Drax (UK): "green" burning of Canada's old growth forests

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

What is BS?

I said "Canada has nothing to trade or sell except it's resources. "

You seem to be agreeing with what I said.

Read the entire post please...

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Read the entire post please...

I did, I read your post twice before I asked... now 3 times

What in my post is "mostly" BS?

It is nice your family owned a big farm but I am not sure what relevance that has to my post?

 

[herbie]

Good God, you can't prove forests are replanted just by saying so on paper - says the person who's never been in a room full of stinky unwashed tree planters waiting to use the showers....

Give up your tirade of bullshit about 99.9% destroyed and your Winnie The Pooh notion that 100 acres even is a 'forest'... you can drive for hours through nothing but; no towns, no farms, no gas stations. You can't even drive to most of the coastal forest in BC!

SIMPLE economics for simple people: why the hell would you sell a log to a pellet plant if a sawmill would pay double or more?

EDIT I went to my niece's wedding in Newfoundland in 2014 and the wife and I walked to where people were smoking - one of them pointed and said "I know you you ran the Internet cafe in...". The other end of the damn country FFS. Half a dozen young people who'd tree planted here.

Edited October 6, 2022 by herbie
added

[herbie]

CBC Marketplace just aired a story on the Drax controversy tonight. Now I'm not going to get into a BS 'leftist bias' about CBC as every single rep from the BC gov't did duck, hide and refuse interviews on the subject. That only left info from the activists, the Green party and a couple disgruntled politicians.
They too failed to differentiate the difference between a cutblock and 'the forest'. Or point out the cut sections seen from the air as regrowing cuts from God knows when over the last 75 years. Only the "clear cut" by a Drax subcontractor that looks big through a camera lens.
They did acknowledge a couple things that piss me off. One, they'd left a huge burn pile of wood, the very thinh they purport to 'only' use to make pellets. And spoke that this was done "last year" as if that was a long time. Replanting isn't done three minutes after cutting the trees, the piles were probably just made this summer.

Second, although burning the slash and scrap wood here to make electricity is undoubtedly better than just burning it and getting nothing but CO2 is greener, but....
I completely fail to see just how cutting down trees here, shipping pellets halfway around the world to keep CO2 emitting plants running is green in any way.

It reminds me of the Carbon Credits and capture BS that only creates a new marketable product or sweeps carbon under the rug and does nothing in real results. The entire thing is a way to scam the British (and others) gov't out of subsidies just like I explained happened here. Tax money gobbled up, electricity made, but all for greenwashing local mills and a handful of temporary jobs.

We should impose more regulations like take that scrap away even if it is unprofitable etc. before we even think of expanding the pellet industry. And local wood to local plants only (APPURTENANCE) imposed first.

Pellet stoves are quite popular here in that they're cleaner and easier to use than wood stoves (lots of those about), cheaper to insure but far more expensive to run. And not one bit cleaner or greener than the old sawdust furnace that ran our home in Vancouver in 1958. Wood heat is banned in most cities as it the smoke is a health hazard.

[myata]

On 10/6/2022 at 9:56 AM, ExFlyer said:

2nd and 3rd growth timber is being cut and used to build the houses you are living in.

That is because the area around Vancouver looks what it looks and not even secondary (forget 1,000 or even 300-year old) primary forest. Because "replanting" is another fairy tale, a great Canadian feel-goodie story. Because in the reality you can't cut fast enough whatever comes up, new 30 to 40 year growth isn't enough and you'll cut it along with all you can get to till nothing's left. Like cod and salmon (soon).

Because sustainable means you take only as much as grows back max, and renewable means you can show the place in exactly the same condition and reasonable time. And you aren't interested in either, obviously. Your idea is a quick buck under the tune of some cute green story. As is Drux's great green pellets from waste. A perfect union of purpose.

On 10/6/2022 at 10:46 AM, ExFlyer said:

The problem with

Right. You don't have eyes, only ears. What eyes show you doesn't matter because there's some cute heartwarming story to soften your mind. Good luck.

 

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, myata said:

That is because the area around Vancouver looks what it looks and not even secondary (forget 1,000 or even 300-year old) primary forest. Because "replanting" is another fairy tale, a great Canadian feel-goodie story. Because in the reality you can't cut fast enough whatever comes up, new 30 to 40 year growth isn't enough and you'll cut it along with all you can get to till nothing's left. Like cod and salmon (soon).

Because sustainable means you take only as much as grows back max, and renewable means you can show the place in exactly the same condition and reasonable time. And you aren't interested in either, obviously. Your idea is a quick buck under the tune of some cute green story. As is Drux's great green pellets from waste. A perfect union of purpose.

Right. You don't have eyes, only ears. What eyes show you doesn't matter because there's some cute heartwarming story to soften your mind. Good luck.

 

Give it up myata, you could not be anymore wrong, mislead and, uninformed.

You picked a topic that you clearly have no understanding of. You do not know what you are talking about let alone defending.

Everyone here has told you that you re clueless about the lumber/timber industry about logging so suck it up and appreciate that we have taught you something.

FYI, I am from BC, the lower mainland. From Vancouver and the mountains and areas up the Fraser Valley look fantastic. Lived on Vancouver Island for 12 years. Flew all over BC in a helicopter for a dozen years. I know what un-logged areas look like and I know what re forested areas look like. I can assure you , the forests are living well.

Arguing with me is fruitless, I actually know the truth.sad you cannot comprehend it. You too quickly drink the koolaid and swallow it before you learn anything

Edited October 7, 2022 by ExFlyer

[Nefarious Banana]

27 minutes ago, myata said:

That is because the area around Vancouver looks what it looks and not even secondary (forget 1,000 or even 300-year old) primary forest. Because "replanting" is another fairy tale, a great Canadian feel-goodie story. Because in the reality you can't cut fast enough whatever comes up, new 30 to 40 year growth isn't enough and you'll cut it along with all you can get to till nothing's left.

Because sustainable means you take only as much as grows back max, and renewable means you can show the place in exactly the same condition and reasonable time. And you aren't interested in either, obviously. Your idea is a quick buck under the tune of some cute green story. As is Drux's great green pellets from waste. A perfect union of purpose.

You know nothing of which you speak and it shows with your every post. You are not worth the effort to rebuke your childish grasp of BC's forestry industry.  

[myata]

12 hours ago, herbie said:

I completely fail to see just how cutting down trees here, shipping pellets halfway around the world to keep CO2 emitting plants running is green in any way.

Because it is not (the simplest logical solution)? Look, UK has loads of (taxpayer) dough to hand out for amazing new green technologies.

And, there's just one such candidate that is supposed to make wonders from (careful, very large font) waste only. Wonderful, green? But of course!

One problem though: what if the technology wouldn't deliver as promised? Hiccups, if only from waste. So needed a little boost right before the critical round of funding. And guess where such boosts can always be gotten, at a fraction of cost and no questions asked.

How many times has it happened already? Or is it just the way we do business here and nothing to be ashamed of?

[myata]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

From Vancouver and the mountains and areas up the Fraser Valley look fantastic.

This fantastic? I can sign on or very close because this very much the picture anyone with clear eyes and clear mind can observe daily approaching Vancouver on air. If you don't it's not a problem with the objective reality, no. It's how you see, what you don't see and how you don't think about anything that wouldn't fit the story.

Edited October 7, 2022 by myata

[blackbird]

24 minutes ago, myata said:

This fantastic? I can sign on or very close because this very much the picture anyone with clear eyes and clear mind can observe daily approaching Vancouver on air. If you don't it's not a problem with the objective reality, no. It's how you see, what you don't see and how you don't think about anything that wouldn't fit the story.

That is an area that was logged which is a very tiny part of the forests in BC.  The forest industry is the main industry in BC and provides jobs for hundreds and thousands of people and makes homes and salaries possible for countless people.  Many towns would not even exist in BC if not for the forest industry.

Here is a typical photo of a forest in BC.  If you fly over the coast of BC as I have done a number of times from Vancouver to northwest BC you will see it is all forested and mountainous.  The clear cut you showed is actually a very tiny remote area and not the rule.  BC also has many preserved parks and preserved old growth forest areas.  Strathcona Park on Vancouver Island is a very large forested mountainous area which covers hundreds of square kilometres.  If man is to exist on earth and have any kind of life with all the conveniences, homes, cars, trucks, and raise families, he must have good paying jobs in the resource industry.  In BC, forestry is that industry.   If you want to live without the resource industry, you might try living in Pakistan or many other places in world.  You will be in abject poverty.  Your life span will probably not be very long and you will be in misery.  The forest industry in BC is one of those industries that pays for the health care system, old age pensions, and all the other the services we have.

Edited October 7, 2022 by blackbird

[myata]

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The clear cut you showed is actually a very tiny remote area and not the rule. 

You can see this kind of picture from any plane approaching Vancouver. One of us has to be blind or living in another reality. If the industry was sustainable in the enormous area of earlier clearcuts why would they still have to cut out old primary forests in small pieces?

And the rest is the old cod story, jobs towns all will pass, nothing learned can't learn change is not possible.

[ExFlyer]

26 minutes ago, myata said:

This fantastic? I can sign on or very close because this very much the picture anyone with clear eyes and clear mind can observe daily approaching Vancouver on air. If you don't it's not a problem with the objective reality, no. It's how you see, what you don't see and how you don't think about anything that wouldn't fit the story.

 

Know what you are posting myata LOL. 

You photos is of an area in Peachland in the Okanagan Valley on the west side of Okanagan Lake. Almost 400 kms from Vancouver.

 A lot of it for housing and recreational development and wild fire prevention.

https://infotel.ca/newsitem/replanting-with-deciduous-trees-might-help-protect-the-thompson-okanagan-from-wildfires/it86546

 

 

[ExFlyer]

4 minutes ago, myata said:

You can see this kind of picture from any plane approaching Vancouver. One of us has to be blind or living in another reality. If the industry was sustainable in the enormous area of earlier clearcuts why would they still have to cut out old primary forests in small pieces?

And the rest is the old cod story, jobs towns all will pass, nothing learned can't learn change is not possible.

myata, Peachland is 400 kms North East of Vancouver. You have great eye sight if you can see it LOL

And, if cut, it is re-planted.

Stop with the east coast fishing analogy already, it is starting to stink. LOL

[herbie]

Trying to create a "Tainted Timber Scandal" are you?

See those lines, they are the roads into the cuts, the roads are like 10 ft wide. So the clearings are not very big, they're in umpteen stages of regrowth and replanting and the shot was framed to make it look worse.
Fly over the province you'll see lots of scarring - all in various shades of green. The typical anti-logging clear cut photo always shows somewhere freshly logged and lacks scale so it seems worse than it is. And if only if you completely ignore the areas of standing timber can you consider it a 'clear cut' at all. Get off your butt and look and you'd see how it used to be - huge areas all logged at once now in stages of regrowth.

I've already pointed out that burning standing wood is not green, but burning waste without producing anything from it is a total loss.
Forestry practices in BC are evolving and improving but there's quite away to go yet involving improved sustainability, biodiversity, native involvement and appurtenance, land stability etc.

Do you have a clue about how fast the forest regrows? Like how every year after the melt, when I mow my lawn for the first time I cut hundreds of saplings popping out of my city lot's lawn? How those replanted cuts had to be cut back as they threaten the power lines after only 25 years? That the 1,000 tear old trees are few and they're protected?

 

 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, myata said:

You can see this kind of picture from any plane approaching Vancouver. One of us has to be blind or living in another reality. If the industry was sustainable in the enormous area of earlier clearcuts why would they still have to cut out old primary forests in small pieces?

And the rest is the old cod story, jobs towns all will pass, nothing learned can't learn change is not possible.

The photo I see of the forested mountains near Vancouver looks entirely different.   I am not sure where your picture was taken because you cannot see anything like that from the Vancouver area or lower mainland.  But there could be a clearcut somewhere in the area.  There are obviously some clearcuts scattered around the province.  Nothing wrong with that.  How else does anyone log?  But it is not excessive.  Check how many parks there are in BC  If you fly over the coastal region you will see most of it is untouched wilderness.  The Ministry of Forests does a good job managing the forest industry.

This photo is looking north from Vancouver where the mountains and forests are located.  No mountains or forest to the west, east or south because those are cities and farms or the ocean.  So where exactly was your photo taken?

Edited October 7, 2022 by blackbird

[herbie]

I really enjoyed the irony in that Marketplace piece where one of our Prince George MLAs was moaning how the logging affected his trap lines.

Oh the environmental concerns of a fur trapper in 2022... wah wah wahh!

Edited October 8, 2022 by herbie

[myata]

13 hours ago, herbie said:

Trying to create a

Why would one need to "create" anything when reality already has it all?

1. An "environmental" company burns real good quality trees (instead of "refuse") as green, renewable, bs fuel.

2. Provincial license office will let anyone for any reason with any bs claim raze last remaining pieces of old forest despite claims to green, renewable, sustainable, and etc.

These are facts. What else needs to be created here? We have seen it all with the cod and it'll play out again and again simply because we aren't doing anything new. We aren't doing, very obviously: if it's "renewable" and not another fairy tale, then you can take only what's been renewed and not an inch more. How hard is that?

[myata]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

So where exactly was your photo taken?

The photo was from the web. I can vouch to have seen and taken similar ones from planes to Vancouver on a number of occasions. One has to be blind, physically or mentally to not admit the obvious in your eyes reality.

[myata]

14 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Peachland is 400 kms North East of Vancouver.

Far out of sight means it doesn't happen? It means that this (picture) is "sustainable" and "renewable"? Great. So what was that "East coast fishing" analogy?

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, myata said:

Far out of sight means it doesn't happen? It means that this (picture) is "sustainable" and "renewable"? Great. So what was that "East coast fishing" analogy?

Then stop trying to imply that it was seen coming into Vancouver.

Your exaggerations, misconceptions, uninformed comments lies and premise is the only thing tainted.

From flying over BC, you cannot differentiate which areas have been re-planted either.

You keep on about the cod....East Coast.

Edited October 8, 2022 by ExFlyer

[herbie]

11 hours ago, myata said:

1. An "environmental" company burns real good quality trees (instead of "refuse") as green, renewable, bs fuel.

2. Provincial license office will let anyone for any reason with any bs claim raze last remaining pieces of old forest despite claims to green, renewable, sustainable, and etc.

1.  lie

2. lie

Lay off the bullshit and learn something about subjects you wish to discuss. What SumYunGuy says at a rally is not fact.

[Nefarious Banana]

12 hours ago, myata said:

Far out of sight means it doesn't happen? It means that this (picture) is "sustainable" and "renewable"? Great. So what was that "East coast fishing" analogy?

Troll . . . 

[myata]

14 hours ago, herbie said:

1.  lie

Like "fake news"? Confirmed by investigative reporters, with recorded evidence every step of the way? Sure have your way. In alternate mind realities laws of nature are helpless.

14 hours ago, herbie said:

2. lie

See above. That's a double, or square.

[myata]

22 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Then stop trying to imply that it was seen coming into Vancouver.

No implications needed. You and anyone can see very similar pictures flying into Vancouver only need working eyes and connected brain. And now you're saying that it's the same way out too. So, one of the two has be true: what you see with your own eyes; or what you hear about great sustainable renewable.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, myata said:

No implications needed. You and anyone can see very similar pictures flying into Vancouver only need working eyes and connected brain. And now you're saying that it's the same way out too. So, one of the two has be true: what you see with your own eyes; or what you hear about great sustainable renewable.

So sad. You have zero knowledge about this hence, zero credibility and you just make stuff up to try and defend your pitiful, uninformed position.

Sometimes, no, all the time, you need to learn from those that do know. A huge failing on your part.