Feds giving 13 billion dollars subsidy to Volkswagon EV battery plant

[blackbird]

The federal government just announced they are giving 13 billion dollars to the multinational corporation, Volkswagon, over ten years, to subsidize the building of an EV battery plant in Ontario.  The Canadian taxpayer's federation and the opposition party are opposed to this and say according to their calculations this will cost taxpayers about 1.6 million dollars per job to create 8,000 jobs.  Here is a classic example of how liberals and left are Socialists and use taxpayer's money to promote their Socialist ideology.  Government has all kinds of regulations and interfere constantly with private enterprise in Canada but spend billions of dollars for things that they favour which fit in with their ideology.  

Is this part of the great "transition" away from fossil fuels to EVs?  If green energy is a sensible investment and electric vehicles are such a great thing, why does it take so much taxpayer money to develop it?  If it is a profitable industry, why are we forced to subsidize a multinational corporation to do this?  In the meantime the feds are hammering the energy industry in Alberta and the west and have been blocking the construction of pipelines in Canada.  Even refusing to help ship natural gas to Europe and Japan.

$13B for an EV battery plant — and that's just from the feds | Watch (msn.com)

Edited April 21, 2023 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

14 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The federal government just announced they are giving 13 billion dollars to the multinational corporation, Volkswagon, over ten years, to subsidize the building of an EV battery plant in Ontario.  The Canadian taxpayer's federation and the opposition party are opposed to this and say according to their calculations this will cost taxpayers about 1.6 million dollars per job to create 8,000 jobs.  Here is a classic example of how liberals and left are Socialists and use taxpayer's money to promote their Socialist ideology.  Government has all kinds of regulations and interfere constantly with private enterprise in Canada but spend billions of dollars for things that they favour which fit in with their ideology.  

Is this part of the great "transition" away from fossil fuels to EVs?  If green energy is a sensible investment and electric vehicles are such a great thing, why does it take so much taxpayer money to develop it?  If it is a profitable industry, why are we forced to subsidize a multinational corporation to do this?  In the meantime the feds are hammering the energy industry in Alberta and the west and have been blocking the construction of pipelines in Canada.  Even refusing to help ship natural gas to Europe and Japan.

While it is easy tor throw out assertions like "cost taxpayers about 1.6 million dollars per job to create 8,000 jobs" what is overlooked in those statements is that the community and city which this plant is being developed regains life.

St Thomas suffered greatly when Ford and the affiliated manufacturing and assembly plants closed.  So, it is not just the 8000 direct jobs being created, it is all the support and ancillary work and economic life it brings back to St Thomas.

As far as the Alberta energy issue, BC and the indigenous are the ones blocking pipelines West and Quebec is blocking it going East and the US is blocking it going South.

 

[Aristides]

I see them working on the TMX every day.

[blackbird]

The federal government, Trudeau specifically, killed the Northern Gateway Pipeline project and the Energy East Pipeline project after he was elected in 2015.  Since there was only one pipeline to the west coast from Alberta, the Trans Mountain Pipeline, already in existence for over 50 years and it needed expansion, the government had no choice but to take if over to get it built.  It is the only pipeline there is to ship Alberta oil to the west coast.  So they had no choice.  But aside from that the federal government is opposed to the energy industry and is working on transitioning away from fossil fuels, which is unrealistic because they will be with us for the foreseeable future.  Trudeau and company live in an alternate reality and are imposing their ideology on the rest of Canada at our expense.

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The federal government, Trudeau specifically, killed the Northern Gateway Pipeline project and the Energy East Pipeline project after he was elected in 2015.  Since there was only one pipeline to the west coast from Alberta, the Trans Mountain Pipeline, already in existence for over 50 years and it needed expansion, the government had no choice but to take if over to get it built.  It is the only pipeline there is to ship Alberta oil to the west coast.  So they had no choice.  But aside from that the federal government is opposed to the energy industry and is working on transitioning away from fossil fuels, which is unrealistic because they will be with us for the foreseeable future.  Trudeau and company live in an alternate reality and are imposing their ideology on the rest of Canada at our expense.

Due to indigenous involvement. One elected group OK'd the deal the traditional chiefs did not.

Quebec would not l and will not let pipelines be build through Quebec.

And the US (Biden) killed the pipeline going south.

 

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

One elected group OK'd the deal the traditional chiefs did not.

"Traditional chiefs" are a small group of unelected self-proclaimed hereditary chiefs that claim to speak for everyone else.  The actual band councilors are elected by each band and speak for the bands across the region.   In the case of the Coastal Gaslink Pipeline project now being built, as far as I know, all the band councils have approved of the project.  Only the unelected chiefs oppose it and they do not speak for the great majority of the bands.   It would have been the same situation with the Northern Gateway Pipeline if the process had been allowed to continue through the consultation process to completion.  Most of the elected band councils would have approved it and the unelected chiefs would have opposed it.  That's just how it works in B.C.  The unelected chiefs are part of an archaic aboriginal system that has no place in Canada or modern society because they are living in the past and using it as a way to try to block any development, claim the whole province for themselves and extort everything they can out of white man.  If people listened to them, there would be no Canada.

[blackbird]

This article helps to show why the push for fast transitioning to EVs is misguided.  Canadian towns and cities do not presently have the electrical infrastructure to accommodate large numbers of EVs.  This fellow found in his neighbourhood, the electrical company does not even have adequate wiring to be able to install 200 amp panels for EVs in his home.  The underground wiring to accommodate that higher current is simply not there.  So not only do homes and apartment buildings not have the facilities available for charging stations, but it appears in some cases at least, the electrical companies do not have the street power lines to be able to accommodate the change.  But it appears the federal government doesn't care about that.  They are pushing ahead regardless.  People should be very careful before they buy an EV and make sure they can have a charging station at their home to be able to charge it overnight.  In many cases it may not be possible.

GUNTER: Entire federal push for EVs and eco regulations a scam (msn.com)

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"Traditional chiefs" are a small group of unelected self-proclaimed hereditary chiefs that claim to speak for everyone else.  The actual band councilors are elected ....

Same situation with the Northern Gateway Pipeline if the process had been allowed to continue ..... 

The unelected chiefs are part of an archaic aboriginal system that has no place in Canada or modern society because they are living in the past and using it as a way to try to block any development,....

Look, I gave you reasons.

The traditional chiefs even got sympathy in Ontario where they blockaded the rail line so, like it or not, they have power.

Don't like em, sorry.

This is your topic on VW battery plant, try sticking to it.

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

This article helps to show why the push for fast transitioning to EVs is misguided.  Canadian towns and cities do not presently have the electrical infrastructure to accommodate large numbers of EVs.  This fellow found in his neighbourhood, the electrical company does not even have adequate wiring to be able to install 200 amp panels for EVs in his home.  The underground wiring to accommodate that higher current is simply not there.  So not only do homes and apartment buildings not have the facilities available for charging stations, but it appears in some cases at least, the electrical companies do not have the street power lines to be able to accommodate the change.  But it appears the federal government doesn't care about that.  They are pushing ahead regardless.  People should be very careful before they buy an EV and make sure they can have a charging station at their home to be able to charge it overnight.  In many cases it may not be possible.

GUNTER: Entire federal push for EVs and eco regulations a scam (msn.com)

Your topic and issue, as you brought it, is "will cost taxpayers about 1.6 million dollars per job to create 8,000 jobs. "  when in fact, it is much more. It is economically bailing out an entire city.

EV production and use is already being discussed elsewhere.

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The traditional chiefs even got sympathy in Ontario where they blockaded the rail line so, like it or not, they have power.

Only because the federal government lets them get away with it.  Trudeau panders to them and is afraid to enforce the law.  They should have been arrested and thrown in jail.

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

It is economically bailing out an entire city.

Why is the federal government not bailing out the towns in B.C. where mills have shut down?  Taxpayers should not be forced to bail out or build EV battery plants.

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Only because the federal government lets them get away with it.  Trudeau panders to them and is afraid to enforce the law.  They should have been arrested and thrown in jail.

Not the point, traditional chiefs, no matter what you think of them, got sympathy.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

While it is easy tor throw out assertions like "cost taxpayers about 1.6 million dollars per job to create 8,000 jobs" what is overlooked in those statements is that the community and city which this plant is being developed regains life.

St Thomas suffered greatly when Ford and the affiliated manufacturing and assembly plants closed.  So, it is not just the 8000 direct jobs being created, it is all the support and ancillary work and economic life it brings back to St Thomas.

As far as the Alberta energy issue, BC and the indigenous are the ones blocking pipelines West and Quebec is blocking it going East and the US is blocking it going South.

 

That assertion is a fact, it is costing tax payers 1.6 million per job.

Lots of Canadian cities and towns that have suffered for closures of main industry's, Atlantic Canada, Western Canada  is full of them and all of them would love for the federal government to spend over 13 billion in their cities to bring life back to them. 

I guess all those liberal bills restricting how our national resources are brought to market, or transported, have not been a key factor in all this, And the Federal government still has the power of veto to drive through any project it wants to do, within our borders which if it had the will it would have done... but that was not part of the liberal narrative, it did not want any of those projects to go through shit it was even at one point paying the protestors wages.

[blackbird]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Not the point, traditional chiefs, no matter what you think of them, got sympathy.  

That's because we have a lot of ignorant, uneducated people in Canada that support extremists and radicals.  Canada is a mess.  These are law breakers.  They break the law and you support them?

[ExFlyer]

Just now, blackbird said:

Why is the federal government not bailing out the towns in B.C. where mills have shut down?  Taxpayers should not be forced to bail out or build EV battery plants.

Oh stop.... you try hard but have no point.

Mills shutting down is again, indigenous not wanting logging on their lands or, the market is not their for the wood or labour has priced itself out of the market.

Oh and, no mill has closed causing 8000 job losses.

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Army Guy said:

That assertion is a fact, it is costing tax payers 1.6 million per job.

Lots of Canadian cities and towns that have suffered for closures of main industry's, Atlantic Canada, Western Canada  is full of them and all of them would love for the federal government to spend over 13 billion in their cities to bring life back to them. 

I guess all those liberal bills restricting how our national resources are brought to market, or transported, have not been a key factor in all this, And the Federal government still has the power of veto to drive through any project it wants to do, within our borders which if it had the will it would have done... but that was not part of the liberal narrative, it did not want any of those projects to go through shit it was even at one point paying the protestors wages.

I am not in a position or have any desire to defend the feds, let alone the liberals, especially considering the liberal horror show from Ontario (McGuinty and Wynne) but, Ontario is the liberal bread and butter and Cache Creek in BC is not.

I ask you, what industry do you think should be brought back for the Atlantic or BC (or Alberta, Sask, Manitoba)? Fact is, the manufacturing hub was and is Ontario.

What wages were paid??

[Aristides]

24 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Why is the federal government not bailing out the towns in B.C. where mills have shut down?  Taxpayers should not be forced to bail out or build EV battery plants.

Mills are shutting down because of lack of wood. 

[blackbird]

19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Mills shutting down is again, indigenous not wanting logging on their lands

No, the indigenous do not own all the lands.  Why do you think we have laws in Canada?  They do not own whatever they claim as their traditional territories.  If they did, there would no be no industry and no Canada.  Do you even understand how Canadian laws work?

But the main reason mills shut down is because of provincial NDP policies and costs that make it too expensive to log and run mills 

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Mills are shutting down because of lack of wood. 

No, there is lots of wood.  But NDP are creating more forest preserves.  They don't care about our main industry in B.C.

[ExFlyer]

29 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That's because we have a lot of ignorant, uneducated people in Canada that support extremists and radicals.  Canada is a mess.  These are law breakers.  They break the law and you support them?

Yeah, OK.

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, the indigenous do not own all the lands.  Why do you think we have laws in Canada?  They do not own whatever they claim as their traditional territories.  If they did, there would no be no industry and no Canada.  Do you even understand how Canadian laws work?

But the main reason mills shut down is because of provincial NDP policies and costs that make it too expensive to log and run mills 

Have you been paying attention to the land deal being made? Especially in BC??

[blackbird]

18 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Have you been paying attention to the land deal being made? Especially in BC??

Most of the province does not belong to aboriginals.  There is the odd small piece of land that the government has given them, but that is a tiny part of B.C.  The idea that they own or are entitled to huge parts of B.C. is propaganda nonsense that you seem to believe.  You came to Canada but don't understand what Canada is or how it works.  Yet you are telling Canadians we don't own the land.  Wow!  NO wonder you think I am intolerable.  I stand for Canada belonging to Canadians.  You think it belongs to aboriginals because you came from somewhere else and listened to all the red power nonsense and never learned anything about Canada.

Edited April 21, 2023 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Most of the province does not belong to aboriginals.  There is the odd small piece of land that the government has given them, but that is a tiny part of B.C.  The idea that they own or are entitled to huge parts of B.C. is propaganda nonsense that you seem to believe.  You came to Canada but don't understand what Canada is or how it works.  Yet you are telling Canadians we don't own the land.  Wow!  NO wonder you think I am intolerable.  I stand for Canada belonging to Canadians.  You think it belongs to aboriginals because you came from somewhere else and listened to all the red power nonsense and never learned anything about Canada.

I am born and raised in Canada.

Seems to me it is you that does not understand indigenous rights, authority, land and power.

Hey, your topic, stick to it LOL

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Yet you are telling Canadians we don't own the land.

according to the Constitution Act 1982

King Charles III owns 91.3% of the land in Canada

only 9.7% of the land in Canada is privately owned

 

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I am born and raised in Canada

OK, I was mistaken on that point.  But you don't seem to understand how Canada works if you think natives can blockade railways and have a valid claim.  Many native rights activists claim traditional territory is theirs.  But that is complete nonsense.  As Dougie pointed out the most of the land belongs to the Crown.  Aboriginals claims of traditional territory does not mean anything.  That is just a bargaining ploy.  You seem to think they own the land.  Don't know what kind of education you had or where you learned that.  It is rubbish.