understand.

But -  you will NOT make it better by teaching them to lie, nor will you make it better by permanently altering children with operations or chemical castration.

 

[Boges]

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Do you feel YOU would be the kind of parent who would beat their kid for telling them something that wasn't true? Is that where this is coming from? most parents are used to their kids not wanting to 'get in trouble' or the like.

You're conflating getting drunk at a party with how a child chooses to identify themself. 

I think the way certain people are acting towards the idea of Trans kids in public, trans kid certainly should feel afraid of their parents. Especially if they're super religious. 

You're basically telling teachers to our their student. They're not committing a crime. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Boges

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But -  you will NOT make it better by teaching them to lie,

No one is doing that.

You're the last person on Earth who should be weighing in on this if your ridiculous obsession with lying is at the heart of your issue with it. You clearly can't think straight or discuss anything rationally about anything because of it.

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

You're conflating getting drunk at a party with how a child chooses to identify themself. 

OOOO - that's one of my FAVORITE dishonest leftie debate technique - PRETEND that what i said is that the two things are the same thing instead of looking at the point that was raised    How very childish - but always good for a laugh

Honest people of course will see that the point is entirely valid - kids think they'll get in trouble for things even if they were raised in open and loving homes and their parents have talked to them about it.  Blaming parents is simply stupid

Quote

I think the way certain people are acting towards the idea of Trans kids in public, trans kid certainly should feel afraid of their parents. Especially if they're super religious. 

Well that would make you a bad person. What a life you must have lived to think that people would harm their children if they're religious. the vast majority of people love their kids and while they might be disappointed or even angry initially their kids are perfectly safe - and this is what familes do. they work shit out.

Your belief that parents are out there looking for an excuse to harm their children is disgusting and diingenuous. The numbers do not support that in the slighest.

Quote

You're basically telling teachers to our their student. They're not committing a crime. 

Teachers have a duty to inform the parents of what's happening with the students when they're under their care. Especially if there's a medical issue. Being gay might be one thing, that's not a 'health' issue, but transgenderism absolutely is a strong sign of gender disphoria and a medical issue.  Didn't you just claim they're at a higher risk of suicide? And you're going to keep that from the parent?

And you STILL Havent' explained why the parents will be LESS mad or angry when they find out later that their kid is trans AND they lied about it to them because they were telling people they feared for their safety.

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by CdnFox

[Boges]

44 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

OOOO - that's one of my FAVORITE dishonest leftie debate technique - PRETEND that what i said is that the two things are the same thing instead of looking at the point that was raised    How very childish - but always good for a laugh

Honest people of course will see that the point is entirely valid - kids think they'll get in trouble for things even if they were raised in open and loving homes and their parents have talked to them about it.  Blaming parents is simply stupid.

You're the one using the example of a drunk child. Do you surmise that a child who feels they are trans are in trouble and require intervention? If you feel that way, maybe that's the reason they don't want to tell you. 

 

Quote

Teachers have a duty to inform the parents of what's happening with the students when they're under their care. Especially if there's a medical issue. Being gay might be one thing, that's not a 'health' issue, but transgenderism absolutely is a strong sign of gender disphoria and a medical issue.  Didn't you just claim they're at a higher risk of suicide? And you're going to keep that from the parent?

Do you assume a child whom wants to use different pronouns will automatically want to mutilate themselves? Because the laws are focused on simply the use of different pronouns.  

 

Quote

And you STILL Havent' explained why the parents will be LESS mad or angry when they find out later that their kid is trans AND they lied about it to them because they were telling people they feared for their safety.

As you've demonstrated, kids lie all the time, about a variety of issues. I would say to any parent, including myself; "look in the mirror" if your kids doesn't feel they can be honest about who they are.

Don't blame teachers. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Boges

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

You're the one using the example of a drunk child. Do you surmise that a child who feels they are trans are in trouble and require intervention? If you feel that way, maybe that's the reason they don't want to tell you.

It's about how the child feels.  In both cases they feel they'll be in trouble -in both cases they're wrong

But you knew that - you obviously realize that you're in the wrong here so you're trying to twist what was said.

maybe it's YOUR parents that need the talking to, raising you to be dishonest like that .

Quote

Do you assume a child whom wants to use different pronouns will automatically want to mutilate themselves? Because the laws are focused on simply the use of different pronouns.  

The desire to use different pronouns indicates that they are transgender and at very high risk of gender disphoria

You claimed that made them high suicide risks. Are you saying that's not the case?

You sure ask a lot of questions for someone who's unwillng to answer them.

Quote

As you've demonstrated, kids lie all the time, about a variety of issues. I would say to any parent, including myself; "look in the mirror" if your kids doesn't feel they can be honest about who they are.

Well then you've never had kids or you're a shitty parent.  It is not the fault of the parents that kids are that way, ALL kids are that way. Your job as a parent is to help them through those kinds of struggles and to learn to have the courage to face their fears and be honest with people even when they don't really want to be.

Quote

Don't blame teachers. 

It's 100 percent the teachers fault if they are teaching the kids that it's ok to lie like that.  Sorry.

 

Now - how about you answer some of my questions - unless you're just a lying sack of crap who prefers virtue signalling and doesn't actually care at all about kids ....

How does their lying today help make things better when the family finds out later anyway AND has to deal with the lies?

Do you disagree that parents should be made aware of serious medical issues with children?

If the teachers don't want to take responsibility for their role in the situation why are tehy getting involved?

What evidence do you have that kids would be  in physical harm from their parents if they told them anything and why wouldn't we pull those kids form those homes if the risk of violence is that high?

Care to start answering for a change?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

No one is doing that.

 

Of course they are.

 

Quote

You're the last person on Earth who should be weighing in on this if your ridiculous obsession with lying is at the heart of your issue with it. You clearly can't think straight or discuss anything rationally about anything because of it.

Says the guy who lies constantly,

IT's a hallmark of today's left wing that they have to be dishonest to promote their viewpoints and you're one of the worst.  Don't be mad at me just because i point it out often enough - you're the one who makes it so easy to prove.  Try being honest if you don't like everyone thinking of you as a liar.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Of course they are.

Cite please, ie Instructions given to educators that include the words lie to or deceive parents .

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Don't be mad at me just because i point it out often enough

I'm not mad at all, I'm amused at your inability to attach any evidence whatsoever to your claims. Ever.

Edited October 3, 2023 by eyeball

[Boges]

38 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It's about how the child feels.  In both cases they feel they'll be in trouble -in both cases they're wrong

How can you know that. We're talking about hypotheticals. These laws remove the reality from the situation and forces a teacher to break a confidence a child has made in them. Black and White, no Grey area. That's what I oppose. 

Quote

 

But you knew that - you obviously realize that you're in the wrong here so you're trying to twist what was said.

maybe it's YOUR parents that need the talking to, raising you to be dishonest like that .

 

Yep just get to the Ad hominem attacks. Great way to prove you're making an intelligent point. 

 

Quote

The desire to use different pronouns indicates that they are transgender and at very high risk of gender disphoria

I could see why your child wouldn't want to tell you about their truth. You make assumptions like this. 

 

Quote

You claimed that made them high suicide risks. Are you saying that's not the case?

Mostly because how they are treated by others. You know the type of people that protest trans rights? 

 

Quote

How does their lying today help make things better when the family finds out later anyway AND has to deal with the lies?

Keeping secrets is not lying. 

 

Quote

Do you disagree that parents should be made aware of serious medical issues with children?

The fact you think wanting to go by a different pronoun is a serious medical issue tips your hand that you're the type of person that would act negatively to a child that feels they are trans. 

 

Quote

If the teachers don't want to take responsibility for their role in the situation why are tehy getting involved?

Perhaps the child actually trusts them, unlike these hypothetical parents we're debating. 

Quote

What evidence do you have that kids would be  in physical harm from their parents if they told them anything and why wouldn't we pull those kids form those homes if the risk of violence is that high?

Well Conservatives used to like to talk about Honour killings all the time. I guess that doesn't apply here. I'm not suggesting that that's likely but it's possible. Or a parent my disown their child, throw them out of the house. Anything. We can't know because we're debating hypotheticals.  

Edited October 3, 2023 by Boges

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Cite please, ie Instructions given to educators that include the words lie to or deceive the student.

 

No need - they're passing a law to prevent it so problem solved. Andi think you mean the parent. You get

But what the hell - i'll throw you a bone this one time

https://nationalpost.com/news/schools-consent-transgender-gender-transition

Boards are urging schools to both automatically honour request to change a student’s name and pronouns, and not to tell parents

So turns out you're a lying sack of crap yet again when you claimed this wasn't happening. Teachers are being told specifically to do exactly that. They are being told to lie by omission even if they're speaking to the parents.

Worse - they're teaching entire classes to lie by omission:

Quote

When a student in a Calgary Grade 6 class came out as transgender this year, the teacher made one thing clear to the other pupils: they mustn’t let slip their classmate’s new gender identity to her parents. The couple was not yet aware of the change.

It seemed like an odd message for a group of 11-year-olds, says the mother of one of the pupils.“This upset me so much,” she says. “Kids were being taught to lie to parents.”

The message is clear - lie to and deceive the parents of the child. Keep secrets from them and hide the truth.

There you go - explicit instructions from the school board and then explicit instructions from a teacher to a whole class.

 

Now - you've been given exactly what you asked for. But because you're a lying leftie piece of crap most of the time my suspicion is that rather than deal with this honestly and discuss whether teachers should be teaching children to lie, you'll try to claim outrage that teachers should be held accountable for their actions  and/or you'll try some pathetic weasel-lawyer argument to suggest somehow telling children to lie to another kid's parents isn't a lie because of some imaginary technical reason when it clearly is.

Which would be typical for you.

 

 

 

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

How can you know that. We're talking about hypotheticals. These laws remove the reality from the situation and forces a teacher to break a confidence a child has made in them. Black and White, no Grey area. That's what I oppose. 

 

What a dishonestpeice of shit you are.  I very specifically said it was a personal experience.  But you're going to lie and pretend it was hypothetical when you know it isn't.

Lets get to your equally bullshit answers

Lying by omission is a lie.  You're telling your parents you're a boy, when you're telling your teacher you're a girl.  You're lying to one of them.

Gender dysphoria is a serious medical condition and pretending it isn't is dishonest - especialy right after YOU claimed it lead to increases in suicide. If it is NOT a serious condition why are we making any accomodation for it at all?

Nobody asked why the student is telling the teacher - the question was why is the teacher getting involved if they don't want to be held to account for their actions?  I notice you dodged that question didn't you .

And no - canadians don't participate in "honor killings"  and you liberals freaked out when it was even suggested before .

And you're clearly saying it's likely.

 

And what about the big one - how does lying to the parents today make them LESS likely to be angry about it in the future? You've dodged that one a few times now.

 

This is why we need the laws - to protect against people like you.

[Nexii]

If anything, there needs to be more laws to protect children from hateful parents. Every child deserves a loving family. If parents don't accept their child, then there should be an out to be adopted. 

In time, not affirming will be viewed like hitting your child is now. If you look at the survey demographics, young women overwhelming accept LGBT. Meaning that in a generation, their views will be passed on and dated attitudes will die out. 

[Boges]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

What a dishonestpeice of shit you are.  I very specifically said it was a personal experience.  But you're going to lie and pretend it was hypothetical when you know it isn't.

Personal experience from a drunk friend. Not particularly comparable to having a Trans kid. 

Your emotion on this speaks to a complete lack of perspective on this. 

 

Quote

Lying by omission is a lie.  You're telling your parents you're a boy, when you're telling your teacher you're a girl.  You're lying to one of them.

You assume the parent cares enough to ask. If the child is dressing up like the other gender, perhaps you don't need the school's help. I still would need an actual real world example to show where a school completely hoodwinked an otherwise loving parent. 

Quote

Gender dysphoria is a serious medical condition and pretending it isn't is dishonest - especialy right after YOU claimed it lead to increases in suicide. If it is NOT a serious condition why are we making any accomodation for it at all?

I think this attitude is exactly why a child would want to keep it a secret. 

Quote

Nobody asked why the student is telling the teacher - the question was why is the teacher getting involved if they don't want to be held to account for their actions?  I notice you dodged that question didn't you .

If the teacher was co-ordinating a gender affirming care, I would agree with you, that's not the teacher's place.  But if the teacher simply calling the student a pronoun of choice, I don't see how that's "getting involved". 

Quote

And no - canadians don't participate in "honor killings"  and you liberals freaked out when it was even suggested before .

Well I'm not a Liberal, or at least I don't vote that way. That being said, seeing the mouth-frothing hatred that seems to be coming from the Right lately, I keep moving further to left every day. Conservatives most certainly mentioned "barbaric" cultural practices in the past. Was that wrong of them? 

Quote

And what about the big one - how does lying to the parents today make them LESS likely to be angry about it in the future? You've dodged that one a few times now

I think I told you, my opinion is that a parent should consider why a child lies before they get "angry". If being dishonest results in rage from a parent, like you're suggesting it could, that could be the very reason why a child may feel uncomfortable being honest with a parent 

Quote

This is why we need the laws - to protect against people like you.

I'm not a teacher. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Boges

[Michael Hardner]

Can the true conservatives and liberals on here please stop tolerating Chud logic in these discussions ?  Thank you.

[Michael Hardner]

On 10/2/2023 at 6:00 PM, Army Guy said:

Your assuming that ALL students have agreed to this, when they have not.... but it is "school policy" , also many provinces have laws preventing parents from being informed, not to tell parents...as in NB, Sask  case they are changing that policy to now include parents...

I am not.  That's Chud logic. 

When students - plural of student because a reasonable assumption is that this would happen more than once - ask a teacher for advise, or to keep their thoughts secret then they want the teacher to do so.

I also don't accept your generalizations that it's "school policy" or provincial law without a cite.  I don't trust you to understand/report the facts properly.  Informing parents doesn't seem like a bad idea to me in general, but i would involve a counsellor.

And for the record, provincial politicians are taking advantage of ignorance and they - and many parents - are using irresponsible language and are being dishonest in discussions on this.  If they care as much as they say they do then they will be responsible in discussing the issue.

[Nexii]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am not.  That's Chud logic. 

When students - plural of student because a reasonable assumption is that this would happen more than once - ask a teacher for advise, or to keep their thoughts secret then they want the teacher to do so.

I also don't accept your generalizations that it's "school policy" or provincial law without a cite.  I don't trust you to understand/report the facts properly.  Informing parents doesn't seem like a bad idea to me in general, but i would involve a counsellor.

And for the record, provincial politicians are taking advantage of ignorance and they - and many parents - are using irresponsible language and are being dishonest in discussions on this.  If they care as much as they say they do then they will be responsible in discussing the issue.

Being required to out a child and requiring parental consent to go by the another gender & name are two very different things. But the chuds can't understand that simple logic.

A teacher can keep it a secret while saying "you need parental consent per the policy". 

Also, the policies have not said that teachers must out students.

Finally, age 16 is setting the bar extremely high when the age of consent for sex itself is lower than that. So you can legally have sex at 15 but can't decide your gender at 15? I think in the end that age will be lowered, like when the age for homosexual sex was set much higher at 18. That was found to be discriminatory

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

Personal experience from a drunk friend. Not particularly comparable to having a Trans kid.

100 percent comarable. Kids frequently think they're going to get into trouble when in reality they're not. It really doesn't matter what the specific issue is, they do.  All the time. Every actual parent out there knows i'm telling the truth. Kids hide things rather than even risk getting into trouble because that's basic human nature, parents have to educate them not to be that way over time.

But of course - you're not a parent. And you prefer dishonesty to actually facing the facts.

3 hours ago, Boges said:

I still would need an actual real world example to show where a school completely hoodwinked an otherwise loving parent. 

I already posted a real world example but here it is again if you missed it

https://nationalpost.com/news/schools-consent-transgender-gender-transition

Teacher specifically telling the OTHER CHIDREN to lie to the parents as well. Parent loving and accepting but crushed that the teacher would encourage her kid to lie to her.

And you didn't need that. Just like you don't need a real world example to know murder is wrong  You're just sealioning.

Quote

Conservatives most certainly mentioned "barbaric" cultural practices in the past. Was that wrong of them? 

Was it wrong of them to speak out against killing children for dating soeone?

I dont' think so.  You obviously do.

Again - dishonestly. Are you REALLY suggesting that saying a parent should know what's happening with their kids mental health is the same as a parent demanding the right ro burn their kid in a pizza oven for dating a boy?

What kind of person are you?

And you talk about the hated on the right!  -Listen to yourself!  The right is saying 'please don't mutilate kids till they're old enough to make that decision, and tell parents if there's a serious mental health issue".   You call that hatred.  Meanwhile YOU claim religious parents are likely to harm their children, and conservatives are the same as 'honor killers' for saying parents should have a voice.

You should be deeply ashamed of the person you are thiking like that.  But you're not.  So that's how we know you're already on the left. You're not 'moving closer every day - you've been camped there for some time obviously,

 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

100 percent comarable. Kids frequently think they're going to get into trouble when in reality they're not. It really doesn't matter what the specific issue is, they do.  All the time. Every actual parent out there knows i'm telling the truth. Kids hide things rather than even risk getting into trouble because that's basic human nature, parents have to educate them not to be that way over time.
But of course - you're not a parent. And you prefer dishonesty to actually facing the facts.

I am a parent. My children are young, so any signs of "gender dismorphia" can't really be treated as a mental illness at this point. That being said I do reenforce traditional gender roles to my kids. I don't think that makes me transphobic, but I certainly won't make them feel that any of those feelings are a mental illness in the future. 

Quote

 

I already posted a real world example but here it is again if you missed it

https://nationalpost.com/news/schools-consent-transgender-gender-transition

Teacher specifically telling the OTHER CHIDREN to lie to the parents as well. Parent loving and accepting but crushed that the teacher would encourage her kid to lie to her.

And you didn't need that. Just like you don't need a real world example to know murder is wrong  You're just sealioning.

Was it wrong of them to speak out against killing children for dating soeone?

I dont' think so.  You obviously do.

Again - dishonestly. Are you REALLY suggesting that saying a parent should know what's happening with their kids mental health is the same as a parent demanding the right ro burn their kid in a pizza oven for dating a boy?

What kind of person are you?

 

I did miss this article, Thanks. It encapsulates the debate well. It clarifies the teacher's position. Also I maintain there's a big difference between using a different pronoun and advocating "mutilation" which is the nature of the OP. 

Quote

And you talk about the hated on the right!  -Listen to yourself!  The right is saying 'please don't mutilate kids till they're old enough to make that decision, and tell parents if there's a serious mental health issue".   You call that hatred.  Meanwhile YOU claim religious parents are likely to harm their children, and conservatives are the same as 'honor killers' for saying parents should have a voice.

You need to distinguish the difference between mutilation and using different pronouns. From all evidence I've seen school are simply using the child's pronoun of choice and not telling the parent if the child doesn't wish they do. Again this is only a law in two provinces and the courts have struck it down in one, so I'm not sure if you have the majority opinion here. 

 

Quote

You should be deeply ashamed of the person you are thiking like that.  But you're not.  So that's how we know you're already on the left. You're not 'moving closer every day - you've been camped there for some time obviously,

Perhaps. I'll still vote for the Ontario PC and will probably give PP a shot. But it's refreshing that you make political ideology based on single issue disagreements. 

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Boges said:

I am a parent. My children are young, so any signs of "gender dismorphia" can't really be treated as a mental illness at this point.

Not according to the left - apperenty you could be misgendering them the day you brought them home.  You shouldn't have a say in that. you're just a parent.  (supposedly).

If your kids are toddlers or younger, you may not have realized this yet - but no matter how well you parent kids are still going to hide things from you, be concerned about bringing some things to you and if they have got mental health issues as they move towards theit teens the parents are often the last ones they'll tell, and it's not because they fear being beaten.

22 minutes ago, Boges said:

Also I maintain there's a big difference between using a different pronoun and advocating "mutilation" which is the nature of the OP. 

IT IS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.  Period. You yourself made that claim. YOU claim they're at higher risk of suicide.

It may be true that encouraging the kid to actually alter their body is even WORSE - but you're already way over the line at 'hiding mental health issues'.

Imagine this - you claim to be a parent, it's 10 years from now and you come home and your child has hung themselves. They're dead.  You're asking around trying to figure out what happened, how did he get so depressed and why didn't you know? You talk to his friends, and they admit the child was struggling with gender issues and wanted to be called by the opposite sex in school, but the teacher told the class to make sure to never tell the parents. The school knew the kid was struggling with it for a year.

You don't undersatnd how this could happen - you'd always told the kid that you'd love them no matter what and they can always talk to you,

You get to spend the rest of your life wondering if you had known they were going through that if you could have done something to make a difference.

But a teacher took that chance away from you.

Is that fair? Was that right?  That's what you're advocating for,

Now you get to spend the rest of your life

[blackbird]

21 hours ago, Boges said:

Is it also a legit concern that Trans kids are way more likely to commit suicide? 

Why is that?   The reasons are complex but there is no proof it is because the parents become aware of what is going on.  Of course any parent may be concerned or upset when learning about a child's abnormal behavior.  But that does not mean they do not have a right to know.  They are the primary caregivers and absolutely have a right to be kept informed of what their children are doing.

A psychology website goes into some detail about the causes of why suicide rates are higher for LGBTQ/trans youth.

There are many factors that may contribute to it.  Whether parents know what their kids are doing or don't know may not have any bearing on it.  But it seems to be the left's go-to now to somehow blame the parents for suicide among youth.

quote

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, suicide is the second leading cause of death among youth aged 15 to 24 and the third leading cause of death among youth aged 10 to 14 (CDC, 2010). Among youth who identify as sexual minorities, the likelihood of death by suicide has been estimated to be two to seven times greater than the likelihood of death by suicide among heterosexual youth (Haas et al., 2011). Haas et al. suggest that such a range exists because records of death rarely include a person’s sexual orientation. More precise data exist on the prevalence of suicidal ideation among sexual minority youth, however, with twice as many reporting a desire or intent to die when compared to heterosexual youth (King et al., 2008).

Various theories abound as to why rates of suicide and/or suicidal ideation are higher among youth who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer/questioning, intersex, or asexual (LGBTQ-IA). Chief among them: the minority stress hypothesis and the interpersonal psychological theory of suicide (Russell & Fish, 2016). Irrespective of theoretical orientation, however, most researchers, psychologists, and mental health practitioners agree that youth identifying as a sexual minority are exposed to a higher number of risk factors than their heterosexual counterparts. Sexual minority youth also face several unique risk factors for suicidal ideation and completed suicide (Mustanski & Liu, 2012).

General risk factors for suicide identified over the past several decades include a family history of suicide, childhood maltreatment, having a mental illness (in particular: borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia and psychotic disorders, antisocial personality disorder, conduct disorder, and depression), struggling with substance abuse, experiencing chronic feelings of hopelessness, and having access to a means of completing suicide (i.e., access to a weapon) (Franklin et al., 2017). Perceived burdensomeness and thwarted belongingness have also been shown to increase one’s risk of suicidal ideation and death by suicide (Baams, Grossman, & Russel, 2015). Additionally, a substantial amount of evidence has linked episodes of self-harm to suicidal ideation and suicide attempts. Though the relationship between self-harm and suicide is complicated by the fact that not all episodes of self-harm are directly related to or derivative of an intention to die, a systematic review and meta-analysis by Chan et al. (2016) of various factors correlated with suicide in the wake of self-harm found self-harm to be predictive of death by suicide. The same review also found that poor physical health and male gender increased one’s risk of suicide completion.   unquote

Why Are Suicide Rates Higher Among LGBTQ Youth? | Psychology Today

The truth is which is being left out of this conversation is that the parents and family are the foundation of youth.  It is a fact that a good home and parents are the basis of stable youth of sound mind. 

If you break and divide the family structure you are asking for instability and harm.  That is what leads to suicide ideation and suicide.

Edited October 4, 2023 by blackbird