Child Care

[August1991]

Sweden had a one-size-fits-all bureaucratic style of child-care system but have begun to dismantle it. Parents were revolting en masse. They’re moving to a system of direct payments to parents where parental choice can be facilitated.

....

Q: Why did Stephen Harper pick you to help come up with this plan?

A: It’s because I have a public policy background and child care was one of the policies I became involved in. It’s a very important issue and I’m happy to be involved in the process and contribute. We’ve been working alongside a number of different women’s groups. I have an interest in what makes good public policy and social programs should not be developed that discriminate against two-thirds of Canadians.

Edmonton Journal

Smart, very smart. And right.

[newbie]

August, is there any mention of regulated or accredited child care facilities and instructors with the CPC plan or is this a provincial jurisdiction?

[August1991]

August, is there any mention of regulated or accredited child care facilities and instructors with the CPC plan or is this a provincial jurisdiction?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Newbie, do you have young children?

-----

Mr. Martin unveiled the childcare plank of his platform Tuesday during a campaign stop in Saint John, saying the Liberals will make programs "a permanent addition to out social foundation."

He spoke of childcare in the same breath as medicare. "This program is here to stay… It is a right for our children."

G & M

OMG. Child care will become a bureaucratic, waiting list wasteland like our health system - subject to endless political debate. Except, if this happens, the future of the country will be at stake. People would cease to have children except for the rich who could afford private child care at home...

If this is what Paul Martin believes, that the State should take complete control of child rearing from birth, without regard to the opinions of parents except through day care committees and waiting lists, then this election will be decisive.

[newbie]

August, I have no young children but I do have two grandchildren who are currently accessing child care services. I worry more about trained staff and accreditied programs and facilities that anything.

[The Honest Politician]

My wife works at a semi-private daycare. It costs over $30 a day per child without any Govt assistance. That can get very expensive. I don't see how $25 a week fixes that problem.

[err]

My wife works at a semi-private daycare. It costs over $30 a day per child without any Govt assistance.  That can get very expensive. I don't see how $25 a week fixes  that problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXACTLY !!!!! For those parents who need daycare because they both have to work to make ends meet, the CPC will give nearly 20% of what is needed. So this way, NOBODY GETS GOOD CHILDCARE unless they could afford the other 80%.

the Conservative idea of giving a few hundred dollars to parents will never build a quality, affordable, accessible regulated system."

And then, there's the issue of the Big-Box Daycare centre, where they're sure to track down your kid when you go to pick them up.... These fit just fine with both the Liberals and CPCs. The NDP is the only party rallying to keep Walmart-Style-Daycare centres out,

"These companies' bottom line is profit, not our kids, not our parents nor families,"

Of the two, the Liberal plan sounds more like a real plan. However, enter party #3, the NDP. I think this is where we should look for a child-care plan designed to help Canadians, rather than just "saying something to get elected".... Martin's been talking for how many years ???

[err]

OMG.  Child care will become a bureaucratic, waiting list wasteland like our health system - subject to endless political debate. Except, if this happens, the future of the country will be at stake.  People would cease to have children except for the rich who could afford private child care at home...

Anything has to be better than the existing.... So I'll entertain the notion that the Liberal plan is to build a childcare system. To use a CPC argument, the pitiful $25/week handout will probably buy beer for welfare mothers, because it won't even pay for one day at a real day-care centre....

If this is what Paul Martin believes, that the State should take complete control of child rearing from birth, without regard to the opinions of parents except through day care committees and waiting lists, then this election will be decisive.

Should we discount the opinions of those "welfare bums" who just want to buy beer with the handout ???? Because maybe they'd like your suggestion August the most... Or maybe we should only take the opinions of real serious Canadians who vote CPC (for CorPorate Canada).... Or maybe we should listen to people who want a regulated approved day-care centre for their children....

Your suggestion that the Liberal plan is made "without regard to the opinions of parents" does not in any way qualify your argument.... which parents did you mean ???? Where on earth, other than a CPC convention, would you get your opinion from.... I'm all ears....

[Montgomery Burns]

Ken Dryden--who appears to have taken too many hockey pucks in the head--claims that 1 in 7 mothers (14%) with pre-school children are in the workforce.

Ergo, 86% of mothers are exempt.

The CP needs to use stronger terms to describe the Liberal child daycare plan. "Communes" sounds about right--or "The Little Socialist Thought Control Camp". Germany has implemented this system of pre-school indoctrination for their young children and their school books deride the USA. There is no doubt in my mind that the socialist Liberal Party will do the same thing. Their track record is proof.

Harper needs to stand up and say: "Canadians are hardworking and smart, and don't need govt to run their lives for them".

Martin's plan is outright socialism, if not communism.

Build, buy, or lease office buildings from loyal liberals.

Demand all provinces agree.

Discredit anyone who disagrees as "American".

All child care workers must be govt certified/accredited.

Force bloated greedy unionization on workers.

Ban all non-govt certified/accredited babysitters.

Hiring your sister or mother-in-law to babysit will be against the law.

Grandma/Grandpa can't take care of their grandchildren and get some compensation for it.

Striking child care workers will become all to common--every 2 or 3 years.

Basically it comes down to govt warehousing/indoctrination of children versus parental choice.

This is utter madness. :angry:

I hope the hell that Canadians aren't this stupid.

[Argus]

My wife works at a semi-private daycare. It costs over $30 a day per child without any Govt assistance.  That can get very expensive. I don't see how $25 a week fixes  that problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXACTLY !!!!! For those parents who need daycare because they both have to work to make ends meet, the CPC will give nearly 20% of what is needed. So this way, NOBODY GETS GOOD CHILDCARE unless they could afford the other 80%.

To praphrase a now mouldering but once allegedly great Canadian political leader: Why should I look after your kids?

This is help, not taking over the job. It is, as someone described it, a "toddler bonus" on top of the baby bonus and other government tax breaks parents get. Put it all together and I think it's a fairly significant help to parents. But you are right, this does not completely eliminate the need of parents to look after their kids.

Of the two, the Liberal plan sounds more like a real plan.

Pardon me while I snicker derisively. The Liberals have been trumpeting a national child care/day care program for the last five or six elections. So far nothing. If they wanted to bring one in we'd have had one by now. We had massive surpluses most of Martin's years as Finance Minister. But he chose to hide the money rather than bring in a national day care program. Once again he's making mouth noises about it during an election, but give him a majority and watch it drop to the back burner (or rather, to the counter behind the stove, available to be trumpeted next election once again). How many elections are they going to trot that one out? It's like health care. Every election they're the great and noble protectors of our "sacred trust" then they toss the flags they wrap themselves in in the closet until the following election.

However, enter party #3, the NDP.  I think this is where we should look for a child-care plan designed to help Canadians, rather than just "saying something to get elected".... Martin's been talking for how many years ???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The NDP plan will no-doubt be more generous as it will be unencumbered with any consideration as to cost or economic value.

[shoop]

Err, you conveniently ignore the $1.25 Billion in employer tax credits to credit daycare spaces that is part of the plan.

Putting money in the hands of those who manage it best, i.e. not the government, will provide us to the best solution to the problem.

Anything has to be better than the existing.... So I'll entertain the notion that the Liberal plan is to build a childcare system.  To use a CPC argument, the pitiful $25/week handout will probably buy beer for welfare mothers, because it won't even pay for one day at a real day-care centre....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[CoachCartman]

Once again, Rural Canada seems to be left out of the arguements, both here and by the media. The Liberal plan does nothing for those parents living in "Small Town"

There are no government day care facilities in small town, nor will there be, under any of the proposals.

Yes, we do work out here. Some of us families even have both parents in the work force. A 100.00 bucks a month does help out, here. It may not go to a government program but it will help out. Parents worth anything, check things out before they drop off their kid(s). I, for one, do not need the Feds, telling me what to do, and where to put my kids.

What about stay at home parents? Just leave them to their own means? Reading the Liberal propaganda, it sounds like the government knows how to look after your own children better then you do. $1200 bucks goes along way in buying learning supplies for a pre schooler.....

[normanchateau]

The CP needs to use stronger terms to describe the Liberal child daycare plan.

Harper needs to stand up and say: "Canadians are hardworking and smart, and don't need govt to run their lives for them".

Martin's plan is outright socialism, if not communism. 

Almost as communist as having Canada's physicians on government payrolls, another socialist plot hatched by commie Tommy Douglas who cleverly disguised himself as a Baptist preacher to fool gullible Canadians.

But it's no surprise that Martin of all people would propose this. What better way for a lurking-under-the bed communist to pull the wool over gullible Canadians than to disguise himself even more cleverly as a multimillionaire, wealthy capitalist shipping magnate.

And it's no surprise that even Stephen Harper is now promising to throw away at least ten billion dollars of Canadian taxpayers' hard-earned money for childcare. Another left wing plot, this one perpetrated by someone cleverly disguised as an inept politician.

[shoop]

Normie your sarcasm, if one could call it that, is sad and doesn't further the debate. Please try and say *something* that fosters some element of the debate. Harper has never called Martin a communist. Are you trying to smear him with another baseless allegation?

Almost as communist as having Canada's physicians on government payrolls, another socialist plot hatched by commie Tommy Douglas who cleverly disguised himself as a Baptist preacher to fool gullible Canadians.

But it's no surprise that Martin of all people would propose this.  What better way for a lurking-under-the bed communist to pull the wool over gullible Canadians than to disguise himself even more cleverly as a multimillionaire, wealthy capitalist shipping magnate.

And it's no surprise that  even Stephen Harper is now promising to throw away at least ten billion dollars of Canadian taxpayers' hard-earned money for childcare.  Another left wing plot, this one perpetrated by someone cleverly disguised as an inept politician.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[cybercoma]

Unless anyone disagrees that the parents obviously know what's best for their child (moreso than Paul Martin himself) rather than the government, the CPC's plan for childcare is the best. It puts money in the hands of the parents, so they may decide where their children go and it puts money in the hands of childcare facilities, instead of some bloated bureaucracy that's more concerned about government handouts than caring for children.

[CoachCartman]

And it's no surprise that even Stephen Harper is now promising to throw away at least ten billion dollars of Canadian taxpayers' hard-earned money for childcare. Another left wing plot, this one perpetrated by someone cleverly disguised as an inept politician.

So where does that leave Martin? He's spending 11 billion dollars on 14% of the mothers in Canada.........Harper is spending 10 billion on 100% of mothers

[shoop]

That is why the Liberals are currently so sad. They act like they are in favour of people deciding their own futures when governing - unless they need the help of the NDs to stay alive.

I believe parents are the ones best positioned to make the right choices for their chidren's daycare.

Unless anyone disagrees that the parents obviously know what's best for their child (moreso than Paul Martin himself) rather than the government, the CPC's plan for childcare is the best.  It puts money in the hands of the parents, so they may decide where their children go and it puts  money in the hands of childcare facilities, instead of some bloated bureaucracy that's more concerned about government handouts than caring for children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[justcrowing]

http://w3t.org/?u=ets

By Sheila Copps

OTTAWA -- As a one-time single mom who always worked outside the home, I have had personal experience with the trials and tribulations of Canada's patchwork child care system.

Unlike most parents, I was wealthy enough to pay the full cost of care for my daughter, Danelle. As a government employee, I was also one of the lucky minority of parents whose children have access to workplace daycare.

The beauty of the child care plan announced this week by Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is that it empowers parents to make choices that fit their needs. The $100 per month per preschool-age child may be just what a family needs to survive on a single-earner salary (with the other parent staying home to provide care). As for wealthier parents like myself, this additional income would be balanced at tax time.

Prime Minister Paul Martin characterized the Tory plan as "maybe a kind of baby bonus." His own plan -- for which he announced billions in additional funding yesterday, would transfer $11 billion by 2015 to provincial governments for child care. The problem, in my view, is that there are no national standards. The last agreement actually saw some provinces rake in millions in cash without creating a single new daycare space. The Liberal plan is a cash cow for governments while families are cash poor.

Just ask a pregnant woman whether she would prefer a truly national program or 13 different provincial and territorial programs? What if she has to move to a new province in the middle of her pregnancy? Why do politicians assume that writing a cheque to another level of government is a substitute for thoughtful policy that works for people?

In child care, the Martin government has studiously avoided national standards, fearing a backlash from provinces that want money with no strings attached.

Harper has wisely found a way to go over the heads of the provinces directly to the people. By doing so, he is reinforcing his confidence in Canadians' capacity to choose.

Those who choose to stay home to care for their kids, or to make family or other arrangements, should not be penalized. Like father, government does not always know best.

[Guest eureka]

Hardly nothing, Argus. The Liberal government has been negotaiting agreements with provinces since before there was any suggestion of an election. Agreements with two provinces have already been signed.

The "parents know best" argument is rather pathetic and no more than a support for acynical vote buying scheme. It is daycare that is being talked about: facilities for those who need it and particularly to be aimed at those who cannot afford it.

It is not a gift to parents who happen to have children that will do anything. This Conservative scheme is merely saying that we wull collect money and give some of it back to you: not to those who need it, though.

[shoop]

What are you saying? How is it 'pathetic' to let parents make the right choice for them? Additional funds in the hands of parents makes fewer parents 'who cannot afford it. Incentives for companies to provide daycare spaces means more parents who can 'afford it'.

What do you mean 'children that will do anything'?

'Scheme' nice attempt at pushing the hot buttons!

They aren't collecting any more money. In fact they will be collecting less, thus lowering overhead. Or are you unfamiliar with how tax credits work?

The "parents know best" argument is rather pathetic and no more than a support for acynical  vote buying scheme. It is daycare that is being talked about: facilities for those who need it and particularly to be aimed at those who cannot afford it.

It is not a gift to parents who happen to have children that will do anything. This Conservative scheme is merely saying that we wull collect money and give some of it back to you: not to those who need it, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Leafless]

eureka

You wrote- " The 'parents knows best plan' argument is rather pathetic and no more than a support for a cynical vote buting scheme."

Oh, institutionalizing your children is NORMAL with nothing to nourish your child intelliect and imagination and learning capabilities than another lot of babbling children.

Please give me a break!

Most parents know the best child rearing is accomplished at home where the child receives full support of the parents.

[normanchateau]

Most parents know the best child rearing is accomplished at home where the child receives full support of the parents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, the parents can quit work and stay home all day with the child. Great idea.

[sharkman]

What's so incomplete about the Liberal plan is only couples that decide to both stay working will get any benefit. Couples that want to have a parent actually with the child during the crucial formative years get nothing.

As mentioned, Dryden's own numbers mean that 86% of mothers get left out, and families in rural areas would get nothing from the Liberals. And yet it costs so much. I saw an interview in which Dryden sniffed at the CPC plan, saying it amounts to $25 bucks a week. Can you imagine Liberals saying it's a small amount if it was a Tory benefit cut of $25 a week. They'd be sputtering,"That amounts to $1200 bucks a year per child that no family can afford to lose!" But since it's payment, they claim it's small.

Edited December 7, 2005 by sharkman

[justcrowing]

eureka

You wrote- " The 'parents knows best plan' argument is rather pathetic and no more than a support for a cynical vote buting scheme."

Oh, institutionalizing your children is NORMAL with nothing to nourish your child intelliect and imagination and learning capabilities than another lot of babbling children.

Please give me a break!

Most parents know the best child rearing is accomplished at home where the child receives full support of the parents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How true that kids benefit most from child rearing accomplished at home. Our kids had that benefit and there were no child tax credits then either. Our children did not want their mom away - they loved to come home and discuss a good or bad day; have cookies & muffins hot on a plate for them; their friends over; parents interacting with them at a park as family/friends outings. They did not feel they had less but said that less meant they had more to look forward towards.

The Liberal government, the way I see it, will eventually have custody of the children and parents will only be sperm givers and incubators. They discourage people from raising their children in a home environment as have the feminists who made the stay at home moms feel inadequate and ashamed. It's a scary prospect but if one analyzes the way things are heading, don't be surprised if a separating couple will no longer have to deal with custody issues, government will step in & take full custody and parents will have visitation privileges. Sound far-fetched, well maybe for right now but down the road I can see it happening so be careful what you vote for.

[shoop]

Agreed, not a possibility for everybody. But why should parents be financially penalized for staying home with their kids. So sorry, the Liberals want to financially punish families that choose to have a parent stay home with the children. Great work Paul!

Sure, the parents can quit work and stay home all day with the child.  Great idea. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Argus]

Hardly nothing, Argus. The Liberal government has been negotaiting agreements with provinces since before there was any suggestion of an election. Agreements with two provinces have already been signed.

The Liberals have been promising a national child care program for at least 5 elections now. And for at least the last ten years Paul Martin has spent every budget night frantically trying to hide the billions and billions of surplus dollars, doing everything from stuffing it into hidden piggy banks (called foundation trusts) to playing accounting games which would have gotten him arrested were he to do it with a private sector corporation. He's been doing all this so that no one would make him spend it on things like a national daycare program.

Daycare, like their commitment to public health care, is one of those things the Liberal leadership has no use for except at election time. Universally wealthy, they simply trot it out to the masses, dangle it in front of their faces for votes, then toss it into the back of the old election gimmick closet for use once again next time around.

There will be no national daycare program under Martin unless he has a shaky minority and needs to buy votes and get the NDP's cooperation. If he get a majority the daycare program goes into the election gimmick closet once again.

The "parents know best" argument is rather pathetic and no more than a support for acynical  vote buying scheme.

Oh please, as if the Liberals are using daycare as anything other than an attempt to buy votes. The fact is that 46% of children are cared for by other than daycare. Martin's plan does absolutely zilch for them.