Canadian Defence News

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Get over yourself.

The Canadian Navy got exactly what it's requirements are.

Go back to playing your video games, The Canadian Navy is in it for real.

At your age, you still can't just have a comfortable discussion with people that isn't even political without throwing out insults?

Edited February 29 by I am Groot

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

it's a team effort

first the Frigate detects the submarine, often these days by Low Frequency Active SONAR

once you have a contact, the Frigate launches the helicopter, while also engaging the target itself

but lightweight torpedoes are often dropped on spec

like you don't know exactly where the Russian submarine is

but you drop torpedoes where you guess it might be

so there is a lot of flying back and forth, from and to the  ship, reloading torpedoes

although this is not one frigate operating on its own, it's going to be a Surface Action Group at least

you'll have dozens of frigates, extending out from a Carrier Strike Group, trying to keep the SSN's at bay

So then it sounds like surface ships do not hang back in safety as your previous post suggested they are in the fight chasing submarines. In which case wouldn’t helos with anti-ship missiles help defend against enemy surface ships hunting NATO subs?  Or at the very least provide a self- defence if it came too close to one of their sub-hunting surface ships?

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

So then it sounds like surface ships do not hang back in safety as your previous post suggested they are in the fight chasing submarines. In which case wouldn’t helos with anti-ship missiles help defend against enemy surface ships hunting NATO subs?  Or at the very least provide a self- defence if it came too close to one of their sub-hunting surface ships?

 I meant hanging back away from the land based A2AD threats you mentioned

but there would be an ASW campaign at the G-I-UK Gap and in the North Atlantic

in terms of enemy surface threats

the Russian surface fleet is a defensive fleet

the Russians defend their bastions in the Barents, Black, Baltic etc

but they don't have the capability to project surface power into the Atlantic

in terms of offensive actions, the Russians are a submarine navy

the Chinese too are limited as to how far from their protective air cover they could stray

bottom line tho, America/NATO is not sending Aircraft Carriers in first

first the NATO SSN's will go in and completely destroy the Russian and Chinese navies

once the submarine war is won, then you start attacking the land based A2AD

although the question really becomes, at what point does it go nuclear ?

because the Russians would lose the conventional war

they can't really compete with American SSN's

so at what point would the Kremlin resort to Nuclear Deescalation in the face of defeat  ?

I mean, they can't bomb New York City without inciting Armageddon

but they could get away with using tactical nuclear weapons at sea

this is in fact the Russian strategic doctrine : Nuclear Deescalation

 the Russian end game is "when do we use tactical nuclear weapons to force NATO to bargain ?"

because certainly America & NATO are not really prepared to nuke the world for Kiev & Warsaw

the optimum weapon for the Russians to use for Nuclear Deescalation

would actually be a nuclear torpedo

not used against a target which would incite massive retaliation of course

you shoot the torpedo at the American Carrier Strike Group at sea

underwater nuclear detonations are most effective against ships

the shock wave rips the hulls out, so you can sink a lot of ships with just one torpedo

but you haven't struck a land target, you haven't killed any civilians at all

so what is NATO really going to do, other than negotiate ?

because I would suggest that the Wall Street & Silicon Valley Oligarchs

are not in any way resolved to go down swinging like Curtis LeMay

the political class in the West no longer defend the free world

they hate the free world, they are the ones who are destroying our freedoms

so I doubt they are willing to die in a thermonuclear firestorm with their families for freedom

as opposed to getting on the Red Phone with the Kremlin and calling it off

and this is in fact the Russian ace in the hole

hence why it's called Nuclear Deescalation

remember that war itself is a form of negotiation

and there is a ceiling as to how far you can go with the conventional war

before a nuclear armed adversary invokes his ultimate deterrent

you can never win the war by conventional means

you are never going to roll your tanks into Red Square

so the war has to end by other means

which basically comes down to ; you sue for an armitice

or we all die an interpolar thermonuclear exchange

which of those options would these faithless cowardly politicians in the West choose ?

this is why I say the Russians are an exponentially more menacing threat than the Chinese

because the Chinese are actually quite reasonable

but I would not trifle with the Russian capacity for self immolation

they could lose fifty million killed and shake it off like ain't no thang

so the scenario would be that NATO wins the submarine war

then the Russians pop some nukes here and there

then NATO capitulates in the face of total annihilation

that is the Russian plan at least

I surmise that it has a reasonable chance of success

because in the event of war, I think NATO would fracture into camps

Eastern NATO would be prepared to go all the way

while Western NATO would be pulling the Chicken Switch as hard as can be

so how many torpedoes can a CH-148 carry ?

answer : I don't think that really matters in the grand scheme of things

what would be the role of the RCN in World War Three ?

answer ; who the f*ck cares ? Canada would be totally irrelevant to the outcome

Canada is just no man's land between America & Russia

Gwynne Dyer knows ;

Edited February 29 by Dougie93

[Army Guy]

14 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Dreams are not reality, they are dreams. Sometimes dreams cone true, other time not. Home ownership is not a right, it is wanted and desired and perhaps even dreamed about but it is not a right and is not promised by anyone.

I am still not aware of any active military members that are homeless. If you have evidence please share.

Post Living Differential i(PLD) s still available for those being posted. While it will disappear in a few years, it is still there and has been available in the past.  I know what it was like to be posted and the expense difference in various cities, but, we made do.

There were never enough PMQ's or single quarters for all the military personnel on most bases. This is nothing new. Exactly what do you suggest the Military do about housing? Anything different than what it does for the general public. The general public has to have 2 incomes if they want to buy a house. When we moved out of PMQ's into a house we bought in Edmonton, my neighbour asked how we could afford it. I looked in his driveway,where he parked his truck and camper and boat and car. I guess our priorities differed.

The Military pay today is far greater than it was in my time and it does go farther. We did what e]we had to to make ends meet,. so should they today. I cannot believe that you think the Military is underpaid. The Military, in fact, as I have shown, is very well paid and even you admit they are the highest paid in the world.

A CWO problem??? I was a MWO with 25 years in when I first made the money a fully qualified (3 years as a corporal) aviation tech now makes.

Habitat for Humanity houses are available for all that qualify. I suspect that most military corporals do not qualify (they make too much).I  do not know what the ombudsman has done or said about military pay.

As a MWO, I am very sure you could do nothing about your peoples spending habits. If they got into financial trouble you could only send them to counselling. I know I had to do that.

 

 

 

Another Esprit de corp article this time on housing....

 

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

what operations ?

you flew around in the back of a helicopter in Canada

what operation was that ?

Operation Pampered REMF ?

 

 

14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

thank you for your service, spilling coffee on your shirt from an office in Ottawa

 

Well doogie, being in SAR ops, saving, rescuing or med evacing Canadian is a lot more operational than you  sitting in your basement making shit up and worshipping murderers.

My NDHQ time was the end of my career and allowed me to see and understand how and why Military operations and procurement were made unlike you sitting in a basement and imagining how things ware or searching for useless old british videos to post.

Face it doogie, a full 35 year career in the regular Air Force trumps a part time stint and then living on false memories LOL off

 

Edited February 29 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

20 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 

 

 

Well doogie, being in SAR ops, saving, rescuing or med evacing Canadian is a lot more operational than you  sitting in your basement making shit up and worshipping murderers.

My NDHQ time was the end of my career and allowed me to see and understand how and why Military operations and procurement were made unlike you sitting in a basement and imagining how things ware or searching for useless old british videos to post.

Face it doogie, a full 35 year career in the regular Air Force trumps a part time stint and then living on false memories LOL off

 

still, you flew around Canada in the back of a helicopter, then worked in an office in Ottawa

it's not actually a military role

Canada could and should turn SAR over to a civilian agency

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Home ownership may be a dream, but having access to shelter while working for the military is another , it is not a dream but a right, be that single quarters or PMQ's....those were the chooses when you and i started our careers. Not many military couples managed to move out and purchase a home, back when postings were 2 to 4 years then move on...Today postings are over 10 years or more, and there is not enough PMQ's or single quarters to go around forcing members out on the economy to fend for themselves...

I'm sure if you goggled the ombudsmen report you'll find it all laid out there...it was also reported on by the media, so most have covered the story...

PLD was adjusted a few years ago, and now is also limited in scope and how long it covers a soldier...it does not address the problem of affordability, for a young cpl and his family... Those posted to Toronto, Victory, Vancouver PLD does very little to meet those needs... you should check out the prices of homes in those areas, and tell me 75 k is going to be enough to afford a home... 

In todays market yes i do think the military is under paid, for lots of reasons, one the military is suppose to have PMQ's and Single quarters to allow for emergency deployments, and for disaster response or other times when required like to hold refugees etc...all of that is gone to save funding...another Most benefits we had back then are gone like cheaper rents for PMQ and single quarters, today both are based on what can be found in your local area...because Canadians complained and that benefit was lost... Another we are short some 16000 plus soldiers, what is going to happen when they all come back...They have to go some where...

There is a recruiting crises ongoing, there is already a program put in place to offer bonus, to re-sign but thats where it stops....Military is competing with the rest of the country for young people, and they are not stopping very long at DND's door, RCMP wages are light years ahead of Military ones , plus they have kept a lot of other benefits where the military has cut...US service members have a lot more benefits than we could ever imagine that make up for the lack of wages...not to mention they have good solid equipment...

Of course pay has increased, it does not mean for one second things are more affordable, i can remember going to the movies with 2 bucks , get in, have way to much popcorn and candy, with some change left over , took my wife out to a movie last week cost me 60 bucks, so that point is a non starter...

WHY WOULD the CO tell his subordinates to go this route Habitat for Humanity houses if military persons did not qualify...if you can't see the red flags I'm sorry this post is some what a waste of time.

There is lots of things that a MWO could do, getting them Finical conconciling is one of them, talking to padra to get them into emergency quarters,or emergency loan form DND  if needed, letting the chain of command know so they are aware of the problem, so not to add to an already bad situation.  get marriage counseling if needed because it is not just the member thats effected it is the whole family...Making sure that soldier knows he is valued which could be as little as a talk every week or so to see how they are doing...making sure he is attending his counseling...and they are getting something out of it...

Or one that seems to be popular is we could just Dump that soldier all together marking him as administrative burden and getting them released which sometimes is also the best course of action. not my preferred course of action becasue everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes need a hand up...

OK, I get you are emotionally invested with this. There are very few military in Toronto or Vancouver. Victoria yes, but there has been Navy there for almost 100 years

Postings for the Air Force were averaging 4 years whereas in the Army, they were with. regiment and much longer. Navy was basically east or west coast and postings tours were much longer.

The housing issue is a national one, not just Military.

The wages military are paid is actual ahead of the average Canadian wage. "

 

 

The average salary in Toronto is $62,050, which is 14% higher than the Canadian average salary of $54,450."  https://www.careerbeacon.com/en/cost-of-living/toronto_ontario/70000-salary

A private soldier ,after 3 years makes $61K .

 

I never said anything was "more affordable" but I did say that is a national problem, be it groceries, gas, energy or housing. Same for Military as for civilians and , to be sure, a private after 3 years makes the average Canadian wage and the military pay goes up regularity from there, ( 4 years later, a Cpl makes $76K).  Army personnel also get deployment pay. I am not sure what it is now but it was not bad years ago so I am sure it has even gone up. Considering it costs the soldier nothing while on deployment, their pay stays at home (facetious).

 

Leaning on one quote by a misspoken CO that later apologized is fruitless. Don't be a dougie

 

Yes there was a lot a MWO or Chief could do and I did many of them but, I could not prevent personnel from overspending or getting themselves in debt again and again. I unfortunately had to release 2 persons for disobeying and constantly being a financial and administrative problem. Absolutely last resort but sometimes there is no help for some people. ( I had one guy that was given financial consolidation twice and 2 days after went out and bought a new truck, he was married living in PMQ's but the CO would not help anymore)

 

Bottom line Army Guy is that while we are (were) in the Military, the Military pay is not a problem anymore. The Military personnel actually make as much, and in some cases more, than civilians and are in the same situation regarding housing and day to day living as civilians.

 

Look, when you and I joined, things were pretty tight and we joined because we wanted the "life". When I got married, things were tighter and when we eventually bought a house, we ate hamburger all the time. We never had a vacation for over 10 years. Promotions were not automatic so pay raises were not either. We (you and I) lived through downsizing and pay freezes. I retired as a CWO with salary of $70K and today a CWO makes $125K+. So, when I hear about the Military not getting enough pay, I have to be realistic and make actual comparisons.

 

 

 

[ExFlyer]

58 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

still, you flew around Canada in the back of a helicopter, then worked in an office in Ottawa

it's not actually a military role

Canada could and should turn SAR over to a civilian agency

Well doogie, I did 25 years in that helicopter working for Canadians, you are doing 25 years in the basement playing Call of Duty and reliving your 20 minutes in the field.

Actually SAR is a NORAD requirement. Require SAR capability of any aircraft flying over the Arctic.

Lastly, as if you know anything about military roles? LOL A 15 minute soldier that bailed out LOL

Edited February 29 by ExFlyer

[ExFlyer]

9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

Another Esprit de corp article this time on housing....

 

A 10 year old report .

Bringing PMQ rents up to par was inevitable. Subsidies were being lost in all public service areas.

When CMHC took over PMQ's everyone knew that was going to happen. Also, how fair was it for those personnel that could not get into PMQ's?  If I remember, it was also the beginning of PLD to help those unable to get PMQ's

Edited February 29 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Well doogie, I did 25 years in that helicopter working for Canadians

everybody works for Canadians

everybody works hard, many do jobs far more dangerous than SAR,  and everybody pays taxes

not everybody gets to live the cushy government funded lifestyle of the domestic air force & NDHQ mind you

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh doogie, once a loser , always loser.

Just because you could not hack it and commit, don't demean those that did. LOL

I committed to my Regiment, the Colours & Queen Elizabeth II

I served with the Regular Force and it was a great adventure

but ultimately,  i just didn't want to live in Petawawa full time at that age

I wanted to live in Toronto, bright lights, big city

[Dougie93]

22 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Don't be a dougie

but I don't have any complaints about the lifestyle in the military

everything was top notch

the rations, the quarters, the facilities

compared to average working class Joe in Canada, we we pampered

other than the mission related hardships which I signed up for

my comfort & safety was seemingly the highest priority of the chain of command at the time

[Dougie93]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

 That all you can do is internet surf??

Youtube disables the videos if you use an add blocker

but if you post them to a third party forum like this, you can listen to the music ad free

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Excuses excuses, bottom line doogie, you were not what you think you were. You were a failure and loser then and even a bigger one now.

but living and working in Toronto gave me access to employment opportunities & connections

which set me up for life, 24 years happily married, living in a fully detached dream home

and certainly my wife was never going to be an army wife, she was not going to live in Petawawa

so I don't think being solely an infantryman living in Petwawa for thirty years would have yielded the same lifestyle

the Militia was in fact the best of both worlds, with no downside at all

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

How would you know about military lifestyle? You were barley there ot experience it LOL

serving with Toronto Garrison was great

the Regiment was my family, they took care of me in every respect

the people of Toronto treated us great

we were given the VIP treatment everywhere we went

the only problems were that which was imposed by NDHQ in Ottawa

otherwise, it was a joy to be a 48th Highlander of Canada

 

[Queenmandy85]

By even contemplating the scenario where a Russian incursion on any NATO member could be answered by anything other than a total nuclear response to destroy Russia completely is an invitation to go to war. The whole purpose of MAD is to prevent war. President Reagan's most useful policy was to convince the Soviets that he was crazy enough to destroy the world if they stepped out of line. That is a policy that must continue. Any war between Russia and NATO will be nuclear. (Same with China) The only way to truly deter them from making a mistake is to continue with the determination to destroy the world rather than surrender. Actually, there is one alternative. Make it clear that any incursion will be answered by an immediate and total surrender. 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

More UFI,,,(Useless F/n Information)

I wouldn't recommend anyone join the Regular Force now

when the highest priority at DND is putting tampons in the male washrooms

those considering joining the military should know that the Regular Force eats its own

it chews guys up then spits them out

the Militia is the best option

too much military is actually bad for your health

and Militia regiments are more closely knit and bound to the community

Petawawa was a harsh realm, literally Gladiator School

just fyi

[Dougie93]

25 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

By even contemplating the scenario where a Russian incursion on any NATO member could be answered by anything other than a total nuclear response to destroy Russia completely is an invitation to go to war. The whole purpose of MAD is to prevent war.

but MAD is not really in effect

in order to have MAD, or Mutual Vulnerability

you must get rid of all tactical nuclear weapons

for MAD, you can only have strategic nuclear weapons

you hold each others population centres hostage with multimegaton City Killers

if you have tactical nuclear weapons, then both sides are signalling that they intend to fight and win a nuclear war

tactical meaning "to fight"

a tactical nuclear weapon is only useful for a counterforce, which is a preemptive first strike

so with thousands of tactical nuclear weapons in play on both sides, we have never actually achieved MAD

in actual fact, things are rapidly going in the opposite direction

with both sides getting rid of their strategic weapons and replacing them with tactical weapons

both sides are now preparing for a counterforce enabled by Ballistic Missile Defence

as both the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces & 1972 Anti Ballistic Missile treaties have collapsed

the US Navy for example has deployed W76-2 warheads on the SSBN's

W76-2 has a yield as low as 5 kilotons

5 kiloton warheads are not for deterrence

those tactical warheads are only for a counterforce

wherein the SSBN's would launch a preemptive first strike with Trident II on a depressed trajectory

a theatre thermonuclear counterforce to destroy the Russian nuclear weapons prior to launch

on the Russian side, they deploy a whole range of tactical nuclear ballistic & cruise missiles

all of which are inherent counterforce weapons only to be used in a theatre war

so the contemporary nuclear war scenario no longer looks like it did in 1983

the scenario now is that a conventional war breaks out by miscalculation

the Russians eventually start to lose that war on the high seas

then the Russians employ their tactical nuclear weapons for Nuclear Deescalation

starting with a series of warning shots

then things escalate from there, if NATO launches a counterforce in response

you may not have an inter polar exchange at all therein

rather both sides simply fight a series of theatre thermonuclear wars against each others proxies

the nuclear powers are deterred from launching directly at each others territory

but that is not MAD preventing a nuclear war everywhere

and again, employing tactical nuclear weapons at sea is even more of a grey area

since neither side is likely to commit suicide in a massive retaliation

simply because some aircraft carriers & submarines get sunk

Edited February 29 by Dougie93

[ExFlyer]

36 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I wouldn't recommend anyone join the Regular Force now

...

Well doogie.

If you  hate the military that much, just shut up.

But, it seems to me that you cannot  committing about it, it's policies, it's procedures, it's capability, it's preparedness, it's equipment, it's leadership, it's weapons and it's status.

For a loser, for a short termer for a part timer, you sure got lots to say. The Military is sorry you ever spent time within and is glad you are gone LOL

Time to go doogie, time for you to log on Call of Duty and pretend again.

I still believe in the Canadian Military, all branches. I appreciate all the men and women presently serving. I honour those that unhesitatingly served. I will never disrespect you for doing ll you do with such limited resources. To those that serve and served with honour, thank you.

To losers like you doogie, F off.

Edited February 29 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Well doogie.

If you  hate the military that much, just shut up.

But, it seems to me that you cannot  committing about it, it's policies, it's procedures, it's capability, it's preparedness, it's equipment, it's leadership, it's weapons and it's status.

For a loser, for a short termer for a part timer, you sure got lots to say. The Military is sorry you ever spent time within and is glad you are gone LOL

Time to go doogie, time for you to log on Call of Duty and pretend again.

the military has been reduced to a laughing stock by the politicians & bureaucrats in Ottawa

I take no pleasure in speaking the truth of it

the military I joined in the 1980's certainly had problems, lack of funding, aging equipment, etc

but the sheer lunatic state of the military now, makes the 1980's look like a golden age in comparison

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I still believe in the Canadian Military

fealty to the military in of itself, regardless of the regime it serves, is called militarism

I am not a militarist, I never served the military, only the Queen

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

This thread is Canadian Defence News not the doogie hates the military news.

you're the one who keeps hijacking the thread

I was talking to Beaverfeaver on topic

then you diverted the thread into talking about me exclusively

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Only because your were spouting garbage and imaginary crap.

Getting  real and staying real is a problem you have.

The only topic you know is about you...

🤦🤦🤦

You served yourself and when they needed real men, you bailed.

in internet forum parlance, you are what is called a "hater/stalker"

that's a person who chases another member around a forum

ceaselessly hijacking threads to pursue some sort of personal vendetta

it becomes obsessive, wherein the hater/stalker can't even stop themselves from going off on seething tirades

it becomes like a mantra, wherein the hater/stalker repeats themselves over & over, seemingly involuntarily

[ExFlyer]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

in internet foru

Boo Hoo doogie.

Left you alone for long time until your cup of BS overflowed again.

I don't chase you,,, you are just there to be ridiculed. I cannot resit a fool.

Want me off your back, shut up.

I delete my repartee with you.

Edited February 29 by ExFlyer

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Want me off your back

not at all

your self inflicted provocation does not bother me

if you are want to obsessively hijack threads to talk about me

I'm happy to engage with that while carrying on other conversations at the same time