Global Climate Change...Crisis or Politics?

[Nationalist]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Not at all. The hotter and sooner the better.

Marvie!

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Marvie!

For every degree it goes up, he gets to add another 10 years to 'that time he warned us all about climate change'.  He's hoping that by 2030 he'll be able to say he brought it up just over 100 years ago but nobody would listen!

[cannuck]

Late to the party, but not exactly outside of this topic.

Interesting to want to look at the climate change thing as a component of human/group behaviour as it relates to politics.  There certainly IS a problem there that seldom gets addressed.

First there has to be some kind of prioritization of things we know are actually "the problem" and things we know might be some kind of "solution".   Political processes are one of the worst devices of mankind to deal with such important things.  Most of all, one needs to identify what is the driving mechanism of political policy and action.  IMHO the top of the list is realizing that politics is 99% about assigning privilege - most of the time for the financial benefit or at least perceived benefit of those in power or those who hold sway over them.

The end result is that politics becomes the smokescreen for the truth while the politicos scrap over who gets to benefit from what policies and actions.

We know that climate is changing - not a big surprise since it has done so for billions of years.   The question is the anthropomorphic contribution.   Since politicos are anything but objective scientists, they feed on whatever public opinion evolves or is influenced by circumstance.  The so called "green" movement has gained a life of its own based on the profitability and profile of those who benefit from scaring people and government into financing their fear-based programmes with knee-jerk reactions.  When you get millions sucked into this distortion of reality the politicos have little choice but to jump on the bandwagon to stay in public favour.

Then you get economic activity happening, not because of real market forces, but because of the inrush of cash from people, companies (who have to show a public green face to maintain their perceived position) and the technical base grows from the core of people doing hard science into the mass of bodies recruited to nod their technical heads to the tune of the hysterical initiators and now you have an economically driven massive inertia that sings off of the original song sheet.   Politicos have little choice or skills to look any further.

All of this serves as a genuine if not conscious mask of the real problems.

#1 above all else is our contribution to all environmental damage is directly proportional to population x wealth.  Few politicians have either the brains or the balls to go down that road.  Nothing going to stop it.

#2 is IMHO very close to the magnitude of #1 - damage to the oceans.  We really do NOT have a carbon emissions problem, we have a carbon absorption one.  We have damaged the biota of the oceans so badly the first genuine crisis will be the collapse of phytoplankton - that is by far the largest component of absorbing CO2 and emitting O2.   Diatoms alone account for 42% of all of the oxygen in our atmosphere, but dying off at an alarming rate.   Why?   We are poisoning the oceans with multiple chemicals, the most significant in this case being plastics (the UV blockers and plasticizers at top of the list).  Quick, easy, SIMPLE solution is to stop making and using these things NOW - not to demonize carbon to deviate from solving the real problems.

Instead we get politicos throwing hundreds of billions of tax and incentive driven dollars at total BS such as Li Ion battery powered vehicles.   In other words: fining more expensive, equally damaging and unsustainable ways of doing more of what is causing the problems in the first place.   All at the cost of destroying the existing economic infrastructure to do more virtue signaling instead of addressing and fixing the actual underlying problems.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, cannuck said:

 

1. First there has to be some kind of prioritization of things we know are actually "the problem" and things we know might be some kind of "solution".   Political processes are one of the worst devices of mankind to deal with such important things.  Most of all, one needs to identify what is the driving mechanism of political policy and action.  IMHO the top of the list is realizing that politics is 99% about assigning privilege - most of the time for the financial benefit or at least perceived benefit of those in power or those who hold sway over them. The end result is that politics becomes the smokescreen for the truth while the politicos scrap over who gets to benefit from what policies and actions.

2. The so called "green" movement has gained a life of its own based on the profitability and profile of those who benefit from scaring people and government into financing their fear-based programmes with knee-jerk reactions. 

3. When you get millions sucked into this distortion of reality the politicos have little choice but to jump on the bandwagon to stay in public favour.

4. Then you get economic activity happening, not because of real market forces, but because of the inrush of cash from people, companies (who have to show a public green face to maintain their perceived position)

5.  We have damaged the biota of the oceans so badly the first genuine crisis will be the collapse of phytoplankton - that is by far the largest component of absorbing CO2 and emitting O2.   Diatoms alone account for 42% of all of the oxygen in our atmosphere, but dying off at an alarming rate.   Why?   We are poisoning the oceans with multiple chemicals, the most significant in this case being plastics (the UV blockers and plasticizers at top of the list).  Quick, easy, SIMPLE solution is to stop making and using these things NOW - not to demonize carbon to deviate from solving the real problems.

 

1. I liked the start up until this point... can you explain, for example, how the response to Climate Change, Covid, etc. is "assigning privilege" as an explicit action vs. how privilege just is prioritized generally in society ?  If it's the latter then is it even worth mentioning ?

2. Can't you say that about everything, or at least any challenge you disagree with ?  In my lifetime, Economic challenges, national unity, Global Trade, Climate Change, Security threats are all issues that could fall into this group - from top of mind.

3. You do accept, though, that there are challenges in the public sphere as well as in science that contribute to the politics you're describing.  Such as - the ability for proponents/opponents to an approach to distort scientific facts, the general scientific ignorance of the masses, as well as the inability for any honest science to provide 100% proof of causality for a large majority of physical threats.  Any "politics" has to accept this current situation and come up with a novel solution.

There are some interesting examples of success in the public sphere also.

4.  Ah, but the market is built upon perception.  Right ?

5. Ocean damage is something I know almost nothing about is something I know little to zero about, thanks for this.

The big problem is our public sphere isn't set up to engender trust in institutions at this point.  That's what I got from your post and so I agree with you.

[Legato]

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, Legato said:

Your opinions are so absent that you just post a cut/paste from a pre-fabricated content farm.

And you think that passes for comment.

Your type, if not you alone, are the source of all of our problems.  Please leave the forum, thanks.

[Legato]

44 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Your opinions are so absent that you just post a cut/paste from a pre-fabricated content farm.

And you think that passes for comment.

Your type, if not you alone, are the source of all of our problems.  Please leave the forum, thanks.

My opinion if just as valid as yours, don't blame me for your myopic view.

The source of all your problems is you. get over yourself.

Leave the forum? After you sunshine.

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Legato said:

1. My opinion if just as valid as yours,
2. don't blame me for your myopic view.
3. The source of all your problems is you. get over yourself.
4. Leave the forum? After you sunshine.

 

1.  Is it your opinion?  How convenient that a meme maker knows you well enough to make a meme for you.
2. I didn't read your meme... maybe something about a Climate Change hoax ?  I don't know ... I don't respect meme eaters...
3. That much I know.  But many of my problems originate from you.
4. I've been posting for 20+ years on here.  I will die posting on here...

[Legato]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Is it your opinion?  How convenient that a meme maker knows you well enough to make a meme for you.
2. I didn't read your meme... maybe something about a Climate Change hoax ?  I don't know ... I don't respect meme eaters...
3. That much I know.  But many of my problems originate from you.
4. I've been posting for 20+ years on here.  I will die posting on here...

You sir are being disingenuous. People have different opinions. However when someone does not have the same opinion as yourself, you want them to leave the forum? That is extremely shallow, as proven by the comment "I didn't read your meme".

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Legato said:

You sir are being disingenuous. People have different opinions. However when someone does not have the same opinion as yourself ...

Did you know that for most of our history on RePolitics memes were actually banned ?

I refer to these as the good old days.

It's not about you having a different opinion, it's about having your own opinion.

What happens if I disagree with the meme ?  Are you going to email them in Belarus to come on here and defend their opinion ?

[Legato]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's not about you having a different opinion, it's about having your own opinion.

 

What's that supposed to mean? I'm not supposed to have an opinion?

 

What's this with Belarus, do they have a meme factory employing child labour.

Please drop the pomposity.

[Nationalist]

On 10/30/2023 at 11:33 AM, cannuck said:

Late to the party, but not exactly outside of this topic.

Interesting to want to look at the climate change thing as a component of human/group behaviour as it relates to politics.  There certainly IS a problem there that seldom gets addressed.

First there has to be some kind of prioritization of things we know are actually "the problem" and things we know might be some kind of "solution".   Political processes are one of the worst devices of mankind to deal with such important things.  Most of all, one needs to identify what is the driving mechanism of political policy and action.  IMHO the top of the list is realizing that politics is 99% about assigning privilege - most of the time for the financial benefit or at least perceived benefit of those in power or those who hold sway over them.

The end result is that politics becomes the smokescreen for the truth while the politicos scrap over who gets to benefit from what policies and actions.

We know that climate is changing - not a big surprise since it has done so for billions of years.   The question is the anthropomorphic contribution.   Since politicos are anything but objective scientists, they feed on whatever public opinion evolves or is influenced by circumstance.  The so called "green" movement has gained a life of its own based on the profitability and profile of those who benefit from scaring people and government into financing their fear-based programmes with knee-jerk reactions.  When you get millions sucked into this distortion of reality the politicos have little choice but to jump on the bandwagon to stay in public favour.

Then you get economic activity happening, not because of real market forces, but because of the inrush of cash from people, companies (who have to show a public green face to maintain their perceived position) and the technical base grows from the core of people doing hard science into the mass of bodies recruited to nod their technical heads to the tune of the hysterical initiators and now you have an economically driven massive inertia that sings off of the original song sheet.   Politicos have little choice or skills to look any further.

All of this serves as a genuine if not conscious mask of the real problems.

#1 above all else is our contribution to all environmental damage is directly proportional to population x wealth.  Few politicians have either the brains or the balls to go down that road.  Nothing going to stop it.

#2 is IMHO very close to the magnitude of #1 - damage to the oceans.  We really do NOT have a carbon emissions problem, we have a carbon absorption one.  We have damaged the biota of the oceans so badly the first genuine crisis will be the collapse of phytoplankton - that is by far the largest component of absorbing CO2 and emitting O2.   Diatoms alone account for 42% of all of the oxygen in our atmosphere, but dying off at an alarming rate.   Why?   We are poisoning the oceans with multiple chemicals, the most significant in this case being plastics (the UV blockers and plasticizers at top of the list).  Quick, easy, SIMPLE solution is to stop making and using these things NOW - not to demonize carbon to deviate from solving the real problems.

Instead we get politicos throwing hundreds of billions of tax and incentive driven dollars at total BS such as Li Ion battery powered vehicles.   In other words: fining more expensive, equally damaging and unsustainable ways of doing more of what is causing the problems in the first place.   All at the cost of destroying the existing economic infrastructure to do more virtue signaling instead of addressing and fixing the actual underlying problems.

Very good. Bravo.

[Nationalist]

On 10/30/2023 at 1:43 PM, Michael Hardner said:

4. I've been posting for 20+ years on here.  I will die posting on here...

Oh my. The quintessential keyboard warrior.

Mike...die smiling...not bloviating.