Why You Should Be a Nationalist

[Yzermandius19]

26 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Confederation is an agreement of the Crown.  If you are disloyal to confederation you are disloyal to the Crown.

incorrect

not how it works

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The left doesn't believe...

 The left is a kaleidoscope that the right simply can't understand. It doesn't even want to try.

[Yzermandius19]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 The left is a kaleidoscope that the right simply can't understand. It doesn't even want to try.

the right knows the left better than the left knows the right

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the right knows the left better than the left knows the right

No, we're like aliens from different planets...if not dimensions.

I don't even want to know you fucking people anymore. Just leave please. Now.

[Yzermandius19]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, we're like aliens from different planets...if not dimensions.

I don't even want to know you fucking people anymore. Just leave please. Now.

proving my point

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

 The left is a kaleidoscope that the right simply can't understand. It doesn't even want to try.

I used to be a lefty for a long time.  I know exactly how they think. 

The left are filled with so much guilt, shame, and self-hatred that they won't stand up for themselves for fear of offending someone. 

They think nationalism is evil.   Sometimes it can be if don't wrong, but the answer isn't to abandon any sense of nationhood while letting imported people keep theirs, be proud and celebrate theirs while Canadians hang their heads at all the terrible things our country has done while ignoring the fact that we're one of the greatest societies in human history, which should be celebrated.

Instead we're too busy tearing down statues and renaming streets and feeling bad about celebrating Canada Day.  This is what weak self-hating losers do.  It's pathetic.

Canada doesn't have ethnic nationalism we have civic nationalism and anyone can join our family, that's part of what makes Canada great.  Wave the flag and be proud.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[cougar]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Your duty is to obey the Queen's statutes.  Bend the knee and kiss her feet traitor.

You may want to start kissing the feet of all First Nations you come across.

 

[cougar]

17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I never said they weren't.  Anyone who doesn't defend the best interests of this country is a traitor.

You may want to start with those higher up then first.  

Imagine you had someone swearing an oath to the crown, only to find out he has been lied to and the elite establishment he thought he was entering to be a common brothel.   Would you expect this person to be still putting faith in the crown and uphold his oath?

Loyalty goes both ways.

[Moonlight Graham]

43 minutes ago, cougar said:

You may want to start kissing the feet of all First Nations you come across.

 

Why?  They didn't create Canada. They helped a little bit. They're a part of the Canadian family like everyone else.  Nobody in the family is better or worse than the other, except the traitors who enjoy all the privileges Canada offers but have no intention of defending it when sh!t hits the fan.  You're a mooch from the sounds of it.  Tell me I'm wrong.

[Moonlight Graham]

43 minutes ago, cougar said:

You may want to start with those higher up then first.  

Imagine you had someone swearing an oath to the crown, only to find out he has been lied to and the elite establishment he thought he was entering to be a common brothel.   Would you expect this person to be still putting faith in the crown and uphold his oath?

Loyalty goes both ways.

A contract is a contract. If you don't like the terms then bye.  You're very lucky I'm not the Prime Minister.  Mooching would not be permitted, nor would MP's who break their oaths of office.

You did not swear an oath to the government of Canada, you swore an oath of allegiance to the Queen of Canada, who is the physical embodiment of the country.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

 Just leave please. Now.

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel

a revanchist right wing counterrevolution rising

without mercy, nor quarter, nor succour

the hunters shall become the hunted

and they will be hunted to the ends of the earth, every last one of them

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

...........you swore an oath of allegiance to the Queen of Canada, who is the physical embodiment of the country.

OK.   I have to go back and check what the contents of the oath were, so I know which parts I have decided to disregard if any.   From what I remember I swore to follow the laws of the country which I did and still do.   I was also told it is my obligation to vote.  I  do that, but since the choices are limited and the parties do what they want, not what they promise, it seems a total waste of my time.

We need to make all government officials take that oath and if they are found in violation of it - kicked out with no pension.

[Moonlight Graham]

26 minutes ago, cougar said:

OK.   I have to go back and check what the contents of the oath were, so I know which parts I have decided to disregard if any.   From what I remember I swore to follow the laws of the country which I did and still do.   I was also told it is my obligation to vote.  I  do that, but since the choices are limited and the parties do what they want, not what they promise, it seems a total waste of my time.

We need to make all government officials take that oath and if they are found in violation of it - kicked out with no pension.

I agree with you on the 2nd paragraph. Unless I'm mistaken they do swear an oath. They are mostly all selfish careerists, narcissists, and sociopaths.  A normal person wouldn't put their family through that media meat-grinder, unless they felt a patriotic duty to serve their country and countrymen, which they don't.

Here's the recent oath of citizenship. I think recently they may have added something about not punching aboriginals in the face or something.  As a naturalized Canadian we welcome you and all into the family who uphold this oath:

“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.”

[cougar]

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I agree with you on the 2nd paragraph. Unless I'm mistaken they do swear an oath. They are mostly all selfish careerists, narcissists, and sociopaths.  A normal person wouldn't put their family through that media meat-grinder, unless they felt a patriotic duty to serve their country and countrymen, which they don't.

Here's the recent oath of citizenship. I think recently they may have added something about not punching aboriginals in the face or something.  As a naturalized Canadian we welcome you and all into the family who uphold this oath:

“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.”

Yeah....that's what it was!  So just as I remembered, following the laws of the country and fulfilling citizenship duties like voting were in it, and this part I still stand by.   Not for the queen's or Canada's sake but for my own peace of mind.

Now what is your interpretation of "to be faithful to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors" ????

To me this is the bothersome part, as I neither know what she might ask of me; nor do I feel obliged to do anything for her or her pedophile son !

 

Revised oath for Canadian MP's :

“I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to All My Constituents, Their heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully serve them while observing the laws of Canada to fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.”

Edited May 26, 2022 by cougar

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I used to be a lefty for a long time.  I know exactly how they think. 

The left are filled with so much guilt, shame, and self-hatred that they won't stand up for themselves for fear of offending someone.

I'm not like this at all so either you never were a lefty or you're a self-loathing right-winger who is projecting.

[Moonlight Graham]

53 minutes ago, cougar said:

Now what is your interpretation of "to be faithful to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors" ????

To me this is the bothersome part, as I neither know what she might ask of me; nor do I feel obliged to do anything for her or her pedophile son !

Canada is not an absolute monarchy. It is a constitutional monarchy. The Queen of Canada can't, on her own accord, tell you or anyone else to do anything.  She can't make any laws on her own accord. That was the case 1000 years ago in Britain, but no longer.

Technically the monarch still signs off on all laws (or rather, her representive the GG), but by convention, and through precedents like the Magna Carta and the Glorious Revolution etc, the monarch no longer decides laws, foreign policy, or has any real power. The Queen is a rubber stamp and the laws are decided by Parliament who represent the people, then given to her (well, the GG) to give her royal assent.  All laws go through her, on advice of Parliament.

She is the head of state. No actual governing power except in emergency reserve power where Parliament may turn into tyrants and she can refuse to sign off on their laws.  But this has rarely if ever happened and would cause a constitutional crisis.

The Queen is the physical embodiment of The Crown and the country.  She is a physical symbol of the state.  The sovereign.  So when you swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen, you're swearing an oath to her realm (Canada) and her laws and institutions. It's a weird concept, but it is what it is.  It's like swearing allegiance to a flag: it's just a symbol representing the country.

The people who think such an oath of allegiance means she can boss them around is ridiculous since this is no longer the case since her powers are limited by the constitution.  Through millenia of civil war in Britain, when it was still an absolute monarchy and the monarch behaved like a tyrant and the people rebelled, the monarch now does what the people say, not the other way around.  They are technically the Queen's laws, but really they are ours and she rubber stamps her assent based on the will of Parliament.

The people who still don't agree don't have to take the oath.

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/crown-canada/monarch.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/crown-canada/about.html

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[Moonlight Graham]

There's some on this board who will spread misinformation about our government and Crown, but I suspect they are either Russian or Chinese agents trying to sow discord, or simply fools who need a civics lesson.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The Queen is the physical embodiment of The Crown and the country.  She is a physical symbol of the state.  The sovereign.  So when you swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen, you're swearing an oath to her realm (Canada) and her laws and institutions. It's a weird concept, but it is what it is.  It's like swearing allegiance to a flag: it's just a symbol representing the country.

There's a little more to the weirdness than just this. The crowns that sat on the heads of kings and queens represented a divine right to rule that was granted by God. So when you swore allegiance to the crown you basically professed a belief in God.

I get that we don't live like that anymore but, well, just try taking out the preamble to Canada's Constitution as an exercise in separating church from state and see where it gets you.  Good luck.

In return for their allegiance to and belief in the system I think ordinary people were encouraged to assume that God would keep an eye on the ruler and guarantee they'd be fairly and justly ruled lest the ruler suffer in hell for abusing the people they ruled. Bwahahahahaha is all I can say to that.

That said, the people who govern now still swear on a bible to do so rightly and honourably and nobody, nationalist conservatives especially, seem to overly-doubtful or concerned about the veracity of it all.

Edited May 27, 2022 by eyeball

[cougar]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.......The Queen is a rubber stamp and the laws are decided by Parliament who represent the people, then given to her (well, the GG) to give her royal assent.  All laws go through her, on advice of Parliament.

 

2........So when you swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen, you're swearing an oath to her realm (Canada) and her laws and institutions. It's a weird concept, but it is what it is.  It's like swearing allegiance to a flag: it's just a symbol representing the country.

3.........The people who think such an oath of allegiance means she can boss them around is ridiculous since this is no longer the case since her powers are limited by the constitution. 

 

 

1. So does the Governor General communicate with Buckingham and ask approval for Canadian laws to be passed?  What happens if approval is not granted?

2. This seems to make any mention of allegiance to the Queen redundant since the new citizens swear to abide by the laws of the country

3. This is the confusing part. To me, it sounds like if the Queen declares war on whatever state, the citizens agree to fight to death for her.

Monarchy may be a motivational element when citizens take pride in their heritage , the wars won by previous kings and queens, the fact their nation goes that far back in time and the successors of those kings and queens being alive today may be reassuring.

On the other hand, kings, queens and their heirs and successors are no more than regular people and are prone to making the same mistakes and committing the same sins.  Having them retain their status, after they have sinned is untenable. 

Having elected premiers and presidents is a good thing, except most of them, knowing they are on top for a short time, take advantage of it for personal gains.

 

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, cougar said:

Having elected premiers and presidents is a good thing, except most of them, knowing they are on top for a short time, take advantage of it for personal gains.

So you don't buy into this idea that swearing on a stack of hooey will keep them honest either?

[cougar]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

So you don't buy into this idea that swearing on a stack of hooey will keep them honest either?

They seem to have no issue with lying to God, us and to one another.

In my view,  none of them believes in decency or the afterlife, so they just scramble in this life to get a maximum amount of pleasure and money, without any concern for their legacy  and reputation.

Edited May 27, 2022 by cougar

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, cougar said:

They seem to have no issue with lying to God, us and to one another.

Neither God or us seem to have much issue with being lied to.  Otherwise we'd do something about it.

Quote

In my view,  none of them believes in decency or the afterlife, so they just scramble in this life to get a maximum amount of pleasure and money, without any concern for their legacy  and reputation.

And having that as an example to follow is probably why so many people behave much the same way. 

[Dougie93]

7 hours ago, cougar said:

1. So does the Governor General communicate with Buckingham and ask approval for Canadian laws to be passed?  What happens if approval is not granted?

The Queen does not adjudicate the law

the final arbiter of the law is the Supreme Court

the role of the Queen is to solve constitutional crises

if it is not clear by the election who has Parliamentary Supremacy to form the government

then the Queen decides

the Governor General is the stand in for the Queen

first you go to the Governor General

if that does not resolve the dispute, then you can go to Buckingham Palace for a final decision

it will be a binary choice, two parties claiming to have Parliamentary Supremacy

so either the Queen will let the GG's decision stand, or the Queen could choose to overrule the GG

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dougie93

[Moonlight Graham]

13 hours ago, cougar said:

1. So does the Governor General communicate with Buckingham and ask approval for Canadian laws to be passed?  What happens if approval is not granted?

2. This seems to make any mention of allegiance to the Queen redundant since the new citizens swear to abide by the laws of the country

3. This is the confusing part. To me, it sounds like if the Queen declares war on whatever state, the citizens agree to fight to death for her.

Monarchy may be a motivational element when citizens take pride in their heritage , the wars won by previous kings and queens, the fact their nation goes that far back in time and the successors of those kings and queens being alive today may be reassuring.

On the other hand, kings, queens and their heirs and successors are no more than regular people and are prone to making the same mistakes and committing the same sins.  Having them retain their status, after they have sinned is untenable. 

Having elected premiers and presidents is a good thing, except most of them, knowing they are on top for a short time, take advantage of it for personal gains.

 

1.  Not as I'm aware.  Why would they care? They're just a rubber stamp anyways.  The GG just signs off on whatever laws Parliament decides. If some unelected monarch started deciding laws again Canadians would lose their sh!t.  The only time Buckingham might care is during a crisis where the PM goes bonkers and wants to implement some really crazy laws like Hitler or something.  So the GG/ Crown acts as a check on the power of the legislature, which is a good thing.  But this hasn't really happened and would cause a constitutional crisis. By convention the Crown/gg defers to the will of Parliament because it's democratic.

2. But you need to remember that the Queen, who represents the Crown, is the physical embodiment of the country.  This is symbolic. So when you swear allegiance to the Queen, you're really swearing allegiance to the country itself.  The Queen is the head of state.  It's like when Americans pledge allegiance to the flag.  It's just a flag, a piece of cloth, but it is symbolic of the country.

Also remember that her title is Queen of Canada.  Queen of England is an entirely separate legal title.  Don't believe the British loyalists on this forum who spread misinformation.  She is our Queen.  The UK has absolutely no legal authority over Canada.

3.  Well, the Queen can only declare war on the advice of Parliament.  She's the commander in chief i believe but has no actual authority to make any policy/war decisions.  Again, at this point her role is symbolic.  Because she isn't democratically elected the monarchy no longer has any legitimacy to make decisions/ policy/laws in a democracy. If you're fighting to the death for her it really just means you're fighting to the death for the country, "the Queen's realm", which again is just a symbolic notion. Ie: Crown corporations aren't really hers, they're ours.  The Queen is no longer our master.

If migrants don't want to partake in the traditional Canadian heritage they don't have to come to Canada or take the oath and all the rights and privileges that being Canadian entails them.   The choice to move here or not is theirs, and they are welcome to come & join our family if they follow the rules, pledge loyalty, and positively contribute to our nation.  I certainly would never have the nerve to move to whichever country you're from and start telling the locals to change their traditions and rules for me.

My relatives risked their lives and bore horrific costs and suffering (which I will not get into, but they last until this day, through every generation and member of my family) by defending this country from fascists & other enemies so that you and I can enjoy the freedom and prosperity in Canada that we do today.  I honour their sacrifices by continuing to defend this country from those who mean it harm in whatever way I can.  So when someone like yourself says that they wish to take advantage of all the privileges Canada provides them but the moment they would be asked to defend this country from threats they would simply flee, it tells me you're just a Canadian of convenience and you're literally mooching off of the terrible costs my family has had to bear for your freedom.  To say I find this offensive would be an understatement.  My hope is I've been able to convince you to honour your oath and join our family as a proud and loyal member that will help build and defend this great nation.  And I agree with you about our politicians.  They are self-serving traitors with no honour.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Moonlight Graham

[cougar]

30 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.............So when you swear allegiance to the Queen, you're really swearing allegiance to the country itself.  The Queen is the head of state.  It's like when Americans pledge allegiance to the flag.  It's just a flag, a piece of cloth, but it is symbolic of the country.

Also remember that her title is Queen of Canada.  Queen of England is an entirely separate legal title.  Don't believe the British loyalists on this forum who spread misinformation.  She is our Queen.  The UK has absolutely no legal authority over Canada.

2........ If you're fighting to the death for her it really just means you're fighting to the death for the country, "the Queen's realm", which again is just a symbolic notion. Ie: Crown corporations aren't really hers, they're ours.  The Queen is no longer our master.

3....... I certainly would never have the nerve to move to whichever country you're from and start telling the locals to change their traditions and rules for me.

4........So when someone like yourself says that they wish to take advantage of all the privileges Canada provides them but the moment they would be asked to defend this country from threats they would simply flee, it tells me you're just a Canadian of convenience and you're literally mooching off of the terrible costs my family has had to bear for your freedom. 

5..........My hope is I've been able to convince you to honour your oath and join our family as a proud and loyal member that will help build and defend this great nation.  And I agree with you about our politicians.  They are self-serving traitors with no honour.

1.   Why don't we then just do like the States do?  A flag is much easier to understand  - it has no heirs and successors, no chance to commit a despicable act on its own.

2.  The vision of the "queen" cannot motivate me to fight, neither the endless scams our society is built on.   "Building" is a stretchy term.  I can see how one can build a one lane bridge over a big river in a small community and make a difference; I cannot see the value of large multi-lane bridges, skyscrapers, pipelines, large industrial developments, even vehicle manufacturing at the rates it is now.  To me it is destruction; not building anything but destroying something that had  greater value.

3. Didn't your ancestors do exactly that when they arrived on this continent?   You do not speak Ojibway or Mohawk or whatever language and live by their established traditions.  As it turned out, those locals were put in residential schools to either assimilate or die.

4.  The "advantage taking" may actually be the other way around.  What did I take advantage of?  I hike the mountains, fish the rivers, always go as far away from other users as I can.  I pay my taxes and generally speaking have not become all that much richer after moving here - I have a car and a small house and a corresponding loan and mortgage.  I took advantage of the opportunity to become a slave it seems.  

5.  Don't know what this even means.  I follow the laws of the country and in this regard I am fulfilling my oath.  Am I going to embrace all aspects of the country? Probably not.

Edited May 27, 2022 by cougar