Is Pushing Body Positivity a Form of Abuse?

[Perspektiv]

We are in an era, where obesity is no longer something that should be mocked. 

Fat shaming, and similar terms were coined as a means of singling out those who judge others based on their weight.

Champions of body positivity like singer Lizzo strongly believe in the love of your curves, regardless of their size.

Some experts feel this removes accountability, which encourages unhealthy lifestyles.

Is that above assumption the epitome of prejudice?

Is pushing body positivity a form of abuse?

[impartialobserver]

You could construe it that way. However, if you are obese and trying to not be obese.. being told that you are fat, worthless, etc. does little to help you. We would all like to think that what family,friends, or strangers say about our body does not impact us.. but with most people it does. 

I would like to think that we could just leave our fellow humans alone and let them sink or swim based on their own decisions. I am sure that the OP is perfect and has no vices/bad habits. As for the rest of us, not sure I want a stranger chiming in on my decisions. 

I have a daughter and my way of discussing this topic is this. Being obese does not make you ugly. It will simply lead to a more difficult life. Less energy, greater chance of joint pain, and eventually circulatory system issues. Telling my six year old daughter that if she is ever obese.. she is then ugly is not my way of going about things. 

[Michael Hardner]

The funny thing about this issue is it doesn't get much traction in N. America .... because 2/3 of us are fat and don't want to hear about it.

There is, sometimes, a suggestion that anti-fat-shaming is more of the 'woke' culture but... you will also find right-of-centre people pausing over their fried chicken sandwiches ... and saying nothing.

If we should be shaming people, it should be about insensitivity, selfishness, self-centredness and such...  We used to get lectured from the pulpit on such things.  I wish we still did, sometimes.

[herbie]

Yet another case of those anti-woke people who just can't MYOB manage to turn everything ass-backwards so that suggesting to people they shouldn't ashamed of being fat, coloured or queer is "abuse" or "discrimination" against people who aren't.

MYOFB if you don't like it shuddup!

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

being told that you are fat, worthless

I don't think experts point to it being worthless to be fat, rather than it being unhealthy at extreme levels. How is this shaming?

3 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

I am sure that the OP is perfect and has no vices/bad habits.

I have tons. Thats the thing, though. Am accountable for each and every one of them. I don't act like I don't have any bad habits.

Pretending obesity is perfectly healthy, is dangerous. 

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

shouldn't ashamed of being fat

You shouldn't be ashamed. But you also should not pretend it's perfectly healthy, and promote it as such.

Be fat all you wish.

I don't understand how a woman like Lizzo can get upset, at people roasting her posing in a string bikini, trying to tell us this is what sexy looks like. 

There is nothing sexy about it. Her confidence, sure. 

I had to flip the channel. It was nasty. The backlash confirmed I wasn't alone.

Having accountability prevents me of doing something like looking like a homeless person during a job interview. Showering, daily.

Failure of doing so, and being angry at and blaming the employer for discrimination, is silly at best.

[Perspektiv]

Body positivity also is hollow while good intentioned. 

When I put on weight during the covid lockdowns, I knew I had let myself go. 

I was depressed like many Canadians, and turned to food, which calmed my stress over the uncertainty of if I would have a roof over my head.

Many, turned to alcohol.  Drugs, and so on.

But again there should always be accountability.

Only point being made here.

I knew, I let myself go.

Someone telling me I looked great the way I was, was disingenuous. 

I felt like s**t.

This fat acceptance branch of this movement, essentially does just that. 

Removes how good one feels, in knowing their self esteem is shot, and actively doing something about it.

I chose to better monitor the foods I ate, and get back into fitness. I felt great, and energized.

I think the movement becomes dangerous when someone like this, could look at you and genuinely feel she is anorexic because of what she is being fed, in terms of lies:

Beautiful nonetheless, but suffering from anorexia? 

[Michael Hardner]

I'm also confused as to why the OP is now in favour of moralizing again, when they have mocked the woke set for doing this.

People who are very sure that they know themselves, don't.

[impartialobserver]

14 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't think experts point to it being worthless to be fat, rather than it being unhealthy at extreme levels. How is this shaming?

I have tons. Thats the thing, though. Am accountable for each and every one of them. I don't act like I don't have any bad habits.

Pretending obesity is perfectly healthy, is dangerous. 

Perfectly healthy.. I do not hear anyone saying that. Not shaming you for being less than perfect but still having the opportunity to change that.. is what I hear. Condemning someone for being less than perfect in a very obvious way is hypocritical. It probably just so happens that your imperfections are not up front and center. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by impartialobserver

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Perfectly healthy

Doesn't exist. Health is a lifestyle, meaning its ongoing and can always be improved upon.

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Not shaming you for being less than perfect

Nobody is perfect. However, am fully accountable for my many imperfections. Making excuses for poor health and sloth, aren't helping anyone.

I have a short attention span, to name one. I know this. This is not an excuse.

I walk around at work at times with a "journal". I take notes when needed. Make plans. Check off my completed tasks and adjust as I need to. Sticky notes.

What you're saying, is I should use my short attention span and play the victim card, and decry anyone not catering to it, as discriminatory.

If am tardy. I can't set a clock. I am time blind, so employers would have to give me grace of 15 minutes.

I just don't understand in what world that this is good.

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

Condemning

I don't think anyone is being condemned if morbidly obese. 

If you can't fit on an aircraft seat, sorry, but this isn't "less than perfect". 

If you look like a pork roast in a lace dress, this isn't less than perfect:

If you think you're sexy in the above, good on you. Claiming prejudice, would be silly.

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

your imperfections are not up front and center. 

Or I don't make excuses for them, under guise of acceptance.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm also confused as to why the OP is now in favour of moralizing again, 

I don't see it as a 'moral' issue but it certainly is a health one. Young people are confused enough about things these days. The message needs to be clear that sedentary life and obesity leads to an early death. and I don't see that as moralizing.

20 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If we should be shaming people, it should be about insensitivity, selfishness, self-centredness and such...  We used to get lectured from the pulpit on such things.  I wish we still did, sometimes.

Do your feet touch the ground when you walk? Just wondering...    

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. I don't see it as a 'moral' issue but it certainly is a health one. Young people are confused enough about things these days. The message needs to be clear that sedentary life and obesity leads to an early death. and I don't see that as moralizing.

2. Do your feet touch the ground when you walk? Just wondering...    

1. Well, it's someone telling someone how to live their life.  There are a lot of ways to rationalize such an action, in the abstract, whether it's a health, community or environmental issue.  But they're all a kind of moralizing, right ?
2. I am not the one who is telling people how to live and then telling people effectively to 'get lost' when I'm told what to do.  I actually change my actions to make for a better community, family or self when I am challenged.  Others don't.  

In my experience if you simply tell people that you live a moral life they sometimes get p1ssed off and call you holier than thou.  I don't do that, but I am confused when people pontificate and then brag about not doing anything for the environment like some here.

[OftenWrong]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I actually change my actions to make for a better community, family or self when I am challenged.  Others don't.  

Ah I see and it bothers you that there are such people who do not seek to declare themselves the "improvers of mankind" in the same way you want them to. Now I get it.

So the answer to 2. is "No".

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Ah I see and it bothers you that there are such people who do not seek to declare themselves the "improvers of mankind" in the same way you want them to. Now I get it.

2. So the answer to 2. is "No".

1. Not really.  It's more like... some people declare themselves better than me and yet they also litter.  Something like that.
2. Unless you were speaking figuratively the answer would be obvious.  

If you want to know, I am personally sick of babies who continually ask for things and demand that the world change to meet their worldview.  Most of these people seem to be Baby Boomers, and I can understand it on that basis I guess.

(I am also a baby boomer)

[Perspektiv]

39 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I don't see it as a 'moral' issue but it certainly is a health one.

Exactly. Trying to gaslight others in that it isn't a health issue, and being 500lbs is perfectly healthy, is insane.

If you're 500lbs and are healthy, you're the exception to the rule. Not the standard.

Just like if you look like Michael Phelps in physique, but have high cholesterol, diabetes and live a sedentary lifestyle.

Nobody, will say, "wow, good on you!". They will be bewildered at how someone like this could be fit.

[Perspektiv]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, it's someone telling someone how to live their life. 

So, someone imposing pronouns on others or to buy an EV to save the planet is fair game, but wanting people who are 500lbs demanding wider aircraft seats vs seeing maybe they are the problem to see it, is abhorrent. 

Ok.

[impartialobserver]

51 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

What you're saying, is I should use my short attention span and play the victim card, and decry anyone not catering to it, as discriminatory.

Here is the difference.. I would have to know you personally in order to see this "short attention span". Second, most would not deem this as a negative but rather a quirk.

Someone who is 190 lbs when they should be 150... all you have to do is look at them once. I know that you know everyone's life story (even if you have never met them) but you have no actual info on how/why they are not 150 lbs. I know that in your alternate dimension, this differs but in my real world most view obseity as a health problem and a fixable health problem. A health problem much like a cavity or a urinary tract infection that does not tell you all about a person. 

 

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, Contrarian said:

why would I want to celebrate being an alcoholic or being overweight? 

The far left is glorifying the latter.

I mean, it is becoming the beauty standard. 

If you are obese, have a beard, you can pose for Calvin Klein in a bikini.

This somehow, is progress. O_o

[impartialobserver]

4 hours ago, Contrarian said:

What I am advocating for is a sort of understanding that these are issues that can be controlled for the better. So sure, we have to be understanding of one's struggles but in the same time I don't agree with celebrating. 

Apparently not condemning one over their struggles is exactly the same as celebrating these struggles. 

[Perspektiv]

2 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I would have to know you personally in order to see this

Am black. It would be like me sitting on my ass whining about I can't get a job, because employers are racist. Feeling that you asking "how many resumes did you send?" Would be just as racist.

You know  vs, getting off my lazy ass, and getting as many resumes in as many hands as possible. 

4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Second, most would not deem this as a negative but rather a quirk.

Good luck managing if you can't keep your shit together. 

Its a flaw, but something that can be worked around. 

Same if you suck at keeping time. There are alarms you can set. Etc.

Vs forcing your employer to adapt to you.

5 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

I know that you know everyone's life story

I never claimed that I did.

I just know that if I didn't shower for a month and tried to approach women, I would struggle to do so. This isn't discrimination. I need to wash my ass.

Body odor isn't a form of musk you can bottle.

Consequences to behavior. Nothing wrong with that.

Now if you prefer your smell, then do you. But to feel anyone saying anything is being prejudice, is ridiculous.

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

most view obseity as a health problem

Obesity creates health problems. Most who live healthy lifestyles or lost weight, see obesity as a choice.

Watching Netflix and downing an entire quart of ice cream isn't a health problem. Its a choice.

Refusing to walk, and driving to McDonald's drive through down your road to buy three big Mac meals, is a choice.

These come with consequences. If you can't accept the consequences, calling someone who points to the health hazards with medical facts fat shamers, is one refusing to have any accountability for their actions.

Fine individually, problematic if sold to the masses as healthy.

[impartialobserver]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Am black. It would be like me sitting on my ass whining about I can't get a job, because employers are racist. Feeling that you asking "how many resumes did you send?" Would be just as racist.

You know  vs, getting off my lazy ass, and getting as many resumes in as many hands as possible. 

Irrelevant. Your short attention span is not something that is visible to a stranger upon the first look. A person would have to interact with you and do so repeatedly in order to see it. No matter how you spin it...it is cold, hard, truth.

Most would try to empathize with you about your short attention span. "My brain goes a mile a minute, I can never focus on anything either. I jump from this to that and then from that to this".. I hear it all of the time. However, being obese just gets you an awkward look and an "i bet its hard". 

Well, we must live in different realities. I do not see anyone celebrating it. They tolerate or accept it but do not celebrate it. Treating a person with respect when they are 200 lbs. apparently is not in your repertoire. 

 

 

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Irrelevant. Your short attention span is not something that is visible to a stranger upon the first look

Fair enough. My skin color is very relevant, however.

I knew a relative on my dad's side. Lazy. Welfare bum. Refused to look for a job. 7 kids. 

Blamed white people for this.

Somehow, they Krazy glued his ass to his sofa, and hand to his remote control.

This isn't a racial issue, just like morbid obesity isn't a health issue. It's a laziness issue for most. 

Obesity will have you judged, rightfully so in most cases.

I see someone 600lbs, I assume they shovel food down their throats all day, and don't do much exercise other than to find food to shovel down their throats.

I assume they would be lazy.

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Most would try to empathize with you about your short attention span.

You clearly have never managed or owned a business. If you can't get your shit together, your staff and clients will not respect you.

Telling them you have a short attention span, vs getting shit done, won't gain you sympathy points.

Also I prefer your business. Not your pity. One pays my bills. 

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Well, we must live in different realities. I do not see anyone celebrating it.

That's because of the social push back. The ridicule. Proves most haven't lost their minds.

[impartialobserver]

7 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Fair enough. My skin color is very relevant, however.

I knew a relative on my dad's side. Lazy. Welfare bum. Refused to look for a job. 7 kids. 

Blamed white people for this.

Somehow, they Krazy glued his ass to his sofa, and hand to his remote control.

This isn't a racial issue, just like morbid obesity isn't a health issue. It's a laziness issue for most. 

Obesity will have you judged, rightfully so in most cases.

I see someone 600lbs, I assume they shovel food down their throats all day, and don't do much exercise other than to find food to shovel down their throats.

I assume they would be lazy.

Interesting how you only bring out the most extreme examples. If you saw someone who was 5'11" and 200 lbs... would you draw conclusions about them upon first look? Do you view this condition as something that they can fix/resolve or are stupid, lazy, worthless, no impulse control, etc and once broken.. can't be fixed. 

[Perspektiv]

5 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Interesting how you only bring out the most extreme examples.

Its the most extreme who are pushing the most outlandish garbage.

I wouldn't have posted the thread, if there weren't people going on national TV, decrying the fact they get shamed in their bearded and hairy bodies, as they go to the beach in string bikinis.

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

would you draw conclusions about them upon first look?

They wouldn't stand out. Now, if they were 425lbs, the stares would be involuntary.

8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Do you view this condition

I don't see it as a condition. To me, you're telling me the above would "suffer" from having "big bones". 

They are obese.

The word isn't insulting. Its factual.

10 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

can't be fixed

I assume they are lazy. Not that they can't find the willpower to change their ways. 

I dated a woman who used to be 70lbs overweight, and lost all of the weight and then some. She got fed up by the judgment, and did something about it. It was hard.

Odds are, the assessment would be accurate, in someone assuming until that epiphany hits, that they would otherwise be lazy and make excuses for their sloth and gluttony. 

[impartialobserver]

9 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Its the most extreme who are pushing the most outlandish garbage.

I wouldn't have posted the thread, if there weren't people going on national TV, decrying the fact they get shamed in their bearded and hairy bodies, as they go to the beach in string bikinis.

By your logic, I should make generalizations based on the most extreme of examples. For example.. white women will kill their kids because Lori Vallow did. 

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/31/1191058640/vallow-lori-daybell-sentence-murder-doomsday