Does it make sense to continue funding Ukraine?

[Nationalist]

On 7/17/2023 at 3:57 PM, Moonbox said:

What's funny to me is how these muddled buffoons are still pretending that Russia is a massive superpower - like it's impossible to beat an incompetently led, poorly supplied enemy full of soldiers who don't want to be there.  

Lol...drunk on Kool-aid.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

No it is not. Those eastern provinces ASKED Russia for help...for several years.

Do you have a cite on that? 

I'm sure there is a Pro-Russian faction in these region, especially now that Russia can deport all Ukrainians out of the region. 

You play right into Russian Propaganda. 

[Nationalist]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Do you have a cite on that? 

I'm sure there is a Pro-Russian faction in these region, especially now that Russia can deport all Ukrainians out of the region. 

You play right into Russian Propaganda. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/12/ukraine-crisis-donetsk-region-asks-join-russia

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-idINKBN0GB1DE20140811

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

Boges...do you always deny reality? Or just this one time?

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/12/ukraine-crisis-donetsk-region-asks-join-russia

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-idINKBN0GB1DE20140811

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know

Boges...do you always deny reality? Or just this one time?

I'm not denying the existence of a separatist movement backed by Russia. It does not mean that Russia is entitled to that land. There was conflict there since 2014. 

This is a war for all of Ukraine. Should Ukraine cede portions of these regions they control to obtain peace? 

Like in the 30's that's just appeasing a tyrant. 

[Nationalist]

29 minutes ago, Boges said:

I'm not denying the existence of a separatist movement backed by Russia. It does not mean that Russia is entitled to that land. There was conflict there since 2014. 

This is a war for all of Ukraine. Should Ukraine cede portions of these regions they control to obtain peace? 

Like in the 30's that's just appeasing a tyrant. 

LOL...its cute how all you war mongers love to lean on events a century ago.

I see no evidence that Russia has designs on any NATO nation. But should NATO get directly involved...all bets are off and you fine blood-thirsty folks will have more war that you all can handle.

Is that what you want?

[Moonbox]

50 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

LOL...its cute how all you war mongers love to lean on events a century ago.

It's cuter how you're calling us warmongers for opposing the Russian invasion of Ukraine undertaken by a warmonger you parrot at every opportunity.  Dumb dumb dumb.  

[Boges]

50 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

LOL...its cute how all you war mongers love to lean on events a century ago.

I see no evidence that Russia has designs on any NATO nation. But should NATO get directly involved...all bets are off and you fine blood-thirsty folks will have more war that you all can handle.

Is that what you want?

They don't because they can't. 

The Russians are the warmongers here. And you support their ability to annex land. 

[Nationalist]

30 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

It's cuter how you're calling us warmongers for opposing the Russian invasion of Ukraine undertaken by a warmonger you parrot at every opportunity.  Dumb dumb dumb.  

You are warmongers. You know Russia is going nowhere. You also know that without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of maintaining any of that eastern region. But you still what the meat-grinder to continue entertaining you.

32 minutes ago, Boges said:

They don't because they can't. 

The Russians are the warmongers here. And you support their ability to annex land. 

No...I support the residents of those regions to have their 2 referendums adhered to.

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You are warmongers. You know Russia is going nowhere. You also know that without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of maintaining any of that eastern region. But you still what the meat-grinder to continue entertaining you.

No...I support the residents of those regions to have their 2 referendums adhered to.

You mean the post invasion referendums? You're really that dense. 

[Moonbox]

Just now, Nationalist said:

You are warmongers. You know Russia is going nowhere. You also know that without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of maintaining any of that eastern region. But you still what the meat-grinder to continue entertaining you.

I don't know that, because I don't get my "news" from Tucker Carlson and the rest of the conspiracy web.  

Putin is the warmonger, but you sit here repeating everything he says like a dumb muppet and blaming everyone else for the conflict he created.  ?

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You are warmongers. You know Russia is going nowhere. You also know that without NATO boots on the ground, Ukraine doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of maintaining any of that eastern region. But you still what the meat-grinder to continue entertaining you.

You can't even hide your Putin fandom. LOL. 

The meat-grinder is coming from the Russian side sending their own young men to die in the tens of thousands. 

[Nationalist]

Just now, Boges said:

You mean the post invasion referendums? You're really that dense. 

Are you trying to say that the Russian military action began BEFORE May 11, 2014?

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Moonbox said:

I don't know that, because I don't get my "news" from Tucker Carlson and the rest of the conspiracy web.  

Putin is the warmonger, but you sit here repeating everything he says like a dumb muppet and blaming everyone else for the conflict he created.  ?

As opposed to you who thirstily gulps down all of the Zelinsky propaganda machine?

There's a term for those like you...
useful id1ot.

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

You can't even hide your Putin fandom. LOL. 

The meat-grinder is coming from the Russian side sending their own young men to die in the tens of thousands. 

I'm a "fan" of reality and peace.

You? Not so much.

[Boges]

7 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

As opposed to you who thirstily gulps down all of the Zelinsky propaganda machine?

Or all of Independent Western Media. You even cited some earlier. 

Quote

There's a term for those like you...
useful id1ot.

That's what Putin calls the likes of you. 

Quote

I'm a "fan" of reality and peace.

They you shouldn't support Putin's violent invasion of an independent. AND have them rewarded for such an invasion. 

[Perspektiv]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

They you shouldn't support Putin's violent invasion of an independent. AND have them rewarded for such an invasion. 

This is something that should have hastily been stopped before the invasion. Diffusion is ideal as a preventative tactic.

The tough talk from the US continued, and the Sabre rattling from Russia grew angrier.

Ukraine literally looked complacent, surrounded by a foe's military. When you're surrounded by enemy troops, you should be scrambling to the negotiating table.

Now, it's too late to "let Russia get away with it".

He already has. He invaded Ukraine.

Killed, raped, mutilated God knows how many Ukrainian citizens. Tortured countless others.

Destroyed artifacts, their sense of identity. Their land.

It would be like me robbing your house, and taking all of your memories and burning them along with the house. You can fight me all you want. I will leave with a piece of you you could never rebuild.

You are talking someone who had a mobile incinerator that bodies were tossed into, to minimize evidence.

The negotiating will be on his terms.

Land will be lost. There is zero doubt about this.

They entered, and bogarted your most valuable asset. Your sea fronting land. 

Talks is the only way to stop this. Period.

[Moonbox]

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

As opposed to you who thirstily gulps down all of the Zelinsky propaganda machine?

The Zelensky propaganda machine that apparently controls all mainstream media in Europe, North America, most of South America, SEA etc, right?  

Your worldviews, on the other hand, are aligned with such upstanding global citizens as Iran, Syria, North Korea China. What a schmuck! ?

25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I'm a "fan" of reality and peace.

"Fan of reality", says the Trumpy election denier.  ???

[Nationalist]

30 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The Zelensky propaganda machine that apparently controls all mainstream media in Europe, North America, most of South America, SEA etc, right?  

Your worldviews, on the other hand, are aligned with such upstanding global citizens as Iran, Syria, North Korea China. What a schmuck! ?

"Fan of reality", says the Trumpy election denier.  ???

Great arguments. Now here's your bottle...its nappy-time.

[Perspektiv]

People who feel continuing to fund this war vs pressuring all sides to end it, is ridiculous.

Zelenskyys tough talk, would doom the US to spend trillions and barely regain lost land.

It essentially would aim to fully destroy Putin. 

Reality, is the countries that still fully support him, won't stop doing so. This buys him plenty of time.

[Moonbox]

$113B from the US so far...after a year in a half...so trillions more means this goes on for another 15-20 years.  

Good math brainlet.  

[Perspektiv]

I call it. January 2024, end of month. The demand an end to the war and Ukraine makes consessions to make it happen.

Voters spoke. Spending billions on a preventable work makes absolutely no sense.

 

[August1991]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I call it. January 2024, end of month. The demand an end to the war and Ukraine makes consessions to make it happen.

Voters spoke. Spending billions on a preventable work makes absolutely no sense.

 

Jan 2024? I go with the 2024 date of the Iowa caucus, or the NH primary. Whichever party.

America, what a country! You Americans solve your problems and renew your State.

Edited July 22, 2023 by August1991

[Perspektiv]

There should be pressure on Ukraine to end this. To take a deal. Pressure on Russia to take a deal.

Sending them weapons only keeps this gridlock for months if not years.

Thinking Russia will lose tens of thousands of men and relinquish land without a major concession is insane.

Ukraine isn't in the driver's seat to call any shots.

They would have to give Russia catastrophic losses. Take back entire regions, which I just don't see happening.

 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

There should be pressure on Ukraine to end this. To take a deal. Pressure on Russia to take a deal.

Sending them weapons only keeps this gridlock for months if not years.

Thinking Russia will lose tens of thousands of men and relinquish land without a major concession is insane.

Ukraine isn't in the driver's seat to call any shots.

They would have to give Russia catastrophic losses. Take back entire regions, which I just don't see happening.

 

 

Who would accept losing part of their country to some criminal regime next door in this day and age? The Russians seem to think it’s 1823, not 2023, and they can still steal whatever they want. If the forces of liberty and order don’t make a stand here then all of Europe is up for grabs. 

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Who would accept losing part of their country to some criminal regime next door in this day and age?

Of course, nobody. But here we are. 

Its like a nasty divorce.

She is already in your house. She wants the entire thing. Your car. Half your life savings, as getting breast implants isn't cheap.

Its under your name, not hers. 

But the legal fees she is dragging you through, will rise to the 100s of thousands within a couple years. 

She is getting free consultations due to her lower salary, and enjoying putting you through it out of spite. You had the "audacity" to ask for a divorce.

Two options. Stick it out, out of principle. You refuse to give an inch. One issue. Your are now borrowing from others to stay afloat. You need that money to survive. Your mental health is being destroyed.

Find a happy medium, swallow your pride, and consider it a lesson learned on a prenuptial agreement. You should have gotten one, or been preventative to avoid this from the onset. You should have played nice with the wife. You knew she was petty and vindictive.

Russia is in your house. Not your border. They will not leave. They are crazy enough to burn it down. You refused to play nice, and felt entitled to things the US were gassing you up with. "You can do so much better than her!" "You're entitled to have a life!"

Stick to principle, which is great on paper or negotiate a signed peace agreement and get the prenuptial agreement via NATO with what you have left once in a better negotiating position?