Canada's population will hit record 40M on Friday: StatCan

[cougar]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Precisely.  And given the wildfires i kind of sort of get it  - you CAN use some campstoves if they ULC AND CSA approved. But a lot of them aren't.

Even banning the fires and stoves would have been fine, if there was an alternatives.  I can probably afford $100-150/night for a clean place and a shower, but last I checked the Jasper to Banff stretch they are asking for $600-800/night (and are already booked!) .  In comparison for this amount of money you will have an all inclusive stay for a WEEK in many countries in Europe/Asia.  And you will get excellent food - continental with many choices, not just a measly breakfast with two pieces of toast, an orange, banana, a small box of jam or peanut butter etc!  We are constantly ripped off and told to be happy with it.

[SNOWFLAKE]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

when it comes to booking motels in the wilderness our country is one of the shittiest you can think of.  Everything is booked by this time of year at outrageous prices and what is left for you is a big hassle and the only viable option of sleeping in a tent.

THAT is the result of too much immigration??? Say what?

 

 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

You mean the way the dictionary reference you posted says?  Gee thanks.

That's why we give them citizenship.   (although some argue that just because you are born here doesn't mean you should have citizenship).  

But unless you're going to make some weird argument about how people are human beings at conception so wherever they were conceived is their origin.  In which case Niagara falls, honeymoon capital of the world, will find it's 'native' population is about to explode   LOLOLOL!!!

 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

That's why we give them citizenship.   (although some argue that just because you are born here doesn't mean you should have citizenship).

Sure, indigenous people are immigrants just like everyone else. ?

You figure that's how the SCC interprets it?

[cougar]

42 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

THAT is the result of too much immigration??? Say what?

 

 

I am not looking for the reason.  Just saying this is the reality.

Same with the healthcare system, Same with housing.  I hear pretty soon it will be the same with buying a vehicle - bidding wars and paying over asking price.

[SNOWFLAKE]

53 minutes ago, cougar said:

I am not looking for the reason.  Just saying this is the reality.

Same with the healthcare system, Same with housing.  I hear pretty soon it will be the same with buying a vehicle - bidding wars and paying over asking price.

Shit happens. Then we vote for a different party, and the shit gets worse. Sometimes you just have to do the best you can with what you have. 

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

Sure, indigenous people are immigrants just like everyone else. ?

 

No indigenous people are people who come from here. It's LITERALLY in the definition YOU posted

 

This is why everyone thinks you're an !diot. You make a statement,  post something that proves your statement was wrong, then argue with your own post.

Yeash.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

No indigenous people are people who come from here. It's LITERALLY in the definition YOU posted

Notice the definition didn't include being born here like you said.

 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

This is why everyone thinks you're an !diot. You make a statement,  post something that proves your statement was wrong, then argue with your own post.

Yeash.

Sure that's what's going on.?

[CdnFox]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Notice the definition didn't include being born here like you said.

 

Sure it did.  Go read it again and think about what each word means   

 

Quote

Sure that's what's going on.?

LOL -  Yeah, we know 

honestly it's one of the things that makes you so entertaining to have around. Everybody makes mistakes or makes a bad argument from time to time. But your ability to double down on being stupid about something is absolutely legendary.

No matter how wrong or dumb you have been, you will always seek to be wronger and dumber in defense of your wrongness and dumbness  It is constantly hilarious to watch  

[ExFlyer]

19 hours ago, cougar said:

I am not looking for the reason.  Just saying this is the reality.

Same with the healthcare system, Same with housing.  I hear pretty soon it will be the same with buying a vehicle - bidding wars and paying over asking price.

Like that hasn't happened with vehicles in the past, or even houses in the past few years?

Has nothing to do with immigrants, it has everything to do with supply and demand.

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Like that hasn't happened with vehicles in the past, or even houses in the past few years?

Has nothing to do with immigrants, it has everything to do with supply and demand.

Supply and demand is very obviously impacted directly by population growth. Our population is growing faster than our supply of core resources and services.

So it's fair to say it's a 'population" problem rather than an "immigrant" problem specifically, but right at the moment our population growth is being entirely driven by immigration.  So there's a connection.

We cannot allow our population to grow faster than our capacity to provide basic necessities.  Which means we either need to increase our growth in capacity to provide, OR look at reducing population growth presumably by restricting immigration till we CAN increase capacity.

[ExFlyer]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Supply and demand is very obviously impacted directly by population growth. Our population is growing faster than our supply of core resources and services.

So it's fair to say it's a 'population" problem rather than an "immigrant" problem specifically, but right at the moment our population growth is being entirely driven by immigration.  So there's a connection.

We cannot allow our population to grow faster than our capacity to provide basic necessities.  Which means we either need to increase our growth in capacity to provide, OR look at reducing population growth presumably by restricting immigration till we CAN increase capacity.

Only for those with money can do the buying..

It is not "our" responsibility to "proved basic necessities". Thinking that "we" need to provide is exactly the problem.

If everyone was to realize that they are the ones responsible for their own necessities and have to do what is necessary to attain them, we would be better off.  Perhaps there would not be a flood of immigrants, refugees and applicants if they understood they get nothing except the opportunity to live here.

Becoming or being a welfare state is not good for anyone in this country..

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Only for those with money can do the buying..

 

Sure. And if supply is solid then 100 percent can afford housing at reasonable rates.

As supply gets tighter that drops to 75 - and you have 25 percent of people displaced or struggling and they're angry about it.  IF things are REALLY tight then the prices keep going up and it's more like 50 50. The rest either struggle horribly to get by, have alternate arrangements like living with parents, or wind up homeless.

and so on. Pretty soon you've got a lot of very angry displaced people who feel they've got nothing to lose and things turn violent.

Quote

It is not "our" responsibility to "proved basic necessities". Thinking that "we" need to provide is exactly the problem.

Sure it is. The gov't has taken that on - it provides health care and completely controls the market over what homes can be built, etc

If the gov't is going ot take ownership of that it's responsible for making sure there's enough.  Otherwise - get out of the way entirely and let the market sort it.

So if they won't deal with supply - then they have to deal with demand and control the OTHER thing they're responsible for: Immigration

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

If everyone was to realize that they are the ones responsible for their own necessities and have to do what is necessary to attain them, we would be better off. 

Agreed but that's not the model our country currently works under when it comes to infrastructure and housing and certainly not immigration.

[ExFlyer]

47 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure. And if supply is solid then 100 percent can afford housing at reasonable rates.

As supply gets tighter that drops to 75 - and you have 25 percent of people displaced or struggling and they're angry about it.  IF things are REALLY tight then the prices keep going up and it's more like 50 50. The rest either struggle horribly to get by, have alternate arrangements like living with parents, or wind up homeless.

and so on. Pretty soon you've got a lot of very angry displaced people who feel they've got nothing to lose and things turn violent.

Sure it is. The gov't has taken that on - it provides health care and completely controls the market over what homes can be built, etc

If the gov't is going ot take ownership of that it's responsible for making sure there's enough.  Otherwise - get out of the way entirely and let the market sort it.

So if they won't deal with supply - then they have to deal with demand and control the OTHER thing they're responsible for: Immigration

Agreed but that's not the model our country currently works under when it comes to infrastructure and housing and certainly not immigration.

Supply and demand sets the prices. Even when the prices were absurdly high, people still had enough to have bidding wars. People that want, will get. Thing is, people want to live beyond their means and now, if interest rates climb due to economic reasons, they expect to be bailed out. Well, no! Their lack of forethought does not make me responsible for them not thinking. I can see the same crap that happened ion the US happening here. People just walking away from their houses. I saw that happen when I lived in Alberta in the early 80's.

Universal health care is not preventing anyone form buying a home. And certainly, the government does not prevent anyone form buying anything. In the early 80's still did not prevent buying.

The entire problem is peoples expectations. Can't have i tall so whine about government making  it tough to own a home. BS, lower expectations and live within your means. We do not owe anyone anything let alone housing.

As for supply and demand, the fact is the cost of building is the supply. It costs a lot to just buy the materials for a home and then huge labours costs and then labour shortages because no one want to work outside anymore, then the regulations and requirements of development then of course, profit for the builders and contractors and sub contractors. None of which are government issues but supply issues. No one is going to build if there are no buyers but wait.....every house built sells so....demand is there, regardless of interest rates and price.

Bottom line, they build them as fast as they can with the limitations of material and labour supply. They also sell them as fast as they can build them. Not only that, the resale market is equally as hot and they sell and in my city, they even have bidding wars again. Regardless of all the woe that you claim. So, someone sure has the money.

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Supply and demand sets the prices. Even when the prices were absurdly high, people still had enough to have bidding wars. People that want, will get.

Till they can't. Which is where we're at now.  The prices will continue to go up and up, and the people at the bottom get left behind each time there's an increase.

Quote

Universal health care is not preventing anyone form buying a home.

It's rediculous that you'd even suggest that.

But universal health care means that if the gov't doesn't provide MORE health care capacity when MORE people arrive, then there's less and less health care available for all.  And people start to get sicker for longer and eventually it gets to the point where they die unnecessarily. Which is where we're at now.

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

The entire problem is peoples expectations.

It has nothing to do with expectation.  And the problems with supply are ALL results of the different gov'ts activites. they prevent and discourage housing AND they let more people in than we have capacity for.
I would tend to agree with you 100 percent IF gov't would get out of the way. Let the developers build where and when they want and let the market handle itself.  And don't deliberately run up inflation.  But they don't.  Gov't causes the

Quote

 

problem - now they need to fix it.

As for supply and demand, the fact is the cost of building is the supply. I

 

Nope. Not even remotely an issue. Lets remember - this shortage didn't just happen. This has been an ongoing and escallating serious problem since about 2015-16 (where we started to fall SERIOUSLY behind) and a real and recognized issue before that.  Remember -trudeau ran in 2015 on addressing this issue, so it was clearly serious even then.  Prices have been very low during those years, many of those years were historically low adjusted for currency inflation.

So no - not the issue. This is simply too many people and not enough homes.

The PROPER solution is build more homes. But until that happens, you need to back off on bringing in too many people.

 

Quote

Bottom line, they build them as fast as they can with the limitations of material and labour supply.

Nor even remotely close, they could easily double production. THAT is the fact.  But - if you're right and they can't then they have to slow down immigration.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Till they can't. Which is where we're at now.  The prices will continue to go up and up, and the people at the bottom get left behind each time there's an increase.

It's rediculous that you'd even suggest that.

But universal health care means that if the gov't doesn't provide MORE health care capacity when MORE people arrive, then there's less and less health care available for all.  And people start to get sicker for longer and eventually it gets to the point where they die unnecessarily. Which is where we're at now.

It has nothing to do with expectation.  And the problems with supply are ALL results of the different gov'ts activites. they prevent and discourage housing AND they let more people in than we have capacity for.
I would tend to agree with you 100 percent IF gov't would get out of the way. Let the developers build where and when they want and let the market handle itself.  And don't deliberately run up inflation.  But they don't.  Gov't causes the

Nope. Not even remotely an issue. Lets remember - this shortage didn't just happen. This has been an ongoing and escallating serious problem since about 2015-16 (where we started to fall SERIOUSLY behind) and a real and recognized issue before that.  Remember -trudeau ran in 2015 on addressing this issue, so it was clearly serious even then.  Prices have been very low during those years, many of those years were historically low adjusted for currency inflation.

So no - not the issue. This is simply too many people and not enough homes.

The PROPER solution is build more homes. But until that happens, you need to back off on bringing in too many people.

 

Nor even remotely close, they could easily double production. THAT is the fact.  But - if you're right and they can't then they have to slow down immigration.

Not going to get into this with you. You have your opinion and I have mine, I stand by mine and don't agree with yours..

Sorry you cannot see or understand that all expenses by the builder are passed on to the buyer and prices go up and sorry you don't see resale home prices have gone up too. Inflation and the market is what sets the price. As you even said "Let the developers build where and when they want and let the market handle itself.  " and the builder and market are doing exactly that.

Go ahead, start insulting again. LOL

Edited July 3, 2023 by ExFlyer

[herbie]

But Justin the communist dictator could confiscate land build Soviet style blockhouses we could afford because that's what communist dictators are supposed to do!
So long as they're NIMBY

[ExFlyer]

22 minutes ago, herbie said:

But Justin the communist dictator could confiscate land build Soviet style blockhouses we could afford because that's what communist dictators are supposed to do!
So long as they're NIMBY

As far as some here are concerned, yes. LOL

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Not going to get into this with you. You have your opinion and I have mine, I stand by mine and don't agree with yours..

Well the facts say you're wrong. So if you prefer your feelings to fact then sure.

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Sorry you cannot see or understand that all expenses by the builder are passed on to the buyer and prices go up and sorry you don't see resale home prices have gone up too.

You just contradicted yourself.  If it's all about the cost of building then why would older homes go up.  They're already built.

The cost of building a home has gone up about 2-3 percent per year on average in the last 10 years.  If that.  I have a number of buildings that i receive insurance appraisals for every single year. They weren't even going up much till 2021.

The sale prices of homes have been going up rougly 9  percent a year. That is VASTLY higher than inflation or costs of goods. And that's compounding.

 

You're just wrong. It's not an opinion thing. It's basic facts. We build at least 100,000 homes FEWER than we need JUST TO KEEP UP WITH THE MINIMUM.   And we have since 2016 at least and it's getting worse.

If there's no homes, prices go up and people get left behind. You either have to build more homes or reduce the number of new people to match what you can build.

 

You might as well say it's your opinion the earth is flat.  It isn't. Sorry.

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by CdnFox

[cougar]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Has nothing to do with immigrants, it has everything to do with supply and demand.

Are you suggesting that bringing 1,000,000 homeless (immigrants) does nothing on the demand for rental units?

Or that bringing 1,000,000 immigrants does nothing on the demand for vehicles?  ?

[CdnFox]

Just now, cougar said:

Are you suggesting that bringing 1,000,000 homeless (immigrants) does nothing on the demand for rental units?

Or that bringing 1,000,000 immigrants does nothing on the demand for vehicles?  ?

He's already realized the 'supply and demand' part doesn't support his position when i posted the same thing, he's changed to 'personal responsibility' now so you might want to save yourself some time and read ahead

[ExFlyer]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well the facts say you're .....

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, cougar said:

Are you suggesting that bringing 1,000,000 homeless (immigrants) does nothing on the demand for rental units?

Or that bringing 1,000,000 immigrants does nothing on the demand for vehicles?  ?

Talk to me in 2 years. The price of everything will have gone up. Materials, labour, fees, all going up. Resale houses will cost more because sellers will see new is up so they will ask more as well. Market dictates.

Vehicles??? Of course the demand will be up, as it is every year. Will supply keep up? Time will tell.

The immigrants will be just fine, the rest of Canadians will be just fine too and you 2 will still be whining about the same thing

Edited July 4, 2023 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

 

Talk to me in 2 years. The price of everything will have gone up. Materials, labour, fees, all going up. Resale houses will cost more because sellers will see new is up so they will ask more as well. Market dictates.

Vehicles??? Of course the demand will be up, as it is every year. Will supply keep up? Time will tell.

The immigrants will be just fine, the rest of Canadians will be just fine too and you 2 will still be whining about the same thing

Things are not just fine right now, never mind in 2 years.  You have to have your  head in the sand not to have noticed there's a serious housing crisis. Things are considered to be 'very bad' financially if you have to spend more than 30 percent of your pre tax income on housing and close to half of canadians are at that point already in most of the provinces (not the prairies yet but soon).

So I don't need to wait 2 years. Right this second we have a serious shortage of homes, people can't afford shelter, we also have a shortage of medical services, and the number of homes being built is going down while the population is rising. Immigrants are already struggling.  The percentage of people who can afford to own a home is falling rapidly and that forces people into a rental market that they don't control. 

We're already there.  And it's going to get worse.  So we have to either build a LOT more homes (and other infrastructure) or bring in less immigrants to match what we are building. It's simple math.  Just like 2+2=4 is not an opinion.
 

 

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Things are not just fine right now, never mind in 2 years.  You have to have your  head in the sand not to have noticed there's a serious housing crisis. Things are considered to be 'very bad' financially if you have to spend more than 30 percent of your pre tax income on housing and close to half of canadians are at that point already in most of the provinces (not the prairies yet but soon).

So I don't need to wait 2 years. Right this second we have a serious shortage of homes, people can't afford shelter, we also have a shortage of medical services, and the number of homes being built is going down while the population is rising. Immigrants are already struggling.  The percentage of people who can afford to own a home is falling rapidly and that forces people into a rental market that they don't control. 

We're already there.  And it's going to get worse.  So we have to either build a LOT more homes (and other infrastructure) or bring in less immigrants to match what we are building. It's simple math.  Just like 2+2=4 is not an opinion.
 

 

Wah Wah Wah   I told you already it will cost more... every year.

Give me a year where prices and cost of living has gone down.... Oh, you cannot...what a surprise. Live with it.

The government owes you nothing.

 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Wah Wah Wah  

 

Well that's about the height of your intellect i guess.

Obviously the math is a little too complex for you.  If prices and people's income are going up at the same rate then really nothing is going up.  But if prices go up more than income - that means people have LESS

Quote

Give me a year where prices and cost of living has gone down

In real terms? Every single year from 2006 to about 2017 - 2018 with the exception of about 3 around 2008.

Prices went up but wages went up slightly faster. So in terms of real dollars or purchasing power life actually got cheaper for quite a while. And even when it didn't it was pretty level.'

Now - wages are going up about 4 percent, but inflation has been above that for a couple of years and still is, and wage increases are slowing.  Housing, a major cost of living, is shooting up right now at close to 15 percent.  And it's getting harder and harder to find somewhere to live.

I don't know - maybe the math is just too complicated for you?   We're in trouble RIGHT NOW.  And if the prices continue to climb faster than incomes - which is NOT the case normally - then it gets worse.

And if there's not enough homes then the price will continue to climb until it becomes unaffordable entirely for a growing percent of the population on the bottom.

 

[ExFlyer]

29 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well that's about the height of your intellect i guess.

Obviously the math is a little too complex for you.  If prices and people's income are going up at the same rate then really nothing is going up.  But if prices go up more than income - that means people have LESS

In real terms? Every single year from 2006 to about 2017 - 2018 with the exception of about 3 around 2008.

Prices went up but wages went up slightly faster. So in terms of real dollars or purchasing power life actually got cheaper for quite a while. And even when it didn't it was pretty level.'

Now - wages are going up about 4 percent, but inflation has been above that for a couple of years and still is, and wage increases are slowing.  Housing, a major cost of living, is shooting up right now at close to 15 percent.  And it's getting harder and harder to find somewhere to live.

I don't know - maybe the math is just too complicated for you?   We're in trouble RIGHT NOW.  And if the prices continue to climb faster than incomes - which is NOT the case normally - then it gets worse.

And if there's not enough homes then the price will continue to climb until it becomes unaffordable entirely for a growing percent of the population on the bottom.

 

Whine some more....it will cost you more next year LOL