Euthanism & Right to Die

[August1991]

On 12/17/2022 at 10:00 AM, reason10 said:

The Germans were unique in that the SIX MILLION DEAD JEWS were mostly ashes, thanks to the ovens at the Concentration camps.

 

I think that you misunderstand what happened.

The Poles, to their credit, have built a memorial at Treblinka. Hitler's Wolfsschanze - it is not far. Nor, the remnants of the Tannenberg Memorial.

In modern post-Soviet Poland, by architecture, East Prussia is still obvious.

====

Do you know Isaac Bashevis Singer?

[August1991]

Thread drift ahead:

Lublin, Donetsk, Minsk.

These central parts of Europe have too many ghosts.

====

Pierre Trudeau was correct. "They would make the West Island the Danzig of the New World."

Edited January 3, 2023 by August1991

[reason10]

On 12/19/2022 at 7:08 PM, August1991 said:

It's not a complicated distinction /sarcsam:

a) Police are allowed to kill people but mothers are not.

b) US soldiers can kill people but mothers cannot.

c) Mothers kill their babies

====

My point: what makes the world a better place: abortion or capital punishment. 

a) Police are allowed to kill people but mothers are not.

That is a stupid LIE. Police are permitted to DEFEND THEIR LIVES and DEFEND THE LIVES OF THE PUBLIC with deadly force. A pregnant mother is permitted in most states to DEFEND HER LIFE (against an impending, life threatening pregnancy) with deadly force. Without police to use deadly force, you would not be safe in your home or away from it.

(Is it just my imagination or are you REALLY stupid and ignorant with these comparisons.)

b) US soldiers can kill people but mothers cannot.

You are comparing a soldier, someone who puts his life ON THE LINE to protect your freedom and your rights with a high school slut that wants to look good in a prom dress? Are you REALLY that effing STUPID? Move to Somalia, where there is no national military protecting your rights and see how long you last.

c) Mothers kill their babies

That's basically what abortion is. Killing human life. And civilized society has specific rules about when it is okay to take a human life. When you grow up (which for you might mean getting past the third grade in a red state) you may be able to grasp it.

Right now, you don't have the brains to stick to a single thread topic without going all over the place when you lose an argument. Florida kindergarteners are smarter and more focused.

 

[reason10]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

I think that you misunderstand what happened.

The Poles, to their credit, have built a memorial at Treblinka. Hitler's Wolfsschanze - it is not far. Nor, the remnants of the Tannenberg Memorial.

In modern post-Soviet Poland, by architecture, East Prussia is still obvious.

====

Do you know Isaac Bashevis Singer?

In other words, you're changing the subject again. This is too much like a Florida special ed class and I'm not getting paid to listen to your childish rantings.

[TreeBeard]

12 hours ago, reason10 said:

civilized society has specific rules about when it is okay to take a human life.

True.  One of those times is when someone doesn’t want to remain pregnant.  The fetus’ right to life doesn’t Trump a woman’s bodily autonomy.  Or, it shouldn’t.  I suppose it does now in some parts of the USA. 

[reason10]

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

True.  One of those times is when someone doesn’t want to remain pregnant.  The fetus’ right to life doesn’t Trump a woman’s bodily autonomy.  Or, it shouldn’t.  I suppose it does now in some parts of the USA. 

If a BABY threatens the life of  a mother, that is a legitimate reason to kill it.

But if the baby  makes a high school slut look bad in a prom dress?

[TreeBeard]

3 hours ago, reason10 said:

If a BABY threatens the life of  a mother, that is a legitimate reason to kill it.

But if the baby  makes a high school slut look bad in a prom dress?

How did you determine that the mother’s life is more important and it’s the “baby” that should die and not the mother?  

[reason10]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

How did you determine that the mother’s life is more important and it’s the “baby” that should die and not the mother?  

In terms of an impending birth threatening the life of a mother, Ronald Reagan had it right. The mother, whose life is threatened by a birth, has the right to defend herself. That is reasonable.

It's not a preferable situation. Having to order the death of a human being never is (except for the FemiNazis, who look at abortion as a holy religious sacrament), but clearly humans have the right to defend themselves.

Of course, a pregnancy that might make a prom dress look too tight is NOT a threat to human life.

[TreeBeard]

46 minutes ago, reason10 said:

In terms of an impending birth threatening the life of a mother, Ronald Reagan had it right. The mother, whose life is threatened by a birth, has the right to defend herself. That is reasonable.

It's not a preferable situation. Having to order the death of a human being never is (except for the FemiNazis, who look at abortion as a holy religious sacrament), but clearly humans have the right to defend themselves.

Of course, a pregnancy that might make a prom dress look too tight is NOT a threat to human life.

Pregnancy is dangerous.  You and I believe the same thing, but just draw the line in a different place.  
 

If the pregnancy is from rape or incest, then you have no issues with forcing a woman to remain pregnant?

[reason10]

47 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Pregnancy is dangerous.  You and I believe the same thing, but just draw the line in a different place.  
 

If the pregnancy is from rape or incest, then you have no issues with forcing a woman to remain pregnant?

That remains in the purview of the individual states. Personally, I believe a female should be of legal age of consent to get pregnant. I have no problem with a female's ability to CHOOSE whether or not to get pregnant, but the age before consent throws a monkey wrench into that concept.

Rape is definitely a consent issue. For that reason EVERY rape should be immediately reported. ALL rape victims should be given a rape kit at the hospital so the police can get on the trail of the animals who did that. And the victim should at that time be allowed the CHOICE of the morning after pill to reverse the non consensual conception.

Incest is another consent issue. Incest is a form of rape and should be treated that way. The male involved in the incest should be arrested and charged with rape. We aren't royalty from the Mayan people.

Here's the thing: When the mother waits until the NINTH MONTH to announce it is a rape or an incest, then she becomes an irresponsible lying slut. At that point, have the kid and give it up for adoption immediately. Walk away. Grow a brain and try to be more careful next time.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

That remains in the purview of the individual states. Personally, I believe a female should be of legal age of consent to get pregnant. I have no problem with a female's ability to CHOOSE whether or not to get pregnant, but the age before consent throws a monkey wrench into that concept.

Rape is definitely a consent issue. For that reason EVERY rape should be immediately reported. ALL rape victims should be given a rape kit at the hospital so the police can get on the trail of the animals who did that. And the victim should at that time be allowed the CHOICE of the morning after pill to reverse the non consensual conception.

Incest is another consent issue. Incest is a form of rape and should be treated that way. The male involved in the incest should be arrested and charged with rape. We aren't royalty from the Mayan people.

Here's the thing: When the mother waits until the NINTH MONTH to announce it is a rape or an incest, then she becomes an irresponsible lying slut. At that point, have the kid and give it up for adoption immediately. Walk away. Grow a brain and try to be more careful next time.

You didn’t really answer the question….

Is it ok for a 13 year old to have an abortion, say at 5 weeks, due to rape/incest?  
 

Or is she an irresponsible lying slut by then as well?

[August1991]

On 1/3/2023 at 8:07 AM, reason10 said:

.....

That's basically what abortion is. Killing human life.

 

Agreed.

====

And I have no objection to the State allowing killing human life.

My question is whether this killing of life makes the world a better place.

[August1991]

Capital Punishment no longer exists in Canada.

You Americans still have it on the table. For plea-bargains, it's a factor.

It makes the world a better place.

[August1991]

Yet we in Canada now have MAID.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html

 

[reason10]

8 hours ago, August1991 said:

Agreed.

====

And I have no objection to the State allowing killing human life.

My question is whether this killing of life makes the world a better place.

The concept of ALL combined human activity making the world either a better place or a worse place is one of the most ridiculous ideas of the ages. The entire human race is not even a spec on this giant blue rock in space. Most of the surface of the planet is WATER, where humans cannot survive without specialized machinery. Most of the surface of the planet is wilderness. Humans don't even take up a FRACTION of that land.

In the two most populous countries of the world, (and I know this from  businessmen who have been to both places) most of the people there are illiterate and starving to death. While the mean dastardly United States struggles with labor issues, minimum wages, OSHA regulations to make workplaces safe, both India and China continue to flood the world with ultra cheap products made by SLAVE labor, in a manner America's earliest plantation models would be green with envy. And now the most populous SLAVE owners of the world (China) have bought and  paid for our unelected president.

The creation of the United States Of America certainly improved the conditions of the HUMAN population of the world.

[reason10]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:56 PM, TreeBeard said:

You didn’t really answer the question….

Is it ok for a 13 year old to have an abortion, say at 5 weeks, due to rape/incest?  
 

Or is she an irresponsible lying slut by then as well?

You didn't answer the question. Is it okay for a RAPED 13 year old to go five weeks without reporting the rape? Or the incest?

I've given up on you woke Nazis somehow finding any problem with a PREGNANT 13 YEAR OLD. Apparently your standards have gone down the schitter.

In a civilized world, a 13 year old pregnancy is a horrific event. The child, IN A CIVILIZED WORLD, is checked for pregnancy at the very FIRST signs, and the PARENTS carry that out. (Responsible parents, not ignorant sperm donors who cash welfare checks and watch THE VIEW every day in their trailer.) A RAPE of a 13 year old? In civilized times, that rape is reported INSTANTLY in any functioning community. The child is given a rape kit and a morning after pill to stop the pregnancy. And the rapist is usually found, arrested and sentenced to prison. Society at one time used to give a specific and harsh message for people wanting to have sex with minors.

That is, before a racist pedophile was illegally elected president.

 

[blackbird]

God has said in his written revelation "thou shalt not kill".  When someone is raped, the perpetrator should be punished and should be forced to pay support payments.  Allowing someone to abort the unborn child is still killing another innocent human.  Two wrongs do not make a right.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

God has said in his written revelation "thou shalt not kill".  When someone is raped, the perpetrator should be punished and should be forced to pay support payments.  Allowing someone to abort the unborn child is still killing another innocent human.  Two wrongs do not make a right.

Luckily, that disgusting view is the minority in Canada.  Forcing a child to remain pregnant after a rape.  That’s a grotesque, evil, inhumane view.  

[herbie]

If you squeeze your eyes and clamp your mid down hard enough and simply refuse to recognize the difference between a fetus and a living, breathing human being you can justify that stance.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Luckily, that disgusting view is the minority in Canada.  Forcing a child to remain pregnant after a rape.  That’s a grotesque, evil, inhumane view.  

No it is not.  It is a disgusting view only to a heathen, depraved sinner who rejects God and his word, and has no respect for the sanctity of human life of the unborn child.  The unborn baby is just as human as you and has just as much right to live as you.  He or she did no crime and should not die.  I think when God, in his written revelation, recognizes the unborn as human and knows them personally, it should tell us he regards them as persons the same as someone who is born.  We should all respect God's view as he created us and owns our bodies.

Edited January 6, 2023 by blackbird

[TreeBeard]

35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The unborn baby is just as human as you

I never said it wasn’t human.  
 

35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

He or she did no crime and should not die. 

One doesn’t need to commit a crime to die.  In fact, there is no capital punishment in Canada.  This statement is nonsensical.  
 

35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We should all respect God's view

I do.  But you and I have different interpretations and there’s no way to straighten that out until God comes down and tells us directly.  So your interpretation doesn’t trump mine. 
 

Bodily autonomy of the woman trumps the rights of a fetus.  Just like if a 5 year  old needs blood, or a kidney, no one is ever forced to give up their own.  We would let the child die before we forced anyone to give an ounce of blood. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by TreeBeard

[blackbird]

18 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

But you and I have different interpretations and there’s no way to straighten that out until God comes down and tells us directly.

God has already "come down and told us directly" with his written word.  Its called the Bible.  Get one.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

God has already "come down and told us directly" with his written word.  Its called the Bible.  Get one.

Men wrote the bible.  There are too many ambiguities and passages left up for interpretation.  
 

What do you think about the bodily autonomy argument?  Can you be forced to give your blood?

[reason10]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:04 PM, TreeBeard said:

True.  One of those times is when someone doesn’t want to remain pregnant.  The fetus’ right to life doesn’t Trump a woman’s bodily autonomy.  Or, it shouldn’t.  I suppose it does now in some parts of the USA. 

So you believe in slavery. You believe a BABY is never a human life, even an hour after it is born.

Sieg Heil, Nazi.

[TreeBeard]

5 hours ago, reason10 said:

So you believe in slavery. You believe a BABY is never a human life, even an hour after it is born.

Sieg Heil, Nazi.

It’s human. I said that exact thing a few posts up.  
 

But the woman’s rights to bodily autonomy supersedes the fetus’ rights.  Do we force anyone to give blood?  Never.