Leftist brethren, if you would've known "sunny ways" would've meant struggling to make your mortgage payment, or purchase groceries due to Trudeau's policy, would you have voted for him still?

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

oh... did you think i meant a physical fight?  Sorry, thought i was clear.  I certainly didn't mean to scare you like that.  Nobody would pick on you physically i'm sure. I may be a bit of a jerk but i'm no bully.

then why would you want to know my address ?

 

 

[Dougie93]

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I did. Just now.  I said you can't win a fight here - what chance would you have in person.  I mean at least here you have time to think before you reply (whether you do or you don't) and you still come across looking like a bit of an !diot.

Ex Flyer is a Chief Warrant Officer from NDHQ

if he thinks I am out of line, he can come and take it up with me at the Mess

Moss Park Armoury, 130 Queen Street East, Toronto, Ontario

otherwise he's just an anonymous avatar on the internet with no rank nor standing

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

then why would you want to know my address ?

you,... suggested.... meeting...  in.... the.... real.... world....

That was like 3 posts ago. You can't remember what you said 3 posts ago?

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

you,... suggested.... meeting...  in.... the.... real.... world....

That was like 3 posts ago. You can't remember what you said 3 posts ago?

I suggested that if anybody wants to stop being an internet avatar and go public, I welcome that

I never said I wanted to know where you live

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I suggested that if anybody wants to stop being an internet avatar and go public, I welcome that

I never said I wanted to know where you live

I never offered to tell you where i live.  Why are you even bringing that up?

Have you been drinking or something tonite?  Yeash - and you wonder why nobody wants to meet you

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I never offered to tell you where i live.  Why are you even bringing that up?

because you wanted to know where I live

if Ex Flyer thinks I am so out of line, he can come and take it up with me in the Mess

I know the RSM, so it can be in the Sergeant's & Warrant Officer's Mess if he prefers

I never suggested anybody post their address to the internet, only you suggested that

 

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

because you wanted to know where I live

 

Why would that have anything to do with you wanting to know where  -I-  live? You're making no sense

Quote

if Ex Flyer thinks I am so out of line, he can come and take it up with me in the Mess

Well you specifically said anyone previously

Sounds like you're challenging exflyer to a fight.  I wouldn't do that if i were you. Given your mental state and how easily you're confused my money would be on Exflyer.  No need for you to meet that god of yours any sooner than necessary right?  

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sure you do.  All you're doing there is abstaining - and abstaining still is a vote in our electoral and parliamentary system.  By choosing not to vote you are essentially giving all of them a vote, and saying I'll accept the decisions of others as being my own.

That's why abstaining is generally frowned upon.

Sorry kiddo - the gov't is still your responsibility.  It's just like if you see someone falling off a cliff and take no action amd let them fall you're just as guilty as if you pushed them.

There are plenty of good valid and at times necessary reasons for abstention in all sorts of democratic settings, even in Parliament itself.  Whatever reasons people and especially governments and political parties have for eschewing, not counting and or disparaging abstentions in general elections my own experience as a voting member of a commission or board for most of my adult life tells me there are very few good reasons for not recording abstentions and the reasons why. 

You tell me I support Trudeau because I abstained from voting which is pretty much the same as telling me I'm responsible for not giving my vote to some other asshat you may happen to support.    
 
From my perspective however, no matter who you vote for the government still gets in which is to say the same system and way of being governed that I and many other Canadians have come to loath and in good conscience cannot support. 

I wish my abstention could be better recorded as the message or signal to my fellow voters that I have in mind when I'm asked to cast it. That would make it harder to make up the politicized reasons for why people don't vote so the abstentions can still be exploited.

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There are plenty of good valid and at times necessary reasons for abstention in all sorts of democratic settings, even in Parliament itself.  Whatever reasons people and especially governments and political parties have for eschewing, not counting and or disparaging abstentions in general elections my own experience as a voting member of a commission or board for most of my adult life tells me there are very few good reasons for not recording abstentions and the reasons why. 

Sure - there are often good reasons to consider abstaining. And abstaining is not in and of itself wrong - it's a necessary component of the process.  But - it's still participating in the political process and you can't claim that the outcome has nothing to do with you if you choose abstention.

Quote

From my perspective however, no matter who you vote for the government still gets in which is to say the same system and way of being governed that I and many other Canadians have come to loath and in good conscience cannot support. 

But you do support it one way or another. And you don't appear to be actively working to encourage any changes to the system - and citizens doing that is what is required to bring about change in a democracy.

Quote

I wish my abstention could be better recorded as the message or signal to my fellow voters that I have in mind when I'm asked to cast it. That would make it harder to make up the politicized reasons for why people don't vote so the abstentions can still be exploited.

I agree - i think also that 'abstain' should be a legitimate actual choice on each ballot and that they should  be counted. I think it DOES send a message if they tally up the votes and there's a percentage who took the time and energy to show up to vote and said "you all suck" in essence,  But i think that if you're unhappy with the system then you have to actively lobby for change or the like.  Abstaining is still participation in the system.  Your not voting still helps choose the gov't.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Justin Trudeau was adored by the younger crowd and women . . .  now, eight years later, that younger crowd has come to realize that very many of them will never have a piece of the pie . . . never have a home, never get the good jobs, not afford to raise a family, pay larger and larger taxes. Boy, that's some bright future!  "Sunny ways my friend" has turned into a quagmire for them.  Maybe that's why those once young voters are looking around for a better deal . . .

Justin Trudeau's time has come, the damage to our country has been done . . . 

Well it will be good to see him gone and let's hope forever, but that doesn't mean we will be better off. For who will this progressive young generation go with if not JT? Probably not the 'conservative' guy. No.

That leaves you know who... yep. The Jagged Meat-headed Singer.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But you do support it one way or another. And you don't appear to be actively working to encourage any changes to the system - and citizens doing that is what is required to bring about change in a democracy.

I can support the purpose of being governed without supporting the method by which it happens.

I spent the better part of 10 years working to change how our fisheries were managed. We were squashed like bugs. Lol!

That's on top of 35 years as an APC volunteer at the regional district level. Democracy needs to be maintained too.

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I can support the purpose of being governed without supporting the method by which it happens.

well you're participating in the method either way so you can't dismiss it either.  At the end of the day it's the system you've got to work with.

Quote

I spent the better part of 10 years working to change how our fisheries were managed. We were squashed like bugs. Lol!

Heh   well sometimes it can go that way

But generally speaking and without knowing the specifics that usually boils down to 'not enough people agreed with you' in essence.  And - if that's the case in a democracy we have to respect that as well. We can argue, convince, cajole, debate, educate and plead but once we've had our say then we do have to accept the greater will of the people.  Unfortunately at the end of the day democracy is two wolves and a sheep discussing what's for dinner, and while we have SOME protections against the tyrrany of the majority we must accept when occasionally it works against us.

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Well it will be good to see him gone and let's hope forever, but that doesn't mean we will be better off. For who will this progressive young generation go with if not JT? Probably not the 'conservative' guy. No.

That leaves you know who... yep. The Jagged Meat-headed Singer.

Actually the poling suggests 'the conservative guy' is who a lot of them are going for - including some of jagger's supporters.

The young people today have been locked out. They won't own a home, may not be able to afford to rent, face severely reduced quality of life increases compared to other countries as our competitiveness is set to under perform for 4 decades. They see a divided canada - they can't get a passport properly, they can't cross the border properly,  they see the debt going up and realize public services are threatened.  They have no medical and where's that dental that was supposed to be coming?

And they realize we've been doing it the 'leftist' way for 7 years now. And it just gets worse. So - now they're going the other way. And i suspect PP will get two terms to fix things. Few prime ministers last beyond that but you never know.

[OftenWrong]

34 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Actually the poling suggests 'the conservative guy' is who a lot of them are going for - including some of jagger's supporters.

The young people today have been locked out. They won't own a home, may not be able to afford to rent, face severely reduced quality of life increases compared to other countries as our competitiveness is set to under perform for 4 decades. They see a divided canada - they can't get a passport properly, they can't cross the border properly,  they see the debt going up and realize public services are threatened.  They have no medical and where's that dental that was supposed to be coming?

And they realize we've been doing it the 'leftist' way for 7 years now. And it just gets worse. So - now they're going the other way. And i suspect PP will get two terms to fix things. Few prime ministers last beyond that but you never know.

Are you also by chance a Toronto Maple Leafs fan?

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Are you also by chance a Toronto Maple Leafs fan?

Now now.  There's no call for that kind of language.

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

if anybody ever wants to come off the internet and take it up with me face to face

I welcome the opportunity

You just prove my point

"What blather.

You are a phony...as a christian and as a soldier.

Stop before you dig your hole any deeper."

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You just prove my point

"What blather.

You are a phony...as a christian and as a soldier.

Stop before you dig your hole any deeper."

you're simply an anonymous internet troll who goes around the forum ranting & raving at me

all my closest friends are infantry veterans

two of them served with 2 Commando on Op Deliverance

so I listen to what they had to say about it

if you don't believe it, you can come down to the Mess and talk to them yourself

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

you're simply an anonymous internet troll who goes around the forum ranting & raving at me

all my closest friends are infantry veterans

two of them served with 2 Commando on Op Deliverance

so I listen to what they had to say about it

if you don't believe it, you can come down to the Mess and talk to them yourself

Nope, not at all. I am a person that has seen through your BS.

You're just a person that is too full of themselves and keeps on and on and on about themselves. A true display of narcissism.

I have no interest in  associating with you. I do not associate with losers.

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Nope, not at all. I am a person that has seen through your BS.

You're just a person that is too full of themselves and keeps on and on and on about themselves. A true display of narcissism.

I have no interest in  associating with you. I do not associate with losers.

you've already said that dozens of times, there's no reason to keep repeating yourself

it doesn't change my view of what happened on Op Delivernce

which was that it was a systemic breakdown of discipline, which was incited from the very top

and there was nothing the Junior Ranks could do about it, short of staging a mutiny in the field on operations

which wasn't realistically going to happen

[Dougie93]

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Well it will be good to see him gone and let's hope forever, but that doesn't mean we will be better off.

indeed

because Trudeau is simply pandering to a ruling class

and they control every institution, even the courts

so they are not going away simply because the Liberals are defeated in an election

[ExFlyer]

37 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

you've already said that dozens of times, there's no reason to keep repeating yourself

it doesn't change my view of what happened on Op Delivernce

which was that it was a systemic breakdown of discipline, which was incited from the very top

and there was nothing the Junior Ranks could do about it, short of staging a mutiny in the field on operations

which wasn't realistically going to happen

Your view is worth nothing. You were not there so you are going on ... I don't even know what.

The report said those two were renegades, not heros.

If the people in your mess knew what kind of phony fool you truly are, they would not let you in.

You accuse others of being anonymous internet trolls and I guess that being one, you would know LOL

You want to meet face to face with a fool, look in a mirror.

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Your view is worth nothing. You were not there so you are going on ... I don't even know what.

The report said those two were renegades, not heros.

If the people in your mess knew what kind of phony fool you truly are, they would not let you in.

You accuse others of being anonymous internet trolls and I guess that being one, you would know LOL

You want to meet face to face with a fool, look in a mirror.

I never said anyone was a hero

but the Somalia Inquiry Report clearly states that there was a systemic breakdown of discipline

everybody knew what was going on in the camp

yet none with the authority to do so did anything to put a stop to it

[ExFlyer]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I never said anyone was a hero

but the Somalia Inquiry Report clearly states that there was a systemic breakdown of discipline

everybody knew what was going on in the camp

yet none with the authority to do so did anything to put a stop to it

Get over it and yourself dude. As I said " Your view is worth nothing"

"Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later taken to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner^{. "}

Taken as implicit permission, no orders given and no permission give, only assumption by a couple soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair

You, for dozens of posts ,defended and made excuses and still do. Blaming others for their actions. And, you are still doing it....how christian of you LOL

Time for me to go away from you now. I truly hope you will do the same.

Edited August 26, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Get over it and yourself dude. As I said " Your view is worth nothing"

"Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later taken to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner^{. "}

Taken as implicit permission, no orders given and no permission give, only assumption by a couple soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_affair

You, for dozens of posts ,defended and made excuses and still do. Blaming others for their actions. And, you are still doing it....how christian of you LOL

an order had come down from the Commissioned Officers,

whom are legally in command and responsible for their subordinates actions

to "rough the prisoners up"

what does that mean ?

a Warrant Officer then comes in, hangs from the rafters and starts kicking the prisoner in the head

that alone could kill somebody, so the demonstrated action was no holds barred

that's leading from the front, so of course the Corporals would follow the Warrant Officers there

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

all my closest friends are infantry veterans

two of them served with 2 Commando on Op Deliverance

so I listen to what they had to say about it

Ah.  So you're a "vetran" by proxy.    Your knowledge and 'service' come second hand.

Actually explains a lot.