15$ a hour ontario minamum wage

[EastCanada90]

announced yesterday by ford.. whats everyones opinions?

[Boges]

In this climate, $15 is certainly the bare minimum you should be paying anyone in Ontario. 

McDonalds already pays that. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Boges

[Shady]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

In this climate, $15 is certainly the bare minimum you should be paying anyone in Ontario. 

McDonalds already pays that. 

I would argue the exact opposite.  Most businesses have barely been allowed to keep their doors open, and now we’re asking them to pay higher wages after trying to stay afloat for the past 18 months.  It should be delayed until January 1st 2023.

[Argus]

Ford keeps doing stuff he thinks will make him more popular with the Left. And it's working! Before this announcement they hated him with the white hot passion of a thousand blazing suns! Now they only hate him with the white hot passion of 999 blazing suns!

Meanwhile, the people who actually voted for him are not so happy, especially small businessmen.

 

 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

In this climate, $15 is certainly the bare minimum you should be paying anyone in Ontario. 

McDonalds already pays that. 

Do you know what the cost are in Ontario outside major cities like Toronto and Ottawa?

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, Argus said:

Do you know what the cost are in Ontario outside major cities like Toronto and Ottawa?

They're increasingly insane there too..

[Argus]

18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

They're increasingly insane there too..

The cost of living is a factor of what money people have. Raising the pay rate just raises the cost of living in a never ending cycle. All the stores and restaurants have to pay more so now they have to charge more. And that goes on up the line. You think the jobs that used to pay $15hr before the Liberals started their rapid pay raises are still making that? Of course not! They all had to go up by several dollars too.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

They all had to go up by several dollars too.

I blame housing prices

[Boges]

14 hours ago, Argus said:

The cost of living is a factor of what money people have. Raising the pay rate just raises the cost of living in a never ending cycle. All the stores and restaurants have to pay more so now they have to charge more. And that goes on up the line. You think the jobs that used to pay $15hr before the Liberals started their rapid pay raises are still making that? Of course not! They all had to go up by several dollars too.

The price of living has long since blown passed a scenario where $15 is even a livable wage. 

[Boges]

16 hours ago, Shady said:

I would argue the exact opposite.  Most businesses have barely been allowed to keep their doors open, and now we’re asking them to pay higher wages after trying to stay afloat for the past 18 months.  It should be delayed until January 1st 2023.

Well guess what? Paying South of $15/hour is also a major culprit in the labour shortage seen in the service sector. 

[Argus]

18 minutes ago, Boges said:

The price of living has long since blown passed a scenario where $15 is even a livable wage. 

In Toronto, maybe. But minimum wage jobs are primarily staffed by young people just starting out and still living at home anyway. Only 1% of minimum wage workers are over 25 in the US. Not sure of Canada since the huge number of refugees and immigrants might make the situation somewhat different.

[Argus]

29 minutes ago, Boges said:

Well guess what? Paying South of $15/hour is also a major culprit in the labour shortage seen in the service sector. 

So are government handouts and an entitlement culture.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Argus

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

So are government handouts and an entitlement culture.

Wages need to catch up to the cost of living. 

When we talk about entitlements, 30 or 40 years ago, people could actually live off a low skilled job. That's impossible now. 

There was an article this week that it's actually impossible for someone making $75k to buy a home in Toronto. 
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/you-make-75-000-per-year-will-you-ever-be-able-to-afford-a-toronto-house-1.5647845

There are a variety of reasons for that, but paying service sector workers $15/hour is not one of them. 

[Argus]

Interesting information on minimum wage workers. It seems that 92% do NOT live in low income households. 

“The fact is most minimum wage earners are teenagers or young adults, under the age of 25, and many live with their parents,” said Ben Eisen, co-author of the study, “Who Earns the Minimum Wage in Canada?” by the fiscally conservative think tank.

For that demographic, minimum wage jobs are generally “a first step towards higher paid employment … younger minimum wage earners do not typically remain minimum wage workers for long; as they gain experience their salaries rise.”

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-new-study-breaks-down-how-minimum-wage-hikes-dont-help-the-poor

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

Wages need to catch up to the cost of living. 

When we talk about entitlements, 30 or 40 years ago, people could actually live off a low skilled job. That's impossible now. 

There was an article this week that it's actually impossible for someone making $75k to buy a home in Toronto. 
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/you-make-75-000-per-year-will-you-ever-be-able-to-afford-a-toronto-house-1.5647845

There are a variety of reasons for that, but paying service sector workers $15/hour is not one of them. 

Then maybe Toronto should have its own minimum wage because basing everyone's economic rules around Toronto screws up the rest of the province.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Then maybe Toronto should have its own minimum wage because basing everyone's economic rules around Toronto screws up the rest of the province.

The Toronto cost of living reverberates. 

In Guelph, an hour outside of Toronto. Rentals are $1,500/month plus.

Can't pay that and comfortably live on Minimum Wage. 

https://rentals.ca/guelph?bbox=-80.40233,43.46956,-80.07103,43.60719&sort=cheapest

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Boges

[Boges]

I've heard this, apology for no cite, but the effective Minimum wage is about $17/hour in any place that's worth living. 

Any job an adult would apply for is already paying more than $15/hour. This is much ado about nothing. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Boges

[Argus]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

I've heard this, apology for no cite, but the effective Minimum wage is about $17/hour in any place that's worth living. 

Any job an adult would apply for is already paying more than $15/hour. This is much ado about nothing. 

Then why do you support it? Especially given almost everyone holding these jobs lives at home with mom and dad?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Argus

[Boges]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

Then why do you support it?

I'm ambivalent. Ultimately the market will decide. 

This is a naked vote grab for the Ontario PCs. 

But the fact that wages are criminal inadequate compared to the price of housing does need to be addressed. And increasing supply isn't the complete answer either, wages need to catch up. 

It'll be funny next year, when companies pass on Cost-of-Living raises. Will companies try and do the typical 2% when inflation this year has easily been 5-10% or more?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Boges

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

I'm ambivalent. Ultimately the market will decide. 

This is a naked vote grab for the Ontario PCs. 

It's unlikely to help many in the demographic which votes Tory.

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

But the fact that wages are criminal inadequate compared to the price of housing does need to be addressed.

The high price of housing is due to the low supply, which in turn is due to incompetent local and provincial leadership which has allowed the proliferation of regulations and fees to deter the building and buying of the kinds of homes people want to live in and the supply of rental housing.

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

It's unlikely to help many in the demographic which votes Tory.

If the US is any indication. Low income, Low education, Low skill people actually do vote Conservative. 

[Argus]

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

If the US is any indication. Low income, Low education, Low skill people actually do vote Conservative. 

Actually, it's rural people who vote Republican. Religious people in particular, who are vulnerable to fearmongering and rabble rousing about gays, transgenders and abortion. And I wouldn't call Republicans conservatives or they'd have some interest in fiscal responsibility.

Although there's certainly something to be said about the effectiveness of the political indoctrination post-secondary students are subjected to and how that impacts their voting patterns. I wouldn't call people 'educated' though, just because they have a degree. I've met and dealt with too many blithering imbeciles with degrees. Most of our politicians have them, after all, including Trudeau.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

22 minutes ago, Boges said:

If the US is any indication. Low income, Low education, Low skill people actually do vote Conservative. 

 

Perhaps refer to them as racist, as well. That really seems to work.

[Shady]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Well guess what? Paying South of $15/hour is also a major culprit in the labour shortage seen in the service sector. 

Ok.  So what?  Businesses are free to offer more to attract workers if they need to.  But they shouldn’t be forced.  Not during an ongoing pandemic when businesses are still operating under some restrictions.  Not every business is Costco or Amazon.  Actually most aren’t.  Most are small businesses.  Basing economic policy on the assumption that every businesses is some big corporation is illogical and destructive.  All you’re doing is continuing policy that’s been a boon to the rich and powerful and a albatross to small and medium sized businesses.  Stop it.  Stop hating the middle class with your ridiculous policies.

[Boges]

21 minutes ago, Shady said:

Ok.  So what?  Businesses are free to offer more to attract workers if they need to.  But they shouldn’t be forced.  Not during an ongoing pandemic when businesses are still operating under some restrictions.  Not every business is Costco or Amazon.  Actually most aren’t.  Most are small businesses.  Basing economic policy on the assumption that every businesses is some big corporation is illogical and destructive.  All you’re doing is continuing policy that’s been a boon to the rich and powerful and a albatross to small and medium sized businesses.  Stop it.  Stop hating the middle class with your ridiculous policies.

In this market, people who make $15/hour are not Middle Class. 

Why would anyone work for some small business for $12/hour, when Amazon, Walmart, McDonalds are already paying North of $15/hour?

When we create a market where businesses can pay as low as they want, then people are forced to use the government to subsidize their income. Food banks, etc. Or just live on the dole full time. Which is the decision many people are making.