'People are more desperate': B.C. shoplifting numbers rise along with inflation - also huge spike in abusive behaviour

[myata]

The system of public government in the country is stagnating and heading into a dead end. We cannot accomplish anything anymore, create new, fix real and actual problems except spending huge billions on trivial tasks, and next year, with automatic inflation increase. But progress doesn't happen automatically! No the bureaucracy we developed over the centuries doesn't get it and cannot. It is self-sufficient, see? It exists, sits and gets salaries and benefits with regular paid coffee breaks and accumulated sick days, so we, the country, are.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So, by your logic, we should cut off the supply then, not give it away?

No.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, make it more costly, price it out of existence.

Good luck with that.

[ExFlyer]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No.

Good luck with that.

Good luck with what?? Giving it away. free is not the answer to drug addiction. It has not stopped the overdose deaths..

[CdnFox]

13 hours ago, eyeball said:

1. Because it's the only place and 2. It's not the drugs people want. Even if it's fentanyl it should come in doses that are safe and produced in a regulated way. Not illicitly in other words.

What utter nonsense.  The fact they take the 'safe' drugs and sell them to buy harder drugs would not change just because the exact same thing is happening elsewhere. The size of the project makes zero difference. In a major metro with lots and lots of users they're doing this and it's failing.

As for the drugs they want - they want the dangerous drugs. Period. You can't make "safe" dangerous drugs.  The dangerous drugs give you a stronger high.  Even if you gave lower 'safe' doses of fentynal they would just consume more of it than they should chasing that high. And they would by the stronger stuff off the streets just like they do now. There is a REASON drug dealers put that extra garbage in - it's not to kill their clients, its that it gives  a better high and the junkies will ALWAYS chase that.

Know how i know? Because that is EXACTLY what's happening now.  And it will always be what happens.

 

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I'm pretty certain most people would prefer to use drugs they're more certain won't kill them. Wouldn't you rather that too?

I think i see the problem here.  You believe that drug addicts will make good and rational decisions. Yeah.... no.

If THAT were the case the problem would be easy to solve - NO - i would NOT want drugs less likely to kill me. I would want treatment to get off of drugs ENTIRELY and help rebuilding my life.  That's what an intelligent person would want.  It's like saying "i know you have a knife stuck in your gut - wouldn't you prefer a smaller knife?"  - NO - i'd want NO knife.

So all we'd have to do is provide voluntary treatment and problem solved.

 

THey are willing to die for their high right now - and that will not change. If you give them something safer - they won't want it. THey want the bad stuff. And they will ALWAYS choose that.  And that's exactly what they're doing now.   The drugs they want are dangerous and that's just the way it is. Your method doesn't work

[Zeitgeist]

It comes down to irresponsible government.  Assuming that people aren’t going to gravitate to free drugs in an environment where there are no legal restrictions, and that somehow these drug-addled, addicted minds are going to discern the clean from toxic drugs and climb out of addiction, is reckless beyond belief. Eyeball and Hardner have gotten their way and the results are catastrophic.

 I remember the arguments for clean injection sites, which I supported on the basis of public health, especially after the AIDS epidemic.  Those sites became popular and expanded.  Fine, take the bad with the good.

Now with police essentially abandoning hard drug use and the state subsidizing hard drug supply to addicts, we’re witnessing the state as pusher and the total abandonment of vulnerable youth and adults.  What more evidence do you need than the stat that death by overdose is the leading cause of youth deaths in BC?

Edited August 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

No, you are wrong. Treating the problem by giving drugs is not working is it?

Not when it's such a half hearted effort that's still drenched in morality that insists on treating drug use as a criminal issue.

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

They get the free stuff, sell it to pushers who then cut it with junk and then they buy it back.

This makes no sense. Users selling drugs to pushers. Okay, notice by your logic and methods it's impossible to ever do anything about the producers and pushers? You'd be better off throwing all the users in prison. Because one way or another users always have been and always will be the root of all the problems.

Responding to it the old fashioned way is futile.

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

It has not stopped the overdose deaths.

Maybe you have to start asking why so many people are so interested in taking the sort of drugs people overdose on so easily.

A lack of conservative family values? ?

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Maybe you have to start asking why so many people are so interested in taking the sort of drugs people overdose on so easily.

A lack of conservative family values? ?

Yes.  Lack of responsibility, which very much relates to upbringing.  You have no concept of the importance of mentoring, parenting, or guidance to make such a snide, cynical remark.  How do you think people learn how to act in life?

A rehab jail for a term necessary for rehabilitation is better than death.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Maybe you have to start asking why so many people are so interested in taking the sort of drugs people overdose on so easily.

A lack of conservative family values? ? 

That actually is a factor.  People from stable, loving family homes who are brought up with a strong set of values and a strong sense of personal worth and a feeling of belonging to their communities are FAR less likely to wind up as drug addicts.

You say it as  a joke - as if somehow having a sense of pride and purpose and self worth and belonging and support is somehow a BAD thing.  It isn't.  Sorry.

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That actually is a factor.  People from stable, loving family homes who are brought up with a strong set of values and a strong sense of personal worth and a feeling of belonging to their communities are FAR less likely to wind up as drug addicts.

You say it as  a joke - as if somehow having a sense of pride and purpose and self worth and belonging and support is somehow a BAD thing.  It isn't.  Sorry.

That’s likely the root cause of most of our social problems.  It’s incredible that some people think otherwise.  This is basic Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.  A person who is neglected or raised badly is at much greater risk on a whole set of metrics.  This used to be obvious.

 

[eyeball]

51 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You can't make "safe" dangerous drugs.

Go tell it to Keith Richards.

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You have no concept of the importance of mentoring, parenting, or guidance to make such a snide, cynical remark.

I'm a lefty with a strong community ethic, I'm volunteer commissionaire and past firefighter with kids and grandkids and everyone is thriving.

You don't know squat about me.

[eyeball]

37 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You say it as  a joke - as if somehow having a sense of pride and purpose and self worth and belonging and support is somehow a BAD thing.  It isn't.  Sorry.

I think this caricature you have of me in your head is just your own reflection.  

[ExFlyer]

58 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Maybe you have to start asking why so many people are so interested in taking the sort of drugs people overdose on so easily.

A lack of conservative family values? ?

Why do I care? It is suicide in a different way. Ya wanna do yourself in, go for it.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Why do I care?

That's a very good question.  You don't seem very committed to anything, is that a value or something?

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm a lefty with a strong community ethic, I'm volunteer commissionaire and past firefighter with kids and grandkids and everyone is thriving.

You don't know squat about me.

If you have a strong community ethic and you are a good father, then you should know the importance of being a good influence and shouldn’t be spewing nonsense.  I simply don’t believe you because your views don’t support what you claim about yourself. 

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If you have a strong community ethic and you are a good father, then you should know the importance of being a good influence and shouldn’t be spewing nonsense.  I simply don’t believe you because your views don’t support what you claim about yourself. 

I know how damaging it can be when trying the same thing over and over again doesn't work.

[ExFlyer]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's a very good question.  You don't seem very committed to anything, is that a value or something?

Nope, I am committed to those things that interest and affect me.

My values are mine and I certainly have no obligation to share them with you

As I said "It is suicide in a different way. Ya wanna do yourself in, go for it. "

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s likely the root cause of most of our social problems.  It’s incredible that some people think otherwise.  This is basic Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.  A person who is neglected or raised badly is at much greater risk on a whole set of metrics.  This used to be obvious.

 

Agreed. The problem today is that there's little sense of 'belonging' and little sense of 'personal' achievement.

A kid raised in a traditional "conservative" home (and honestly most liberals used to raise their kids like this too at one time)  is taught they're part of a bigger community, and they have a duty to that community. And that they're part of a country and that it's a GREAT country to be proud of and its up to them to live their lives in a way that honors that.

They're also taught that they don't just 'Get' respect, they earn it by achievements, good deeds and giving respect where it's earned.  And they are praised for their achievements and for their good choices.

Those are 'anchors' which ground a person and give strength against bad decisions and despair.

Kids today are taught that they have NO duty to anyone else and should do whatever they want. That the country is crap and they should be ashamed of it.  And they should be ashamed of their skin colour - either as victims or oppressors depending on the colour. And that everybody should be praised for participating even if they did nothing.

They have no grounding and easily fall into bad behavior.  And the left's solution is to encourage that bad behavior and reward it with free drugs.  It's no wonder we have issues.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Go tell it to Keith Richards.

I mentioned it to the 200 plus addicts who die every month in Vancouver - is that enough?

[eyeball]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Kids today are taught that they have NO duty to anyone else and should do whatever they want.

Meh...conservatives and right wingers were telling themselves the same things back in the 60's.

Time to grow up.

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I mentioned it to the 200 plus addicts who die every month in Vancouver - is that enough?

You did not tell them it's entirely possible use dangerous drugs safely.

[Nexii]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Maybe you have to start asking why so many people are so interested in taking the sort of drugs people overdose on so easily.

A lack of conservative family values? ?

I think a lot of the drug problems are just people coping with mental illnesses. Canada moved away from institutions and this is what we get - drug addicted people on the street. We should have reformed them (like many other things). It's sad to say but the USA does a better job of this than Canada.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I think this caricature you have of me in your head is just your own reflection.  

I was literally quoting you.  If you find that your own words inspire a 'cartoon image' of you in other people that might be something you want to work on

22 minutes ago, Nexii said:

I think a lot of the drug problems are just people coping with mental illnesses. Canada moved away from institutions and this is what we get - drug addicted people on the street. We should have reformed them (like many other things). It's sad to say but the USA does a better job of this than Canada.

There's a lot of truth in that.

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, Nexii said:

I think a lot of the drug problems are just people coping with mental illnesses. Canada moved away from institutions and this is what we get - drug addicted people on the street. We should have reformed them (like many other things). It's sad to say but the USA does a better job of this than Canada.

Then drug use should be treated as a medical issue.  Given it wasn't that long ago you could be sent to prison for life for small amounts of drugs in the US I have a difficult time believing mental institutions for the public down there are any better than the hellholes Canada shut down.

The people you're talking about on the street are not the same as people dying in what are probably for the most part loving homes where people miss them.  People in the street don't have that so it's no wonder they die in bigger droves.

In any case none of this changes the fact that its criminalization that causes deadlier drugs and that nothing on the menu of enforcement or compliance tools addresses that.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Meh...conservatives and right wingers were telling themselves the same things back in the 60's.

No they weren't. But hey - if it helps you to feel better to lie about it .... 

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Time to grow up.

Yeah - that's our line.

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You did not tell them it's entirely possible use dangerous drugs safely.

No, that's what you're trying to tell them.  Unfortunately they're dead now from trying that.