Pennsylvania is the DUMBEST state in the union

[Rebound]

43 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. No.  I have thought that for a long time.
2. 3. See my post above "I'm not arguing that Republicans are tolerant"

Nobody can solve every problem. I don’t spend all day trying to cure racism.  That’s ok. But pretending that it doesn’t exist, and then energetically trying to defeat every effort to remedy it… people who do that are racists. And Trump has a very long history of racism. 

[Michael Hardner]

48 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Nobody can solve every problem. I don’t spend all day trying to cure racism.  That’s ok. But pretending that it doesn’t exist, and then energetically trying to defeat every effort to remedy it… people who do that are racists. And Trump has a very long history of racism. 

Nobody should pretend racism doesn't exist, I concur.  Trump may indeed be racist, sure seems that way.  

[robosmith]

12 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Too bad the only American history you know is what they indoctrinate you with on Progressive websites.

The Dixiecrat hoax was perpetrated on weak willed easy believers of what they'd like to believe by a Progressive journalist masquerading as a republican who infiltrated Nixon's band of toadies and tried to represent that as 'in the know' knowledge.

What I KNOW is that the Southern states have been shifting to solidly RED ever since Nixon's Southern strategy. ?

Edited November 17, 2022 by robosmith

[Infidel Dog]

Believe what you want to believe.

This sounds more supportable to me:

Quote

Nixon recognized the South was changing. It was becoming more industrialized, with many northerners moving to the Sunbelt. Nixon’s focus, Phillips writes, was on the non-racist, upwardly-mobile, largely urban voters of the Outer or Peripheral South. Nixon won these voters, and he lost the Deep South, which went to Democratic segregationist George Wallace.

And how many racist Dixiecrats did Nixon win for the GOP? Turns out, virtually none. Among the racist Dixiecrats, Strom Thurmond of South Carolina was the sole senator to defect to the Republicans — and he did this long before Nixon’s time. Only one Dixiecrat congressman, Albert Watson of South Carolina, switched to the GOP. The rest, more than 200 Dixiecrat senators, congressmen, governors and high elected officials, all stayed in the Democratic Party.

The progressive notion of a Dixiecrat switch is a myth. Yet it is myth that continues to be promoted, using dubious case examples. Though the late Sens. Jesse Helms of North Carolina and John Tower of Texas and former Mississippi Sen. Trent Lott all switched from the Democratic Party to the GOP, none of these men was a Dixiecrat.  

The South, as a whole, became Republican during the 1980s and 1990s. This had nothing to do with Nixon; it was because of Ronald Reagan and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s “Contract with America.” The conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity had far more to do with the South’s movement into the GOP camp than anything related to race.  

Yet the myth of Nixon’s Southern Strategy endures — not because it’s true, but because it conveniently serves to exculpate the crimes of the Democratic Party. Somehow the party that promoted slavery, segregation, Jim Crow and racial terrorism gets to wipe its slate clean by pretending that, with Nixon’s connivance, the Republicans stole all their racists. It’s time we recognize this excuse for what it is: one more Democratic big lie.

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy/

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Believe what you want to believe.

 

58 minutes ago, robosmith said:

What I KNOW is that the Southern states have shifting to solidly RED ever since Nixon's Southern strategy. ?

Have a look at the electoral map 1964 vs 1968.  It's a big change in that the South went to Nixon with the exception of LBJs home state and Wallace.

That said, the article Infidel Dog posted says zero about LBJ, doesn't even mention him...

The "strategy" - what it was - was to accept the Dixicrat votes that LBJ lost...

[Infidel Dog]

Didn't click expand and read, eh?

Not to worry. Here I'll help you out:

"

The South, as a whole, became Republican during the 1980s and 1990s. This had nothing to do with Nixon; it was because of Ronald Reagan and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s “Contract with America.” The conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity had far more to do with the South’s movement into the GOP camp than anything related to race.  

Yet the myth of Nixon’s Southern Strategy endures — not because it’s true, but because it conveniently serves to exculpate the crimes of the Democratic Party. Somehow the party that promoted slavery, segregation, Jim Crow and racial terrorism gets to wipe its slate clean by pretending that, with Nixon’s connivance, the Republicans stole all their racists. It’s time we recognize this excuse for what it is: one more Democratic big lie."

What LBJ is supposed to have to do with Dixiecrats, I don't know. You mean, because of the civil rights thing? That's why you think the south in general (the actual Dixiecrats in the majority stayed Democrat) went Republican? Civil Rights isn't something LBJ invented. The push was around before LBJ. Even after:

Quote

Nixon had an excellent record on civil rights. He supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. He was an avid champion of the desegregation of public schools. The progressive columnist Tom Wicker wrote in the New York Times, “There’s no doubt about it — the Nixon administration accomplished more in 1970 to desegregate Southern school systems than had been done in the 16 previous years or probably since. There’s no doubt either that it was Richard Nixon personally who conceived and led the administration’s desegregation effort.”

Upon his taking office in 1969, Nixon also put into effect America’s first affirmative action program. Dubbed the Philadelphia Plan, it imposed racial goals and timetables on the building trade unions, first in Philadelphia and then elsewhere. Now, would a man seeking to build an electoral base of Deep South white supremacists actually promote the first program to legally discriminate in favor of blacks? This is absurd.

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

Ever hear the one about LBJ where he was on a Plane talking to senators and he informed them the Democrats were going to go with the civil rights push saying, "We'll have these n##gers voting Democrat for a hundred years."

[Michael Hardner]

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Ever hear the one about LBJ where he was on a Plane talking to senators and he informed them the Democrats were going to go with the civil rights push saying, "We'll have these n##gers voting Democrat for a hundred years."

Yeah and if you knew a little more about LBJ you would know that he was able to lie and perform like almost no other politician.  There are recordings of phone calls where he talks to senators back to back to push for the Civil Rights Act and says contradictory things to get them to vote with him.

He understood people and their motivations and had an unbelievable capacity for strategy.  In order to pass the act, he betrayed lifelong friends and some felt he had befriended them years earlier to make this plan happen.

Truly a fascinating figure - he did many unkind and immoral things and nobody can say if he had a moral bone in his body or if he did it for his legacy.  

[Infidel Dog]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah and if you knew a little more about LBJ 

And if you weren't so busy trying to obfuscate from the issue you wouldn't bother trying to introduce him into the Dixiecrat myth.

[BeaverFever]

5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And if you weren't so busy trying to obfuscate from the issue you wouldn't bother trying to introduce him into the Dixiecrat myth.

Dixiecrats aren’t a myth they’re an inconvenient truth for both sides. Fun fact:

 

 LBJ was probably the most disgusting vulgarian to hold public office. His official recordings are full of him unapologetically belching into the phone, farting, etc.  If nature called in the middle of a staff meeting,his staff had to follow him into his bathroom and watch him take a dump and wipe because he would insist that the meeting continue uninterrupted.  As I understand it,  LBJ fancied himself to be an authentic Texas cowboy and the unabashed crudeness and vulgarity such as blowing his nose into his bare hand and flinging the snot, using the most vulgar language wherever possible etc was apparently all a part of the “genuine cowboy” lifestyle/upbringing.

[robosmith]

49 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Ever hear the one about LBJ where he was on a Plane talking to senators and he informed them the Democrats were going to go with the civil rights push saying, "We'll have these n##gers voting Democrat for a hundred years."

There's a REASON you posted NO EVIDENCE for ^this "ever hear the one..." bullshit.

What I heard he said was "We've LOST THE SOUTH for a generation." Yours makes no sense, cause blacks were not a majority in any Southern state and thus could no provide ANY EC votes.

Edited November 17, 2022 by robosmith

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And if you weren't so busy trying to obfuscate from the issue you wouldn't bother trying to introduce him into the Dixiecrat myth.

I don't think so.  I both dismissed the 'Southern Strategy' idea and your article...

Here's a place for you to start your long journey of learning about 1960s Democrats...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Russell_Jr.

[Infidel Dog]

14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Dixiecrats aren’t a myth they’re an inconvenient truth for both sides. Fun fact:

There were Dixecrats. What's a hoax is the BS tall tale that they all crossed over from Democrat to Republican.

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

 ... was apparently all a part of the “genuine cowboy” lifestyle/upbringing.

Well, he wasn't exactly a cowboy but he came from Hill Country in Texas for sure, and did more for Texas than arguably any politician before or since.  You can see when Nixon swept the south in the US 1968, Texas will still solid blue.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

  What's a hoax is the BS tall tale that they all crossed over from Democrat to Republican.

You are correct, that didn't happen.  They went to Wallace then Carter then slowly to the Republicans...

[Michael Hardner]

But so did Texas.  Anne Richards was beat soundly by a fake Texan named GW Bush Jr. and the Republicans never looked back.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Believe what you want to believe.

This sounds more supportable to me:

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/402754-the-myth-of-nixons-southern-strategy/

What you’re trying to ignore is that the VOTERS who supported Jim Crow, slavery segregation etc started voting Republican.
 

Southerners didn’t magically become non-racist overnight. And southern Republicans still admire the confederacy its flag and its leaders, downplay slavery, segregation Jim Crow etc claiming that it wasn’t so bad, denounce  all living civil rights leaders and anyone who dares mention that racism exists (unless it’s anti-white racism). 

Since you like quotes so much here’s one from 1981, from Southern Republican  Lee Atwater who worked in the Reagan administration:

 

You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni—er, ni—er, ni—er.” By 1968 you can’t say “ni—er”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Ni—er, ni—er.”

 

 

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

There were Dixecrats. What's a hoax is the BS tall tale that they all crossed over from Democrat to Republican.

 

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are correct, that didn't happen.  They went to Wallace then Carter then slowly to the Republicans...

They also stopped for a little Tea Party along the way.

[Infidel Dog]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think so.  I both dismissed the 'Southern Strategy' idea and your article...

Here's a place for you to start your long journey of learning about 1960s Democrats...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Russell_Jr.

Still not sure I get your point. You'd like me to learn there were Democrats that remained democrats and opposed civil rights? I thought I already knew that.

Were you expecting a thank you for your superior wisdom on what I knew? Expect a long wait.

[Infidel Dog]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are correct, that didn't happen.  They went to Wallace then Carter then slowly to the Republicans...

Show me that last part. Nice try at sneaking it in though. Actual Dixiecrats though. They were a specific thing.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

Show me that last part. Nice try at sneaking it in though. Actual Dixiecrats though. They were a specific thing.

I mean that the states voted Republican, that's all... Do you doubt that the south votes Republican ?  The southern Democrat tradition was dead after LBJ... only revived for a few popular southern governors...

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

 Were you expecting a thank you for your superior wisdom on what I knew? Expect a long wait.

I have already waited a long time.

[Infidel Dog]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I mean that the states voted Republican, that's all... Do you doubt that the south votes Republican ?  The southern Democrat tradition was dead after LBJ... only revived for a few popular southern governors...

Already dealt with:

"The South, as a whole, became Republican during the 1980s and 1990s. This had nothing to do with Nixon; it was because of Ronald Reagan and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s “Contract with America.” The conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity had far more to do with the South’s movement into the GOP camp than anything related to race.  

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I have already waited a long time.

2 1/2 years plus 11 days or so...

No thanks...

So many of you learn from me and spurn me...

I cry salty tears into my decaf...

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

 "The South, as a whole, became Republican during the 1980s and 1990s. This had nothing to do with Nixon; it was because of Ronald Reagan and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s “Contract with America.” The conservative appeal to patriotism, anti-communism, free markets, pro-life and Christianity had far more to do with the South’s movement into the GOP camp than anything related to race.  

Arguable but also not false.

The southern "tradition" was gone after LBJ.  They didn't universally vote for Republicans or Democrats after but there was less of a cultural lineage after LBJ's betrayal of Russell et al.

I was reading a book on early Canadian history, for example, and there was a line in there something like "He knew that Alberta would never elect anything but Liberals so his only choice was to...".

IF you want to break culture and start a new one, you need a major event like a GW Bush Jr. (Took Texas back to the Republicans for a generation) or Trump (Turned Georgia, Arizona purple) and so on...

Obama didn't do much, nor did Clinton... they were not icon-breakers just seat fillers in that regard.

The next Icon-Breaker is likely not ready to run in 2024 but then again it's hard to recognize big figures when they appear.  Trump was a talk-show joke when he showed up.  LBJ was the widower who got JFK's chair.  Lincoln, Churchill were underrated when it came time for them to stand up.  The President of Ukraine is/was a TV comic.

We are history's playthings...