Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) My last topic, if anything, demonstrated the incoherence and illogical nature of the pro choice position. Pro choicers struggled to even propose a single argument for their position and often dodged questions especially when cornered. This showcases a recurring theme of pro choicers inability to justify abortion. This thread is my attempt at actually getting to the pro choice arguments. If you have one, please post it. If you do not, do not respond to this thread. Edited October 19, 2022 by Iteration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 49 minutes ago, Iteration said: My last topic, if anything, demonstrated the incoherence and illogical nature of the pro choice position. Pro choicers struggled to even propose a single argument for their position and often dodged questions especially when cornered. This showcases a recurring theme of pro choicers inability to justify abortion. This thread is my attempt at actually getting to the pro choice arguments. If you have one, please post it. If you do not, do not respond to this thread. What an ignorant post. Pro choicers don't justify abortion, they recognize the right to choose. Most probably wouldn't consider an abortion in their own lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Iteration said: My last topic, if anything, demonstrated the incoherence and illogical nature of the pro choice position. Pro choicers struggled to even propose a single argument for their position and often dodged questions especially when cornered. This showcases a recurring theme of pro choicers inability to justify abortion. This thread is my attempt at actually getting to the pro choice arguments. If you have one, please post it. If you do not, do not respond to this thread. The pro-choice argument is simple: women, along with their doctors, have the RIGHT to choose THEIR HEALTHCARE, and that right supersedes all the rights of the clump of cells inhabiting THEIR BODY. IF I needed a kidney to live, and you were the only match available, I, like the fetus, would have NO RIGHT to demand your kidney be given to me, against your will. Same thing with the fetus and the woman's uterus. Thing is, most MEN are so used to denying women's rights, they think nothing of doing that here. There is a conflict of rights, and the born human WINS in ALL cases over the interloper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Quote The pro-choice argument is simple: women, along with their doctors, have the RIGHT to choose THEIR HEALTHCARE, and that right supersedes all the rights of the clump of cells inhabiting THEIR BODY. Okay, so let's get clarity on this: does a woman (in your view) have the right to do anything with her body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 9 hours ago, Aristides said: What an ignorant post. Pro choicers don't justify abortion, they recognize the right to choose. Most probably wouldn't consider an abortion in their own lives. Why should a woman have the right to choose to kill an unborn human? What is the argument for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Iteration said: Why should a woman have the right to choose to kill an unborn human? What is the argument for that? Explain to me your reason a 10 year old rape victim should be forced to carry to term please. I believe in medical and mental health abortions a medical abortion saved my daughters life, a mental health abortion would have saved a friend of mine in school from being labeled a whore and coming to believe she ASKED to be raped by her uncle. This issue is not black and white there is no yes or no answer that will work for everyone. Should abortion be legal? Yes, it stop the back alley abortions from happening and allows for medical and mental health abortions that NO ONE in their right mind who truly believes in religious freedom should be against. I have moral issue with the I like unprotected sex but don't want a kid abortion, but those are MY morals. My daughter disagrees and we debate about it a lot but it is mostly a intellectual exercise. While I would not call myself pro-choice I will never agree with the way the pro=life stance has approached the issue. I also blame the sudden shift toward pro-life in this country to partial birth abortion, which most pro choice people I personally know and even my daughter have trouble defending. one thing they all seem to agree on is there should be a cut off point where doctors say, sorry you waited to long her are adoption forms. That all being said please explain to me your reason for a 10 year old rape victim to be forced to carry to term simply because her parents are Catholics. I'll wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote Should abortion be legal? Yes Do you believe an unborn baby should have rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Iteration said: @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Do you believe an unborn baby should have rights? Explain to me your reason a 10 year old rape victim should be forced to carry to term please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Another anti-choice opinion from a MAN. Who couldn't have a choice if he wanted to. My Mom, my wife and my daughter would tell you to STFU and MYOB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Do you believe an unborn baby should have rights? Last chance to answer. You will be ignored subsequently if you believe you can come into a thread and try to derail it. Edited October 20, 2022 by Iteration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 32 minutes ago, herbie said: Another anti-choice opinion from a MAN. Who couldn't have a choice if he wanted to. My Mom, my wife and my daughter would tell you to STFU and MYOB Ignoring the hypocritical assumption of gender here, do you have the argument as to why abortion should be legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Just now, Iteration said: @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Do you believe an unborn baby should have rights? Last chance to answer. You will be ignored subsequently if you believe you can come into a thread and try to derail it/ Fine ignore me, you have dodged my question, but I will answer yours. No, The same way a newborn has no rights, the same way a small child has no true rights. It is for the informed adults of the community to make an informed decision about what the best course of action is, was , and will be. You addressed one statement in a fairly large post. Nothing to say on everything else I said, Don't want to justify forcing a 10 year old rape victim to carry to term? Because you can't Ignore me I don't care, I am comfortable and happy in my faith in the Christian God that he loves me and all of us, At the time of Jesus I could see this being an issue the population of the world needed to grow to be viable, also I don't really want to imagine how it might have been done back then so yeah. Things change less than 100 years ago the age of consent was 13, perhaps you wish we would return to that so you no longer have to justify forcing child rape victims to carry to term. One last thing, as a Christian I have looked there is NOT ONE verse denouncing abortion as the crime you think it is. Times change, either evolve or go back to your cave, you are giving every other Christian in the world a bad image. It is no our place to force our morals and beliefs on ANYONE. Religion has no place in government hence Separation of Church and State. Look it up the FOUNDERS of this COUNTRY said that. They made a document so our country could grow and become better as society changed and grew and the morals and ways of the past became anathema as we learned a better way. Ignore me, fine go ahead. But hang your head in shame as you force a child that was raped to carry to term just to ease your conscience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote No, The same way a newborn has no rights, the same way a small child has no true rights Lol, wait, so in your view, you think someone should be allowed to stab a child to death because they should have no rights? Edited October 19, 2022 by Iteration Precise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 "I believe in medical and mental health abortions a medical abortion saved my daughters life, a mental health abortion would have saved a friend of mine in school from being labeled a whore and coming to believe she ASKED to be raped by her uncle. This issue is not black and white there is no yes or no answer that will work for everyone. Should abortion be legal? Yes, it stop the back alley abortions from happening and allows for medical and mental health abortions that NO ONE in their right mind who truly believes in religious freedom should be against. I have moral issue with the I like unprotected sex but don't want a kid abortion, but those are MY morals. My daughter disagrees and we debate about it a lot but it is mostly a intellectual exercise. While I would not call myself pro-choice I will never agree with the way the pro=life stance has approached the issue." As for derailing the Topic this entire paragraph addresses the topic and spells out why I think it should be legal, you ignored it save for one sentence. That is a you problem. I am not derailing anything. Now are you going to answer my question or or ignore me and hope I go away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Iteration said: @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Lol, wait, so in your view, you think someone should be allowed to stab a child to death because they should have no rights? I like how you focus on one single aspect of my post and ignore the rest. and I answered you question where is you answer to mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote I like how you focus on one single aspect of my post and ignore the rest. and I answered you question where is you answer to mine? Hold on, you just stated that a child does or should not have any rights. Yes or no, do you then believe that someone should be allowed to stab a child to death, without punishment or consequence? Edited October 19, 2022 by Iteration Formatting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Iteration said: @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Hold on, you just stated that a child does or should not have any rights. Yes or no, do you then believe that someone should be allowed to stab a child to death, without punishment or consequence? Quid pro Quo I answered your question you answer mine. Edited October 19, 2022 by Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, Iteration said: @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Hold on, you just stated that a child does or should not have any rights. Yes or no, do you then believe that someone should be allowed to stab a child to death, without punishment or consequence? And just because you are probably going to dodge again, No, and that is not what I said and you know it. I said that "a child has no true rights" That is because they are under the guidance and protection of their parents, church and community until such time as they be reasonably expected to make decisions. And it therefore falls to their parents village elders, and the medical professional the go to, to make the informed decision as to what the best course of action is, was and will be. And you are still dodging my Question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 @Jedi_Master_Tallyn I will give you three attempts to answer the question. After such, you will be ignored. This will be attempt number 1 You just stated that children do not/should not have any rights. If this is the case, do you then believe that someone should be allowed to stab a child to death, or even rape or eat them without punishment or consequence? Yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 No, and that is not what I said and you know it. I said that "a child has no true rights" That is because they are under the guidance and protection of their parents, church and community until such time as they be reasonably expected to make decisions. And it therefore falls to their parents village elders, and the medical professional the go to, to make the informed decision as to what the best course of action is, was and will be. And you are still dodging my Question. reposted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Quote No, and that is not what I said and you know it. I said that "a child has no true rights" That is because they are under the guidance and protection of their parents, church and community until such time as they be reasonably expected to make decisions. And it therefore falls to their parents village elders, and the medical professional the go to, to make the informed decision as to what the best course of action is, was and will be. Okay, so by rights as someone who is familiar with basic English, I mean legal and ethical principles of freedom or entitlement. Now, the question is, if you do not believe that unborn child has rights, what is the standard that determines whether or not someone should have rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Iteration said: Okay, so by rights as someone who is familiar with basic English, I mean legal and ethical principles of freedom or entitlement. Now, the question is, if you do not believe that unborn child has rights, what is the standard that determines whether or not someone should have rights? The ability to rationally and intelligent look at the laws traditions and beliefs of the land and make an informed decision about, what your next course of action is, do you stay within the laws beliefs and traditions of your community, or do you begin to break them. You have to understand your rights before you can exercise them. Before that you are protected by the adults who do understand such things around you from being stabbed to death or raped or eaten. Edited October 19, 2022 by Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote The ability to rationally and intelligent look at the laws traditions and beliefs of the land and make an informed decision about, what your next course of action is, do you stay within the laws beliefs and traditions of your community, or do you begin to break them. Okay, so a mentally disabled human or a young child who is not able to act rationally to such a degree, they would have no rights under your view? Yes or no, should someone be allowed to rape/stab to death these people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Master_Tallyn Posted October 19, 2022 Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 Just now, Iteration said: @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Okay, so a mentally disabled human or a young child who is not able to act rationally to such a degree, they would have no rights under your view? Yes or no, should someone be allowed to rape/stab to death these people? Stop being obtuse, you are painting a very specific picture here by limiting my answers to Yes/No. Will you be the same when it is you turn on the hot seat? Will you even take a turn on the hot seat? I sincerely doubt that. But fine I will play you little game. No. And you know why as well as anyone with a modicum of intelligence does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iteration Posted October 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2022 @Jedi_Master_Tallyn Quote No. Okay, now that will be your first logical contradiction. If they had no rights, they would not have protection from this so the contradiction is "these people have no rights and it is not the case that they have no rights." Do you acknowledge that this is a contradiction on your view, yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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