Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said: Can't fault you. It's worked so far. oh it is starting to break down but the danger is not China & Russia advancing on a hapless & helpless American patsy rather America is starting to leave Russia & China behind the American technological advantage is becoming so advanced America is reaching the point where it could launch a preemptive first strike against Russia and China and neither Russia nor China would see it coming it's not so much that America is likely to launch such an attack but as we become ever more capable of doing so Russia & China become ever more paranoid, and prone to taking ever greater risks to try to deter America and this again, is where we start to approach nuclear war by misapprehension, miscalculation and/or mistake Edited February 5 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, Infidel Dog said: The one from Forbes incorrectly claiming it would be difficult to take one these things out: just a note on this there are two types of high altitude balloons the super pressure type and the zero pressure type the zero pressure type are the ones which can't be easily shot down : no pressure, so they don't pop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 I've been doing a little reading around myself, Dougie. It's starting to look to me like the upper limits of a balloon will hit the lower limits of ionosphere and the theory seems to be a lower level blast would create EMP damage but over a smaller limited area. What do you think? Possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 22 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: I've been doing a little reading around myself, Dougie. It's starting to look to me like the upper limits of a balloon will hit the lower limits of ionosphere and the theory seems to be a lower level blast would create EMP damage but over a smaller limited area. What do you think? Possible? well a large hydrogen bomb will generate a localized EMP but the EMP doomsday scenario is an EMP which takes out the whole continent a localized EMP is not going to be more destructive than the large hydrogen bomb so I don't see the military utility of the EMP in that case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 Terrorists? Iran supported maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said: Terrorists? Iran supported maybe. again, the hydrogen bomb is so much more destructive than the localized EMP, the EMP is rendered moot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Terrorists? Iran supported maybe. plus, if you are a terrorist with a hydrogen bomb, you would detonate at ground level to maximize fallout the closer the detonation is to the ground, the more radioactive material is spread downrange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) I don't know. I get the impression there's not a lot of research you can access on low altitude explosions. At present it seems more like who knows what's possible with what. But some sort of EMP effect does seem possible at about 25 miles up which would be the limit of balloons. This one is fun: Chinese Spy Balloons: Potential Purposes for the High Altitude Invasion It isn't really about EMPs. It's more on stuff DARPA is working on that might explain why the Chinese would want spy balloons. Edited February 5 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 OK so I think now would be a good time to reflect and postulate. Biden gets elected...sort of. The USA sticks its tail between its legs and surrenders to the Taliban. Russia invades Ukraine. NATO is powerless to stop the Ukraine war. BRICS alliance is formed. China flies a giant balloon across America. Biden let's the balloon traverse the bulk of the USA. What the hell is happening? I smell rotten fish...somewhere in this...arrangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: Chinese Spy Balloons: Potential Purposes for the High Altitude Invasion It isn't really about EMPs. It's more on stuff DARPA is working on that might explain why the Chinese would want spy balloons. seems like trying fit the conspiracy theory to the event I start with the premise of what is the benefit to the Chinese ? the Chinese method of spying by infiltration is highly effective what more could they learn with a balloon ? balloon surveillance is a tactic that doesn't seem to have much strategic relevance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 9 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: I don't know. I get the impression there's not a lot of research you can access on low altitude explosions. At present it seems more like who knows what's possible with what. But some sort of EMP effect does seem possible at about 25 miles up which would be the limit of balloons. thing is, China is like a parasite feeding off of America China doesn't create anything, it relies on America to create, then China attaches itself to that so it does not benefit China to launch a surprise attack to destroy America for if the China parasite kills the host, then China dies too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 the PLA is not actually built to go on the offensive against America the PLA is not building capacity to attack America itself they actually don't have many ICBM's/SLBMs the bulk of the Chinese firepower is much shorter ranged so I don't think Beijing has a plan to launch a first strike rather, the Chinese live in fear of an American first strike so they are in a defensive crouch, Anti Access Area Denial in the Western Pacific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 thus I would submit that Russia remains the primary threat and it has nothing to do with ideology it just comes down to Russia possessing the strategic weapons built by the Soviets Russia has the warheads Russia has the missiles Russia has the submarines only the Russians have the capabilities to challenge America on the high seas this is not a balloon war, this is a submarine war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: OK so I think now would be a good time to reflect and postulate. Biden gets elected...sort of. The USA sticks its tail between its legs and surrenders to the Taliban. Russia invades Ukraine. NATO is powerless to stop the Ukraine war. BRICS alliance is formed. China flies a giant balloon across America. Biden let's the balloon traverse the bulk of the USA. What the hell is happening? I smell rotten fish...somewhere in this...arrangement? this is much more the strategic threat that China presents China able to deploy trillions of US dollars in order to bribe the elites in the West to betray their own countries but again, this is the Communist parasite feeding off the American host which means there is no benefit to China escalating to a direct military confrontation a direct military confrontation would in fact wreck the whole Chinese plan to win by slow & steady infiltration the Chinese plan is not to destroy America, but rather for America to subjugate itself willingly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: there is an American intelligence interest in letting the balloon fly its course one, you get to see what the Chinese might be trying to spy on two, you get to look at the sensor package and determine what sensors they might be using furthermore, the gondola went down in only 47 feet of water off Myrtle Beach so now the SEALs can go down and recover it so if it is a spy balloon, all the Chinese have done is handed it over to America to study it Edited February 5 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: this is much more the strategic threat that China presents China able to deploy trillions of US dollars in order to bribe the elites in the West to betray their own countries but again, this is the Communist parasite feeding off the American host which means there is no benefit to China escalating to a direct military confrontation a direct military confrontation would in fact wreck the whole Chinese plan to win by slow & steady infiltration the Chinese plan is not to destroy America, but rather for America to subjugate itself willingly Which this administration is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 20 hours ago, Dougie93 said: I am expert on thermonuclear weapons but I've never heard anything about them being delivered by a balloon you posted "Today there's the danger EMP attacks. Apparently high hovering Balloons would be ideal for that." that makes no sense to me, knowing what I do about EMP first of all, EMP is not useful against military targets military electronics are hardened against EMP only civilian infrastructure is vulnerable to EMP the threat of an EMP attack ; would be a continent wide long term blackout by detonation of a nuke in the Ionosphere mind you, it's not hard to protect civilian electronics from EMP too either by a Faraday Bag or even just wrapping them in tinfoil will prevent them from being fried by EMP Presumably a nuclear warhead large enough would be heavy? Heavier than a few solar panels and cameras as seen on this balloon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 20 hours ago, Dougie93 said: a bioweapon attack needs to be plausibly deniable like deliberately releasing a bioweapon from a lab and then claiming it was an accident, for example Even that would backfire on you as you would have to close down your own economy as the disease spread amongst your population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: Presumably a nuclear warhead large enough would be heavy? Heavier than a few solar panels and cameras as seen on this balloon. a small warhead would still produce a localized EMP a small warhead would still produce a wide area EMP if it was detonated 400 kilometres up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: Even that would backfire on you as you would have to close down your own economy as the disease spread amongst your population. not if you wanted to close down your economy in order to restore the control of totalitarian Marxism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) the appearance of the gondola and the operating altitude of 60-70 thousand feet makes this look like a Geostationary Balloon Satellite ( GBS ) but those are stationary, with a motor to keep them in one spot so one military explanation is that this is a Chinese GBS which simply had an engine failure and then blew downrange the GBS makes total sense for the PLA because those would be deployed defensively over the China Seas so perhaps they are testing them to support the PLA Navy if one blows off course, they just say, don't be alarmed, don't shoot it down, just a weather balloon Edited February 5 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the appearance of the gondola and the operating altitude of 60-70 thousand feet makes this look like a Geostationary Balloon Satellite ( GBS ) but those are stationary, with a motor to keep them in one spot so one military explanation is that this is a Chinese military GBS which simply had an engine failure and then blew downrange the GBS makes total sense for the PLA because those would be deployed defensively over the China Seas Admiral Mullen seems to think it had propellers. Quote Admiral Mike Mullen, former chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on Sunday he thought the Chinese military might have launched the balloon intentionally to disrupt Mr Blinken's trip to China. His visit would have been the first such high level US-China meeting there in years. Adm Mullen rejected China's suggestion it might have blown off course, saying it was manoeuvrable because "it has propellers on it". "This was not an accident. This was deliberate. It was intelligence," he added. Makes sense that it had some sort of malfunction. Although you would think they had someway of bringing it down if it did to stop it getting into the wrong hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said: Admiral Mullen seems to think it had propellers. Makes sense that it had some sort of malfunction. Although you would think they had someway of bringing it down if it did to stop it getting into the wrong hands. perhaps it was a complete systems failure everything went dead, including the comms link for deploying the recovery parachute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 don't forget that the bleeding edge of the arms race right now is Hypersonic weapons Geostationary Balloon Satellites have been proposed by the Pentagon for countering Hypersonics a network of GBS to detect the incoming Hypersonic Glide Vehicles ( HGV ) after they reenter the atmosphere so more for early warning surveillance than reconnaissance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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