Where do you land? Is socialism a failed experiment or have we just not tried the right kind?

[I am Groot]

On 10/8/2022 at 3:19 PM, Aristides said:

It's compulsory so it is socialism. Paying into Social Security is also compulsory in the US.

Stopping at red lights is also compulsory. As are taxes.

Edited October 10, 2022 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

On 10/8/2022 at 4:10 PM, Aristides said:

It is your money but by law you have to contribute. 

All taxes you pay are your money.

Not for me but for some, any laws that dictate behaviour are socialism. 

What? Including laws against molesting children? Even your own children? 

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, cougar said:

Definitely we have not had the right kind.

Capitalism cannot last - it is based on greed and exploitation and unlimited resources and an unlimited pool of people/customers.

Capitalism has turned people into monkeys chasing their tails.

Need I say more?

Yes. What's to replace it? Capitalism is, after all, responsive to human behaviour patterns. Socialism generally ignores human behaviour, which is why it fails. And also why Socialist governments always become ever more authoritarian trying to get people to go against their nature.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

What? Including laws against molesting children? Even your own children? 

I suppose some could say "if you are unable to protect your own family, why should I have to pay taxes to provide them with protection?"

[blackbird]

On 10/7/2022 at 4:04 PM, MajorJo said:

As I am a Marxist I believe in pure Communism of which has never been practiced due to the billionaire elites doing anything they can to avoid it. 

Collectivism (or Communism) has failed wherever it has been tried.  You say you believe in "pure" Communism and it has never been practiced...   There are several reasons why it would never work.

1. Human nature.  Human nature is to look after one's self first and one's family.  You can't force a collective system on people who don't wish to give everything they have to a collective and support those who don't want to contribute or work.

2. It is against God's commandment to not steal.  God taught we can own private property.  Communism is the opposite.  Nobody owns anything themselves.  Everything belongs to the collective.

3. In practice Communist systems do not distribute everything equally.  Some are more equal than others.  In actual practice the authorities look after themselves first and leave everyone else in poverty.

4.  Communism requires total control of every individual.  That means nobody has any freedom.  Everything is theoretically for the collective good.  

5.  It has been tried in the 20th century and was a disaster.  100 million were killed in Russia and China and other places trying to establish control and a collective of sorts.

6.  Why would anyone work hard when the collective will take care of him and when the collective will simply take anything he produces and does not recognize achievement or innovation or hard work?

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

30 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I understand you don't care what the Bible says.  Then you should look to Jesus Christ and learn who he is, how he has compassion, mercy, and forgiveness.  Understand why he came to earth, suffered and died on the cross.  He is all that matters and is the only one who can save a person.  Jesus cares more than anyone else.

Glad you understand.

Perhaps instead of insult and damnation you should try the "compassion and mercy" for those that disagree with you???

Understand my view. Jesus never said a thing or wrote a thing in the bible. It is all hearsay from the story tellers you call prophets. Same goes for the old testament, all one story after another from story tellers, word of mouth, and I am 100% sure elaborated over the eons.

Lastly, he is not "all that matters" in my world and life. I have many more things that matter and I certainly do not need a bible thumping evangelist to tell me what matters.

Time to stop this religion issue with you. Time for you to stay on topic and not bend every topic towards the bible.

This is a thread on socialism.

Edited October 10, 2022 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

48 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We are talking about the supernatural, not the earthly material world.

And we're talking about a God who can spin universes out of nothing yet apparently spends an inordinate amount of time contemplating the things people do with their genitals.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Glad you understand.

Perhaps instead of insult and damnation you should try the "compassion and mercy" for those that disagree with you???

Understand my view. Jesus never said a thing or wrote a thing in the bible. It is all hearsay from the story tellers you call prophets. Same goes for the old testament, all one story after another from story tellers, word of mouth, and I am 100% sure elaborated over the eons.

Lastly, he is not "all that matters" in my world and life. I have many more things that matter and I certainly do not need a bible thumping evangelist to tell me what matters.

Time to stop this religion issue with you. Time for you to stay on topic and not bend every topic towards the bible.

This is a thread on socialism.

You make a good point about "compassion and mercy".  I will agree that is always the best approach.

"Jesus believed that the Bible alone has supreme authority when even the most revered of all human teachings conflict with it. Scripture alone is God’s supreme written authority. Jesus affirmed the inerrancy of the Old Testament. Inerrancy means without error."

What did Jesus say about the reliability of the Bible? - New York Apologetics

The beginning of the gospel of John says Jesus is the word.  The Bible is often referred to as the word.  So if Jesus is the word, then he inspired men to write the whole Bible (40 different authors over 1,500 years).

"1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2  The same was in the beginning with God. 3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. "  John 1:1 KJV  So you see how God says even his word is God in verse 1.

Jesus does care about our lives and what is happening to us.  Since he is also God, that is important.  He wants us to know him and his will for our lives.  That could make the difference between a good life as well as a good eternity.

Practically every topic is related to God and the Bible.  Socialism is a really an important moral question and therefore the Bible is very relevant to it.

Edited October 10, 2022 by blackbird

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

And we're talking about a God who can spin universes out of nothing yet apparently spends an inordinate amount of time contemplating the things people do with their genitals.

Nobody said that.  Why make it up.   Yes God is concerned about how people live their lives because that effects everything and everyone.  But Jesus is very concerned with our basic salvation.  As the Bible teaches, he is merciful, compassionate and not willing that anyone should be lost.  So it is wise to learn a little about him in the New Testament, particularly the gospels.  Until then a person will be a mental prisoner of the world and all of it's temptations and pleasures.  Jesus said he would deliver us from all that and set us free.  That is what real freedom is.

[ExFlyer]

35 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You make a good point about "compassion and mercy".  I will agree that is always the best approach.

"Jesus believed that the Bible alone has supreme authority when even the most revered of all human teachings conflict with it. Scripture alone is God’s supreme written authority. Jesus affirmed the inerrancy of the Old Testament. Inerrancy means without error."

What did Jesus say about the reliability of the Bible? - New York Apologetics

The beginning of the gospel of John says Jesus is the word.  The Bible is often referred to as the word.  So if Jesus is the word, then he inspired men to write the whole Bible (40 different authors over 1,500 years).

"1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2  The same was in the beginning with God. 3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. "  John 1:1 KJV  So you see how God says even his word is God in verse 1.

Jesus does care about our lives and what is happening to us.  Since he is also God, that is important.  He wants us to know him and his will for our lives.  That could make the difference between a good life as well as a good eternity.

Practically every topic is related to God and the Bible.  Socialism is a really an important moral question and therefore the Bible is very relevant to it.

All Hearsay. Stories.

[herbie]

Everytime I post something seemingly absurd it's to point out how those that preach the Bible the loudest act the opposite of it's teachings and encourage others to believe that's what is actually written.

And every time I turn on the lights, go to the doctor, ride the ferry or even post on this cruddy rural Internet, I thank the series of free enterprise gov'ts that weren't too chickenshit to implement policies that were better just because they might be socialist in origin.

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

And we're talking about a God who can spin universes out of nothing yet apparently spends an inordinate amount of time contemplating the things people do with their genitals.

Hey, one's a job. The other is just a hobby.