External review found military's COVID-19 vaccine policy violated Charter of Rights

[CdnFox]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-covid-19-vaccine-policy-charter-1.6924862

A tribunal that is part of the military grievance process has found that the Canadian Armed Forces' COVID-19 vaccine policy violated its members' Charter rights.

The Military Grievances External Review Committee reviews grievances that are referred to it by the chief of defence staff, and provides the chief with non-binding findings and recommendations.

 

Pretty pathetic.

In completely unrelated news:

Military sounds alarm over recruiting problems as Canadians steer clear

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/military-sounds-alarm-over-recruiting-problems-as-canadians-steer-clear-1.6083496

 

When you throw your own people under the bus and destroy their careers  -  what the hell do you expect? People are going to line up and join an org where not only will they stab you in the back but make you pay for the knife?

[Queenmandy85]

I guess I’m naive. I was always under the impression that members of the military were supposed to follow orders and do what they were told. If a soldier is allowed to refuse to obey orders over something as trivial as being vaccinated against a disease, what good are they when they are ordered to face actual danger in combat.

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I guess I’m naive. I was always under the impression that members of the military were supposed to follow orders and do what they were told. If a soldier is allowed to refuse to obey orders over something as trivial as being vaccinated against a disease, what good are they when they are ordered to face actual danger in combat.

You are VERY naive if you think soldiers are supposed to blindly follow orders.  Ask germany about that.

I mean seriously - think about it. If we took what you just said at face value Then "Kill this baby" is a perfectly valid thing for them to order.

Not to mention - "lay down and get raped".    I mean - it's an order right?  gotta follow it.

It has long since been recognized that soldiers are NOT expected to follow ANY order - and an order is not lawful if it violates the soldier's rights.     You can't just medically experiment on soldiers and expect them to accept that for example.

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You are VERY naive if you think soldiers are supposed to blindly follow orders.  Ask germany about that.

I mean seriously - think about it. If we took what you just said at face value Then "Kill this baby" is a perfectly valid thing for them to order.

Not to mention - "lay down and get raped".    I mean - it's an order right?  gotta follow it.

It has long since been recognized that soldiers are NOT expected to follow ANY order - and an order is not lawful if it violates the soldier's rights.     You can't just medically experiment on soldiers and expect them to accept that for example.

Good point. I figured lawful orders were a given. I just never imagined a simple inoculation was an unlawful order. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I guess I’m naive. I was always under the impression that members of the military were supposed to follow orders and do what they were told. If a soldier is allowed to refuse to obey orders over something as trivial as being vaccinated against a disease, what good are they when they are ordered to face actual danger in combat.

Why are you under the impression mandated vaccination had anything to do with a shortfall in recruitment? The article cited as evidence of this says nothing at all about COVID vaccine.

What it does say is that the military is feeling the effects of labour shortage like everyone else.

[ExFlyer]

Understand that this a statement is from a tribunal which has no legal standing.

To declare it is against the charter of rights is an tribunal opinion and not legally binding. If it were against the charter, it would apply to all Canadians, not just military.

The order to get vaccinated was to ensure that military personnel could be deployed in Canadian actions without the chance of infecting any of the Canadians it was supporting. The Military was called in to many long term care facilities and they needed to be vaccinated or they could not help.

It is not a matter of blindly following orders, they were given a choice, like all civilians in this country. 407 members (out of more than 70,000) made the choice of not getting vaccinated and they resulted in either release or reduction in duties , qualifications training etc.

It now sits in the hands of the Chief of Defence Staff an it will be interesting decision he will make. Make military decisions priority or succumb to the PR department.

The second link is interesting as well. Why can the Military not recruit.

As they said, their primary goal is diversity and that they have more recruits in some trades and none in others. They also "test" a potential recruit and determining what occupations they fit in? For sure it will be in those occupations that are  short staffed as opposed to the ones the recruit would like. Oh, did I mention diversity??

They say of the 100,000 military and we all know that is an incorrect number. 80,000 at best, regular and reserve.

The Military is so politically driven now , no one has interest anymore. It used to be an honourable profession and has become an arm of the political party in power, regardless of military needs. It does not need more women, more indigenous, more ethnically diverse, more sexually confused, it needs persons that want to serve as Canadian Armed Forces. It is not accepting the willing because they do not fit the formula hence, they are low in recruits.

Edited August 5, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You are VERY naive if you think soldiers are supposed to blindly follow orders. 

indeed

all Canadian soldiers are bound by solemn oath to the Commander-in-Chief, HM The King

to respectfully decline to obey any order which violates national or international law or the laws of armed conflict

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Good point. I figured lawful orders were a given. I just never imagined a simple inoculation was an unlawful order. 

Well turns out this one was. 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I guess I’m naive. I was always under the impression that members of the military were supposed to follow orders and do what they were told. If a soldier is allowed to refuse to obey orders over something as trivial as being vaccinated against a disease, what good are they when they are ordered to face actual danger in combat.

Well over 98 % of them did follow orders, but there are other factors in play here, the order came from the PM, to the CDS thats not how orders work...PM can not give the military any orders directly...making the order illegal to start with one of their points of contentions. 

Military has gone through all of this with medications before, with mefloquine an anti malaria pill where it forced everyone to take an experimental drug with some very bad results...

This vaccine has had negative results which you could debate all day, but the fact remains that some soldiers suffered ill results from it, and those that were effected were simply given a kiss good bye and released... those effects very, from heart problems to comas... Physically fit soldiers now unable to walk short distances where shown to the street, with little support... 

Other issues where those that did refused regardless of any of the accepted excuses used in civilian street where deemed unfit for military duty and released...and after mandates no longer were required where refused entry back in, unlike their civilians counter parts...black listed for the lack of a better term... even with the current manning crises...  

They are also fighting it on a constitutional grounds, not sure how or why this may work i don't know... there are several pod casts dealing with this right now, i was not really paying to much attention to it...

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I guess I’m naive. I was always under the impression that members of the military were supposed to follow orders and do what they were told. If a soldier is allowed to refuse to obey orders over something as trivial as being vaccinated against a disease, what good are they when they are ordered to face actual danger in combat.

the Airborne Regiment followed orders to take Mefloquine in Somalia

even though it was not certified for use on humans

because it had caused psychosis in testing

then Canada's most elite unit descended into madness

the officers issuing unlawful orders

the troops obeying them

resulting in a catastrophe from which the Canadian military has never recovered

Ex Coelis

Edited August 5, 2023 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Good point. I figured lawful orders were a given. I just never imagined a simple inoculation was an unlawful order. 

 the military directed that no homosexuals could serve in the military back in the day

 they investigated people for being homosexuals and drove them out of the military

and I'm talking about the 1980's

so it's not just about unlawful orders

the military institutes unconstitutional administrative employment directives as well

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

When you throw your own people under the bus and destroy their careers  -  what the hell do you expect?

Joint Task Force 2 Sniper Dallas Alexander

world record sniper shot holder in Mosul, Iraq ( 3540 m )

driven out for refusing to take the vaccine