Humans CANNOT change the climate of a planet

[SNOWFLAKE]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

I don't think so. All I keep hearing about is wind and solar, with nuclear barely getting any mention. It makes no sense to move so quickly to these kinds of energy sources without having reliable backup. Think of the situation in Europe now.

Energy crisis has Europe hoarding wood, cleaning chimneys, mulling dung | Fortune

They caved in to the environmentalists and drastically shackled their own oil and gas industry and this is the result. So much for affordability.

I was hoping when I joined this forum I wouldn't meet such monumental stupidity, but apparently it is universal.

Wind and solar are NOT the only alternative sources BEING currently explored. Let's be clear, oil and gas are finite. As the supply diminishes the cost for oil and gas will increase.

A simple search of the internet would inform you what other resources there are. Example:

https://justenergy.com/blog/why-alternative-energy-sources-are-future/

https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/alternative-energy-sources

Making simplistic statements without actually doing any research is the refuge of a simple mind. Sorry if that sounds like an insult, but you walked right into it.

[Nationalist]

22 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Eventually. Humans have no right to survive than any other species.

Oh please. Your fear-porn is a joke.

ESPECIALLY when it's obvious you'd watch people starve and go bankrupt from your alter of destruction. 

[Nationalist]

4 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

I was hoping when I joined this forum I wouldn't meet such monumental stupidity, but apparently it is universal.

Wind and solar are NOT the only alternative sources BEING currently explored. Let's be clear, oil and gas are finite. As the supply diminishes the cost for oil and gas will increase.

A simple search of the internet would inform you what other resources there are. Example:

https://justenergy.com/blog/why-alternative-energy-sources-are-future/

https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/alternative-energy-sources

Making simplistic statements without actually doing any research is the refuge of a simple mind. Sorry if that sounds like an insult, but you walked right into it.

I guess you hoped in vain there Snowflake. To many rational people left here. But hey...you could always try to make thought a punishable offense...

[Rebound]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

I am a bit curious about what you said about the Grimsby wind farm. You say they claim 95% reliability but that seems like an evasive term. I would ask what the capacity of that particular wind farm is and what the actual average output is.

What I have read about wind turbines is that the average actual output is almost never anywhere near the rated capacity.

They will suck up an enormous amount of land and offshore space.

 

That land use chart is nonsense, because nobody wants to live near a nuclear power plant. That makes the land use of nuclear MASSIVE.  What’s the land use of putting solar panels on rooftops and over parking spaces? Zero.  
 

Besides that, the truly important point is that, in the post-Fukushima, post-Westinghouse/Toshiba era, nobody in North America will finance or approve of a new nuclear power plant. Hell, there are wind farms that have problems with approvals, and when a windmill breaks, it doesn’t contaminate the ground around it for 10,000 years.  
 

Let’s take Donald Trump as an example. For some weird reason, he got a massive bug up his ass because he didn’t like the offshore windmills near his club in Scotland. Do your seriously think he’d prefer a nuclear plant right next to his club? Of course not!

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

I don't think so. All I keep hearing about is wind and solar, with nuclear barely getting any mention. It makes no sense to move so quickly to these kinds of energy sources without having reliable backup. Think of the situation in Europe now.

Energy crisis has Europe hoarding wood, cleaning chimneys, mulling dung | Fortune

They caved in to the environmentalists and drastically shackled their own oil and gas industry and this is the result. So much for affordability.

Today, wind turbines generate 9.2% of all electricity in America, and nuclear power generates about 20%.  We aren’t going to get any new nuclear plants. Besides the fact that nobody will permit their construction, nobody will finance one.  Westinghouse/Toshiba lost billions on US nuclear plants. They aren’t financially viable. 

[Aristides]

22 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Oh please. Your fear-porn is a joke.

ESPECIALLY when it's obvious you'd watch people starve and go bankrupt from your alter of destruction. 

Why do you think you are so special that you are immune to the consequences of what happens to this planet?

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Rebound said:

Today, wind turbines generate 9.2% of all electricity in America, and nuclear power generates about 20%.  We aren’t going to get any new nuclear plants. Besides the fact that nobody will permit their construction, nobody will finance one.  Westinghouse/Toshiba lost billions on US nuclear plants. They aren’t financially viable. 

So according to you...your green tech and nuclear combine for less than 30% of American electricity.

And so in what can only be identified as mean or stupid...take ur pick...the left decides to make the source of over 70% of American electricity, way more expensive.

Good call...

[SNOWFLAKE]

17 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I guess you hoped in vain there Snowflake. To many rational people left here. But hey...you could always try to make thought a punishable offense...

You see how it goes, I post a couple of links to debunk the previous poster's comments, and all you have to offer is snark. If you are implying that your lot is "rational" I would ask you to back that up by actually showing scientific evidence that suggests oil is NOT a finite fuel and that OIL is not a carbon producing product.

When the average high school graduate can answer that question but your ilk can't, that is truly scary.

So no rational thought should not be a punishable offense, but please let me know when you have one.

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Why do you think you are so special that you are immune to the consequences of what happens to this planet?

I don't think anything of the sort.

I think the religion of climate panic is just another destructive method for fear campaigning.

I also think the planet will be fine. But these nutty measures being taken are causing real pain and will kill many.

[SNOWFLAKE]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So according to you...your green tech and nuclear combine for less than 30% of American electricity.

And so in what can only be identified as mean or stupid...take ur pick...the left decides to make the source of over 70% of American electricity, way more expensive.

Good call...

Sorry, that is a canard. Look up the definition.

OIL IS FINITE. When a commodity is finite what happens when that community becomes scarce? Can you provide an answer.

As per the links I provided, there ARE alternative energy sources that are NOT finite. 

Apparently having had a high school education and having read scientific journals as opposed to just repeating Rightwing media  makes me more aware and sagacious than you will ever be.

Do you need a dictionary to look up sagacious?

[Rebound]

16 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So according to you...your green tech and nuclear combine for less than 30% of American electricity.

And so in what can only be identified as mean or stupid...take ur pick...the left decides to make the source of over 70% of American electricity, way more expensive.

Good call...

Not according to me. According to the US Department of Energy, who report that 60% of US energy is generated from fossil fuels. 
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

It would be irrational to shut down all non-renewable generation in America. But as we increase renewable generation, it reduces CO2 emissions and, just as important, reduces consumption of petroleum, which reduces demand for petroleum… which reduces the price of petroleum. 5%, 10%, 20% increases make a massive difference. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Rebound

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

You see how it goes, I post a couple of links to debunk the previous poster's comments, and all you have to offer is snark. If you are implying that your lot is "rational" I would ask you to back that up by actually showing scientific evidence that suggests oil is NOT a finite fuel and that OIL is not a carbon producing product.

When the average high school graduate can answer that question but your ilk can't, that is truly scary.

So no rational thought should not be a punishable offense, but please let me know when you have one.

Errr...your fascism is showing.

I'm snarky by design Snowflake. Have you seen my avatar? 

The planet and the life on it are carbon based. The planet actually makes carbon. But we're to believe we're all going to die...from carbon.

BTW...I have 3 kids recently out of school and ya know what? None of them think killing the fossil fuel industry is a good idea.

And by mid December...nor will the entire population of Germany, Czech, England, and a host of other nations.

Now...were the fear-porn artists REALLY concerned for humanity...they'd want plentiful, cheap fossil fuels while perfecting their holy windmills and mirrors.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nationalist

[Nationalist]

12 minutes ago, SNOWFLAKE said:

Sorry, that is a canard. Look up the definition.

OIL IS FINITE. When a commodity is finite what happens when that community becomes scarce? Can you provide an answer.

As per the links I provided, there ARE alternative energy sources that are NOT finite. 

Apparently having had a high school education and having read scientific journals as opposed to just repeating Rightwing media  makes me more aware and sagacious than you will ever be.

Do you need a dictionary to look up sagacious?

Ya...panic...fear...

Same ol' same old.

Ur insults are cute...but I'm not impressed Snowflake.

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Not according to me. According to the US Department of Energy, who report that 60% of US energy is generated from fossil fuels. 
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

It would be irrational to shut down all non-renewable generation in America. But as we increase renewable generation, it reduces CO2 emissions and, just as important, reduces consumption of petroleum, which reduces demand for petroleum… which reduces the price of petroleum. 

Lol...

[Aristides]

29 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I don't think anything of the sort.

I think the religion of climate panic is just another destructive method for fear campaigning.

I also think the planet will be fine. But these nutty measures being taken are causing real pain and will kill many.

Well you sure as hell seem to.  You are the one who is acting on faith by ignoring the findings of the thousands of scientists who have been studying this for decades. You are the one relying on the religion of denial.

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Well you sure as hell seem to.  You are the one who is acting on faith by ignoring the findings of the thousands of scientists who have been studying this for decades. You are the one relying on the religion of denial.

Wrong. 

I'm the one...among many...who say,

"OK. Ya wanna stop burning things to make energy. Fine. Let's make fossil fuels cheap so even third world nations can have enough power, and we'll invest in research to find a method you can live with. Then...slowly without screwing people immensely...we'll change over."

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nationalist

[Rebound]

39 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...

See? When you’re presented with facts, you refuse to accept them and instead you make a childish comment. How’s that working in the rest of your life? Is it working in your school life? In your professional life? In your love life? No. That doesn’t work for anything.  
 

America can solve its energy problems.  

[Rebound]

23 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Wrong. 

I'm the one...among many...who say,

"OK. Ya wanna stop burning things to make energy. Fine. Let's make fossil fuels cheap so even third world nations can have enough power, and we'll invest in research to find a method you can live with. Then...slowly without screwing people immensely...we'll change over."

There are methods of power generation we can live with: Renewable energy. The oil companies will spend their last dime to convince people that’s not true, but it is true.  

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Wrong. 

I'm the one...among many...who say,

"OK. Ya wanna stop burning things to make energy. Fine. Let's make fossil fuels cheap so even third world nations can have enough power, and we'll invest in research to find a method you can live with. Then...slowly without screwing people immensely...we'll change over."

What research?  You burn carbon based fuels, carbon dioxide is one of the byproducts. WTF are you talking about.

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

See? When you’re presented with facts, you refuse to accept them and instead you make a childish comment. How’s that working in the rest of your life? Is it working in your school life? In your professional life? In your love life? No. That doesn’t work for anything.  
 

America can solve its energy problems.  

Look around you. Does it look like the price of petroleum is going down? No. It's being unnecessarily raised.

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, Rebound said:

There are methods of power generation we can live with: Renewable energy. The oil companies will spend their last dime to convince people that’s not true, but it is true.  

Right. Until the windmills freeze...or the wind dies...or the sun goes down.

If you expect people to be reasonable with you, you need to be honest with the people. 

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

What research?  You burn carbon based fuels, carbon dioxide is one of the byproducts. WTF are you talking about.

Nothing...go back to sleep.

[SNOWFLAKE]

8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Errr...your fascism is showing.

I'm snarky by design Snowflake. Have you seen my avatar? 

The planet and the life on it are carbon based. The planet actually makes carbon. But we're to believe we're all going to die...from carbon.

BTW...I have 3 kids recently out of school and ya know what? None of them think killing the fossil fuel industry is a good idea.

And by mid December...nor will the entire population of Germany, Czech, England, and a host of other nations.

Now...were the fear-porn artists REALLY concerned for humanity...they'd want plentiful, cheap fossil fuels while perfecting their holy windmills and mirrors.

Being pro-environment is being Fascist? Ok, we know where you are coming from.

But you never addressed the facts I raised except to say nah nah boo boo

Prices for gas and oil WILL GO UP as supply declines, but you clearly are under the impression gas and oil are infinite

You COULD if you were so inclined research other sources of energy that is under exploration such as 

https://justenergy.com/blog/why-alternative-energy-sources-are-future/

BUT you won't even look at anything that offers alternatives, you rather blather about people being Fascists because they have a different point of view than you do

AND IF your kids really did learn anything in school ask them, or look it up yourself, what happens when you pump more carbon than the Earth naturally produces into the atmosphere, I mean seriously, this is basic science 101

BUT you won't.

[Rebound]

9 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Right. Until the windmills freeze...or the wind dies...or the sun goes down.

If you expect people to be reasonable with you, you need to be honest with the people. 

Frozen windmills? I already told you half of Denmark’s electricity comes from windmills.  They don’t freeze.  
 

You’re wrong about all this, so all you have is your jackass “lol” and made up lies.  

Edited October 19, 2022 by Rebound

[Rebound]

14 hours ago, Nationalist said:The planet and the life on it are carbon based. The planet actually makes carbon. But we're to believe we're all going to die...from carbon.

Go fill up a balloon with Carbon Monoxide and take a few puffs.  Cause carbon and oxygen can’t hurt you, right?