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Is the Fantasy Genre Woke?


Boges

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4 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I imagine you read or at least saw LotR. Do you remember the part where Frodo offered Galadriel the ring? She wants it  The way she reacts tells us immediately how the ring will corrupt her. She goes dark. She fights back the urge to take the ring. She knows the ring's power will corrupt her and bring destruction to all around her.

That's not a Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue might behave more like all of a sudden and against any known canon be presented in a say a prequel as not an Elvin sorceress queen but this unstoppable warrior princess of her youth who climbs up mountains stabbing her sword in the rocks and is never in any real danger or offering cause for concern. A Mary Sue is bad writing. Galadriel in LotR was good writing. See the difference?

That's also character development from a character who's lived a further several thousand years where the Rings of Power are a thing. Corrupting is what the ring does. Gandalf also won't touch it in Fellowship. 

This Series takes place before all that. She's only motivated by Revenge by the death of her brother by the hands of Sauron. 

Is Legolas also a Mary Sue? Because the only thing, based on the first two Episodes, that would indicate that is her easily defeating a Troll in the first few minutes of the pilot. 

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

What about the skin-colour of Harfoots, Elves and Dwarves make LOTR's work? 

Do you also oppose such white-washing as making the The Ancient One in Dr. Strange a White woman? I've read that Giancarlo Esposito of Breaking Bad, Mandalorian and the Boys may become the MCU's Professor X. I can imagine how many kittens Fanboys will want to punch over that. 

Woke can be a thing. It can't be the only thing. The first requires good writing to make it work. The second only red flags the fact that good writing won't be a concern here. Woke can't overwhelm the story and characters to the point bad writers are allowed to make the story about their agenda.

Do you remember that comic they were about to bring out where the superheroes super powers were woke traits like Snowflake and Safe Space? Didn't fly. Died quick.

How about the last Terminator or the all girl Ghostbusters or Birds of Prey.

Wikipedia tells us Terminator: Dark Fate was one the biggest bombs of all time.

The other two and those like it put truth to the maxim "Get woke. Go Broke." 

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1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

Woke can be a thing. It can't be the only thing. The first requires good writing to make it work. The second only red flags the fact that good writing won't be a concern here. Woke can't overwhelm the story and characters to the point bad writers are allowed to make the story about their agenda.

Do you remember that comic they were about to bring out where the superheroes super powers were woke traits like Snowflake and Safe Space? Didn't fly. Died quick.

How about the last Terminator or the all girl Ghostbusters or Birds of Prey.

Wikipedia tells us Terminator: Dark Fate was one the biggest bombs of all time.

The other two and those like it put truth to the maxim "Get woke. Go Broke." 

Then there's a show like Ms Marvel. An MCU show about a Muslim teen who gets Super Powers from a family relic which actually has quite positive reviews. 

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ms_marvel/s01

I didn't make it past the first episode, not my thing, but def not a bomb. 

The race of the characters in question have little baring on the quality of this particular show, unless you get upset about seeing POC on a show based on a fiction that didn't previously have them. 

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6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Is Legolas also a Mary Sue? Because the only thing, based on the first two Episodes, that would indicate that is her easily defeating a Troll in the first few minutes of the pilot. 

Aragon isn't. Legolas is a sidekick in LotR. He's an accessory. He does get fleshed out a bit better in the movie trilogy version of the Hobbit.

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Just now, Infidel Dog said:

Aragon isn't. Legolas is a sidekick in LotR. He's an accessory. He does get fleshed out a bit better in the movie trilogy version of the Hobbit.

In the 3rd Hobbit movie you see Legolas do this. 

I would suggest you won't see that in this new LotR show. 

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1 minute ago, Boges said:

Then there's a show like Ms Marvel. An MCU show about a Muslim teen who gets Super Powers from a family relic which actually has quite positive reviews. 

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/ms_marvel/s01

I didn't make it past the first episode, not my thing, but def not a bomb. 

The race of the characters in question have little baring on the quality of this particular show, unless you get upset about seeing POC on a show based on a fiction that didn't previously have them. 

I did make it past the first one.

I didn't mind the first episode. It was basically the story used in 'Bend it like Beckham' but with Muslims playing the Hindu parts. I liked Bend it like Beckham. I like the Ms Marvel actress. But yeah it kind of lost it ep by ep to the point I won't be there season 2 if there is one.

She-Hulk is the one taking a lot of flack right now. I watch it because I've been a fan of the actress since Orphan Black but it's getting harder to stick with it every ep.

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3 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Woke can be a thing. It can't be the only thing. The first requires good writing to make it work. The second only red flags the fact that good writing won't be a concern here. Woke can't overwhelm the story and characters to the point bad writers are allowed to make the story about their agenda.

It doesn't bother me to see a black elf. When almost immediately he's shown to be he's romancing a white woman I was like "woke agenda". When the only dwarf and his wife were also interracial it was just like, really? These people really want to rub everyone's face in how woke and virtuous they are.

It's like the Wheel of Time series by amazon. They so hyped up all the female roles it go patently silly. In one episode a female warrior who is nine months pregnant and actually going into labour bounces around like a ninja as she kills a number of armed male soldiers. Now I've never been a pregnant woman in labour but from what I've seen, read and heard of it you're not going to be doing anything very athletic. I don't care how determined and well-trained you are.

I might add that the writers clearly only saw violence as the way to indicate a character is strong. In the books, these are strong female roles, but not, for the most part, physically so. The writers clearly felt that only violence, only using swords or daggers to defeat someone made you strong. Shitty writers. And frankly, kind of sexist.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I think fantasy has so permeated the minds of our latest two generations that many of them are assuming political attitudes and opinions based on ideas which can not work in real life.

Ideas and concepts they obviously got from consuming hundreds or maybe thousands of hours of fantasy fare.

And because these individuals are so invested and experienced in the fantasy realm, they become tough minded little nuggets of nonsense who insist their fantasy view of things is the best view and the best path for all of U.S. to follow.

What can be done to save our civilization from them?

😥

Edited by DONKIROCK
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Now, as the story of House of Dragons has progressed, the decision to make the Valerions a black family is a practical creative choice and not particularly woke. 

SPOILER FOR THE SHOW!!!! 

Laenor Velaryon is betrothed to the heir Rhaenyra Targaryen. Laenor is Gay and they are unable to produce an heir. Do they not have Turkey basters in Westeros? 

So Rhaenyra has Bastard children to Harwin Strong and passes them off as Laenor's children. 

Jacaerys is their heir to the Iron Throne and Lucerys Velaryon is the heir to Driftmark the seat of the Velaryons. These children are not bi-racial and don't have the trademark platinum hair. 

So the question of their lineage is the basis of this Dance of Dragon the series is based on. Making the Velaryon's black makes the lie Rhaenyra is trying to pass off a lot more galling than making Joffery Baratheon King when he's obviously a Lannister Bastard. 

They go off the Woke wagon when Corly's brother tries to claim he should be heir and has his head cut off by Rhaenyra's Uncle/Husband Daemon because he claimed her children are bastards and she is a whore. 

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