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Thousands In Canada Being Euthanized Who Are Not Terminally Sick


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On 12/29/2022 at 9:26 AM, blackbird said:

No it is not.  Ask any doctor, lawyer, or and professional person who knows anything about it.

Assisted suicide is actively killing someone who otherwise would not die.

If I consult a lawyer, they will tell me that assisted suicide is legal as well as “do not resuscitate”.   Why would you consult a lawyer and listen to them for one thing, but not for another?

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6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Reformation was a return to Biblical Christianity and that brought with it the higher principles of respect for human rights and things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of belief in the western world, particularly in northern Europe where the main Reformation took place. 

So the change in the church just happened to coincide with the time and place where people were demanding these rights and not putting up with a church that was in conflict with these rights?  Hmmm….   I’m thinking the church changed to suit the times, not leading the change, but as a follower.  
 

Just like the churches today that are slowly allowing gay marriages to take place within their holy places….   these churches didn’t lead that change, but they are following society’s increasing freedom.  

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50 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Just like the churches today that are slowly allowing gay marriages to take place within their holy places….   these churches didn’t lead that change, but they are following society’s increasing freedom.  

God does not change and his written revelation the King James Bible does not change to suit the times.

Some major churches in the last number of decades abandoned the Bible in order to appease the masses of liberals and left. That is all that happened. You are correct in saying some churches allow gay marriage but you need to understand these are not real churches any more if they ever were.  Much of the Bible has little or no meaning to them.

There are still some smaller churches or independent churches who believe the Bible and stay with it, but they are in the minority.  Truth is not determined by numbers.  Defenders of truth were always in the minority.  

"“ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: ” King James Version (KJV)

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1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

Was it permissible to kill gay people at some point, as it is written in the bible to do?

I may have already answered that a number of times.  Are you being disingenuous?

quote

After the June 2016 terrorist attack by an Islamic extremist against a gay night club in Orlando, Florida, some have claimed that Christians are just as guilty as the terrorist because, after all, the Bible pronounces the death penalty against homosexuals. It is true that in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is crucial to understand that Jesus fulfilled the Law (Matthew 5:17–18). Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the Law. Ephesians 2:15 says that Jesus set aside the Law with its commands and regulations. Galatians 3:25 says, now that faith has come, we are no longer under the guardianship of the Law. The civil and ceremonial aspects of the Old Testament Law were for an earlier time. The Law’s purpose was completed with the perfect and complete sacrifice of Jesus Christ. So, no, the Bible does not command that homosexuals should be put to death in this day and age.

Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times. There’s a reason why the nightclub attacker was not Jewish or Christian. Jews and Christians understand the intent and limits of the Old Covenant Law. By contrast, the Koran does not qualify its command to kill homosexuals, and many Muslims see that command as enforceable today.    unquote

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

When are you going to believe the gospel, repent, and believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as your Savior for the forgiveness of your sins?   Let God be your guide through the King James Bible.  I couldn't think of a bigger waste of time than spending life fighting against God.  God has something better for you.

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8 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

I didn’t ask about this day and age.  
 

I asked:   was it permissible by God, at any point in time in the past, to kill gay people?  

You demonstrate you are being deceptive.  Why would you single something out of the Old Testament which does not give a complete picture and would give an incorrect belief about the Bible and Christianity.  You might fool some people, but you are not fooling me on this one.

I already explained that was only directed to Israel at that period in history and only by authorities in a judicial process.  There was no vigilante permitted.  You obviously ignored the detailed explanation I posted and are continuing to try to deceive.  The Bible does not teach what you are insinuating.

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5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You demonstrate you are being deceptive.  Why would you single something out of the Old Testament which does not give a complete picture and would give an incorrect belief about the Bible and Christianity.  You might fool some people, but you are not fooling me on this one.

I know why you might see trickery in it and want to avoid answering it.  It’s a tough question for someone who claims God never changes.   In fact, it completely destroys the claim that God does not change.  
 

At some point in time, God endorsed killing gay people.  It’s right there in the bible.  In this day and age, as your copy/paste said, God does not command gays be put to death.  Even this answer implies that, at some point, God did command gays be put to death.  
 

You said “God does not change”.  
 

The fact that it was permissible at one time, but not now, is evidence that God does indeed change.  

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"A related issue is that of assisted suicide. Essentially, a person seeking assisted suicide is seeking to euthanize himself, with the aid of another person to ensure that death is quick and painless. The person assisting the suicide facilitates death by making preparations and furnishing the needed equipment; but the person seeking death is the one who actually initiates the process. By taking a “hands-off” approach to the death itself, the facilitator seeks to avoid charges of murder. Proponents of assisted suicide try for a positive spin by using terms like “death with dignity.” But “death with dignity” is still death, “assisted suicide” is still suicide, and suicide is wrong.

We live in what is sometimes described as a “culture of death.” Abortion on demand has been practiced for decades. Now some are seriously proposing infanticide. And euthanasia is promoted as a viable means of solving various social and financial problems. This focus on death as an answer to the world’s problems is a total reversal of the biblical model. Death is an enemy (1 Corinthians 15:26). Life is a sacred gift from God (Genesis 2:7). When given the choice between life and death, God told Israel to “choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19). Euthanasia spurns the gift and embraces the curse.

The overriding truth that God is sovereign drives us to the conclusion that euthanasia and assisted suicide are wrong. We know that physical death is inevitable for us mortals (Psalm 89:48; Hebrews 9:27). However, God alone is sovereign over when and how a person’s death occurs. Job testifies in Job 30:23, “I know you will bring me down to death, to the place appointed for all the living.” Ecclesiastes 8:8 declares, “No man has power over the wind to contain it; so no one has power over the day of his death.” God has the final say over death (see 1 Corinthians 15:26, 54–56; Hebrews 2:9, 14–15; Revelation 21:4). Euthanasia and assisted suicide are man’s attempts to usurp that authority from God.

Death is a natural occurrence. Sometimes God allows a person to suffer for a long time before death occurs; other times, a person’s suffering is cut short. No one enjoys suffering, but that does not make it right to determine that a person should die. Often, God’s purposes are made known through suffering. “When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other” (Ecclesiastes 7:14). Romans 5:3 teaches that tribulations bring about perseverance. God cares about those who cry out for death and wish to end their suffering. God gives purpose in life even to the end. Only God knows what is best, and His timing, even in the matter of one’s death, is perfect.

We should never seek to prematurely end a life, but neither must we go to extraordinary means to preserve a life. To actively hasten death is wrong; to passively withhold treatment can also be wrong; but to allow death to occur naturally in a terminally ill person is not necessarily wrong. Anyone facing this issue should pray to God for wisdom (James 1:5). And we should all remember the words of former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, who warned that the practice of medicine “cannot be both our healer and our killer” (from KOOP, The Memoirs of America’s Family Doctor by C. Everett Koop, M.D., Random House, 1991)."      unquote

What does the Bible say about euthanasia / assisted suicide? | GotQuestions.org

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5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

but to allow death to occur naturally

If this was actually a concern, we wouldn’t take man-made medications like vaccines or cancer fighting chemotherapy because those things are not natural in any way.  
 

We should just allow cancer to kill us…. naturally….  like God intended.  

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Just now, TreeBeard said:

I know why you might see trickery in it.  It’s a tough question for someone who claims God never changes.   In fact, it’s a defeated for the claim that God does not change.  
 

At some point in time, God endorsed killing gay people.  It’s right there in the bible.  In this day and age, as your copy/paste said, God does not command gays be put to death.  Even this answer implies that, at some point, God did command gays be put to death.  
 

You said “God does not change”.  
 

The fact that it was permissible at one time, but not now, is evidence that God does indeed change.  

God does not change in certain central matters perhaps would be more accurate.  God does different things in different times in history would be more accurate.  It might not be a completely clear statement to say God does not change.  That all depends what one is talking about.  God's commandments such as thou shalt not kill does not change.  God's command to follow him and believe in him and his word does not change.  We could probably find many things where God does not change.  But certain ways God dealt with people down through history have changed.  That is true.  Certain commandments and directives that were given to Israel were only meant for them, such as the one you mentioned, only applied to them at that time in history.  So perhaps saying God does not change was not the best way to explain that to you I admit.  Like many subjects or questions, we have to go into more detail and explanation to understand something properly. 

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

If this was actually a concern, we wouldn’t take man-made medications like vaccines or cancer fighting chemotherapy because those things are not natural in any way.  
 

We should just allow cancer to kill us…. naturally….  like God intended.  

There are many diseases in this fallen world that we cannot stop.  I think you will agree to that.

You incorrectly said "like God intended".  So let me ask you why you said "like God intended".   How do you know that?  

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Just now, blackbird said:

There are many diseases in this fallen world that we cannot stop.  I think you will agree to that.

You incorrectly said "like God intended".  So let me ask you why you said "like God intended".   How do you know that?  

Well, if He  intended us to make medicines to keep us alive beyond what is natural, then why couldn’t he have intended us to make ways for us to ease suffering and to pass into His arms earlier than is natural?  
 

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

Do you believe that God would allow killing someone in a just war, for instance?  Like the Canadian troops in Afghanistan, for example.  Did God allow them to kill Afghanis during the war?

  In a just war, people have a right to self-defense.  As a result of the attack on 9-11, and the fact that Afghanistan Taliban were harbouring the 9-11 attackers who were training there, yes I think the west going into Afghanistan was justified.  They had attacked the U.S. in 9-11 and killed around 3,000 people in New York.  This was a response to that and part of the war on terrorism. That is what it was all about.

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7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

  In a just war, people have a right to self-defense.  As a result of the attack on 9-11, and the fact that Afghanistan Taliban were harbouring the 9-11 attackers who were training there, yes I think the west going into Afghanistan was justified.  They had attacked the U.S. in 9-11 and killed around 3,000 people in New York.  This was a response to that and part of the war on terrorism. That is what it was all about.

So God even changes on His Commandment “thou shalt not kill”.  

You had to backtrack on “God does not change” to God doesn’t change the big things   But even the big things, God changes all the time!

A Canadian can’t go over to Afghanistan right now and shoot Afghanis.  That would break the Commandment and be a grave sin. But, if Canada declares that the Afghanis should be shot, then God approves.  
 

I find it quite an odd coincidence that God always sides with what the believer determines is correct. In this case, God will always be on the Canadian side, if Canadians determine that killing Afghanis is just.  God just nods His head…

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8 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Well, if He  intended us to make medicines to keep us alive beyond what is natural, then why couldn’t he have intended us to make ways for us to ease suffering and to pass into His arms earlier than is natural?  
 

The question of why allows suffering in this world is one of the most asked questions.  I don't have all the answers to that because it is a difficult subject.  But there are many articles that go into that and here is one:

quote

Q:

Why does God allow suffering in the world?

A:

There are no easy answers to the question of the purpose of suffering and evil. The tendency is to blame God for these conditions, but He did not create them. They came as a result of man’s disobedience to God, beginning back in the Garden of Eden; see Genesis 3:16-19.

Often suffering and adversity are brought about by disregard of God’s will or by the direct efforts of Satan or by natural disasters in a physical world which is also affected by man’s sin and the resulting judgment. God, however, has offered the most effective solution possible by giving His Son to die for all.

Jesus Christ paid the ultimate price when He suffered and died on the cross, having taken upon Himself the sin of the world and all of its horrible consequences. When Jesus returns in power and glory, there will be a new world completely free from sin with its sorrow and suffering (Revelation, chapters 21 and 22).

We can be sure that God in His divine purpose desires to bring about in us the greatest good and to allow suffering to be a means of discipline to cultivate love, patience, grace, and faith in our lives. God never asks us to understand; we need only trust Him in the same way that we expect our earthly children to trust our love.

Peace comes when we realize we are able to see only a few threads in the great tapestry of life and of God’s plan. Then we can affirm with great joy and assurance that “in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).

The way we react to suffering will determine whether life’s most tragic experiences bring bitterness and despair or become sources of blessing. The greatest joy will come when, in the midst of adversity, we look up into God’s face and say, “I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation” (Habakkuk 3:18).

It is then that His promise will be most meaningful, “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze” (Isaiah 43:2).    unquote

Why does God allow suffering in the world? (billygraham.org)

 

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Just now, blackbird said:

The question of why allows suffering in this world is one of the most asked questions.  I don't have all the answers to that because it is a difficult subject.  But there are many articles that go into that and here is one:

quote

Q:

Why does God allow suffering in the world?

A:

There are no easy answers to the question of the purpose of suffering and evil. The tendency is to blame God for these conditions, but He did not create them. They came as a result of man’s disobedience to God, beginning back in the Garden of Eden; see Genesis 3:16-19.

Often suffering and adversity are brought about by disregard of God’s will or by the direct efforts of Satan or by natural disasters in a physical world which is also affected by man’s sin and the resulting judgment. God, however, has offered the most effective solution possible by giving His Son to die for all.

Jesus Christ paid the ultimate price when He suffered and died on the cross, having taken upon Himself the sin of the world and all of its horrible consequences. When Jesus returns in power and glory, there will be a new world completely free from sin with its sorrow and suffering (Revelation, chapters 21 and 22).

We can be sure that God in His divine purpose desires to bring about in us the greatest good and to allow suffering to be a means of discipline to cultivate love, patience, grace, and faith in our lives. God never asks us to understand; we need only trust Him in the same way that we expect our earthly children to trust our love.

Peace comes when we realize we are able to see only a few threads in the great tapestry of life and of God’s plan. Then we can affirm with great joy and assurance that “in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose” (Romans 8:28).

The way we react to suffering will determine whether life’s most tragic experiences bring bitterness and despair or become sources of blessing. The greatest joy will come when, in the midst of adversity, we look up into God’s face and say, “I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation” (Habakkuk 3:18).

It is then that His promise will be most meaningful, “When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. When you walk through the fire, you will not be burned; the flames will not set you ablaze” (Isaiah 43:2).    unquote

Why does God allow suffering in the world? (billygraham.org)

 

No, it has nothing to do with why He allows suffering.  The argument was that we should die a “natural” death.  But God approves of us living unnaturally long.  So, I put no stock into the argument about natural deaths.  It makes no sense that we should die a natural death when He allows us to live unnatural life.  

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3 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So God even changes on His Commandment “thou shalt not kill”.  

You had to backtrack on “God does not change” to God doesn’t change the big things   But even the big things, God changes all the time!

No, I said God does not change on certain things.  The commandment "thou shalt not kill" did not change.

There are exceptions to that commandment and always have been.  You know that.   Self defence as for example a police officer acting to protect his life or someone's else life.  In times of war to defend a nation.  Those exceptions always existed.

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2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, I said God does not change on certain things.  The commandment "thou shalt not kill" did not change.

There are exceptions to that commandment and always have been.  You know that.   Self defence as for example a police officer acting to protect his life or someone's else life.  In times of war to defend a nation.  Those exceptions always existed.

“It never changes, but….”

If it never changed, there wouldn’t be a “but”.  And the exceptions would be clearly laid out and not open to interpretation.  

 

There are exceptions depending on the circumstances and what you believe.  So, the Commandment changes.  But it only changes ever changes in your favour.  Never against.  
 

Odd. 

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

No, it has nothing to do with why He allows suffering.  The argument was that we should die a “natural” death.  But God approves of us living unnaturally long.  So, I put no stock into the argument about natural deaths.  It makes no sense that we should die a natural death when He allows us to live unnatural life.  

You obviously just answered instantly without even reading the article.  I don't think it is useful to waste time with back and forth comments when you don't listen and don't read any articles explaining my beliefs.  You simple want to argue.  I don't see any signs that you are seriously interested in knowing the answers to questions you raise.  

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11 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

No, it has nothing to do with why He allows suffering.  The argument was that we should die a “natural” death.  But God approves of us living unnaturally long.  So, I put no stock into the argument about natural deaths.  It makes no sense that we should die a natural death when He allows us to live unnatural life.  

God is the one in charge of life.  He created us and when we die is basically his business.  We don't have any right to actively end someone's life.  That is playing God.  Our bodies and soul, our being, belongs to God.  Nobody has any business playing God and actively ending life.

You need to accept the fact there is an omnipotent almighty God who you are responsible to and start reading the Bible, New Testament.  Stop thinking you are some kind of god because you are not. You are a created being made in the image of God.

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1 minute ago, blackbird said:

You obviously just answered instantly without even reading the article.  I don't think it is useful to waste time with back and forth comments when you don't listen and don't read any articles explaining my beliefs.  You simple want to argue.  I don't see any signs that you are seriously interested in knowing the answers to questions you raise.  

This would be a boring forum if all we ever did was agree on everything….  it would be more like “preaching to the converted”.

 

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

God is the one in charge of life.  He created us and when we die is basically his business.  We don't any right to actively end someone's life.  That is playing God.  Our bodies and soul, our being, belongs to God.  Nobody has an business playing God and actively ending life.

He’s not in charge though. People created medicines made of chemicals to keep us alive much longer than He intended.  Isn’t that “playing God” as well?

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1 minute ago, TreeBeard said:

This would be a boring forum if all we ever did was agree on everything….  it would be more like “preaching to the converted”.

 

He’s not in charge though. People created medicines made of chemicals to keep us alive much longer than He intended.  Isn’t that “playing God” as well?

No, of course not.  God gave mankind knowledge, science, medicine, and the ability to heal people.  He gave all these things to mankind.

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2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, of course not.  God gave mankind knowledge, science, medicine, and the ability to heal people.  He gave all these things to mankind.

He also gave us the same knowledge, science and medicine to help ease our suffering at the end of life.  There’s no difference there.  

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