Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Let me sum up this entire thread for you

It's great that you like Ev's. For a handful of people it's an option that makes a lot of sense and that they will prefer. And they should absolutely have access to those options as consumers.

But for the vast majority of people EVS are a poor option or no option. The technology just isn't there.

Amusingly some of the Chinese hybrids look like they would give us about 90% 95% of what EVs do in the way of pollution reduction and would be adaptable in a much wider scale. But Evie's just aren't a practical solution for the vast majority of Canadians at this time given the current technology. But I'm glad you enjoy yours and absolutely support your right to buy a vehicle that's right for you

I'm open to hybrids. My other car is a hybrid and is very good. 

But the current PHEV selection is very poor. Most are just normal ICE vehicles with a battery for weight and don't provide much in the way of the Electric only range. 

It is an emerging technology which is why I'll lease this one, as to not lock myself into a car that may be quite out-of-date by the end of the decade. 

[herbie]

The 50km range of current PHEVs is adequate. You worry about range, you're not using it for work and errands.
And BEVs are hitting 500km ranges these days.

And look at the price of ICE vehicles - they didn't reduce EV prices, they raised ICE prices a lot. Telsas the only EV volume builder and they took the moves by others to hike prices several times now.
Another govt plan that turned into a corporate gougefest.

[Boges]

14 hours ago, herbie said:

And look at the price of ICE vehicles - they didn't reduce EV prices, they raised ICE prices a lot. Telsas the only EV volume builder and they took the moves by others to hike prices several times now.
Another govt plan that turned into a corporate gougefest.

The thing about PHEVs are that they usually aren't much cheaper than full EVs.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

The thing about PHEVs are that they usually aren't much cheaper than full EVs.

The price isn't the biggest problem. Charging is the biggest problem

People living in apartment buildings don't have access to charging that is anywhere near as practical or as easy as just filling up a gas tank. Even if you live at home and are willing to pay for the upgrade it's far less convenient.

If you're going on a road trip having to stop for extended periods of time while the battery charges is extremely undesirable, especially considering the fact that it might be that when you get there to the next charging station it's damaged or out of service.

This is before we get into any of the maintenance or insurance issues or the fire risk

At least with a plug-in hybrid if for some reason you haven't got time to charge it there's no problem with stopping and topping up the tank and keep going. 

And for the vast majority of people they are still going to deliver more than 90% of the savings on fuel. Most people don't travel more than 50 km in a day

 

[herbie]

6 hours ago, Boges said:

The thing about PHEVs are that they usually aren't much cheaper than full EVs.

Problem with all hybrids is two motors instead of one. The battery continues to be the most expensive part and the size of it in a PHEV is the only saving.

[Boges]

On 5/21/2025 at 1:28 PM, CdnFox said:

The price isn't the biggest problem. Charging is the biggest problem

People living in apartment buildings don't have access to charging that is anywhere near as practical or as easy as just filling up a gas tank. Even if you live at home and are willing to pay for the upgrade it's far less convenient.

If you're going on a road trip having to stop for extended periods of time while the battery charges is extremely undesirable, especially considering the fact that it might be that when you get there to the next charging station it's damaged or out of service.

This is before we get into any of the maintenance or insurance issues or the fire risk

At least with a plug-in hybrid if for some reason you haven't got time to charge it there's no problem with stopping and topping up the tank and keep going. 

And for the vast majority of people they are still going to deliver more than 90% of the savings on fuel. Most people don't travel more than 50 km in a day

We've gone over this. If you can't charge at home, EVs aren't for you, yet. Lots of Condo units are making them available, but it's still not the norm. We'll need more public charging stations for it to be viable for condo dwellers. 

But yes, PHEV could be a good option for condo dwellers as the internal ICE engine is able to charge the battery as with other Hybrids. Plenty of towns have access to Stage 2 chargers for free or nominal costs now. Those are perfect for PHEVs. 

The upfront cost of adding an EV charging set up at a single family home isn't much. My new car actually came with a dual 110 and 240 charger in the trunk. So all you need is a mechanism to get a NEMA 40 plug within 10-15 feet of where you will park the car. 

I have not yet seen my insurance balloon because of my ownership of an EV. And I just recently had to write my previous one off due to body damage unrelated to the battery. 

New EV tech is making the road trip argument much less an issue. You're talking 10-80% times of under a half an hour with ranges approaching or exceeding 500 kms. I don't know who's in so much of a rush on their road trip that they can't take accept a 30 minute pit stop every 3 hours of driving. I know that travelling with kids makes that mandatory. 

The Ivy Stage 3 chargers at OnRoute locations in Ontario have an App that will let you know if they're available as you approach you can know if you'll be able to charger or not. 

I should be doing a mini road trip in the next few weeks. I'm eager to see how the situation has improved for EV charging with a new model. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

We've gone over this

And yet for some reason you're still a hair slow on the uptake  

Quote

. If you can't charge at home, EVs aren't for you, yet. Lots of Condo units are making them available, but it's still not the norm. We'll need more public charging stations for it to be viable for condo dwellers. 

They can't. It is severely problematic. At best you can make it possible with severe inconveniences and strain on the system.

And just because you may not be aware and many of the provinces the need for EV charging is coming along simultaneously with extremely increased need for air conditioning and cooling. British Columbia for example is getting warmer in the summers with more severe heat events and related deaths.

As a result the need for air conditioning has become significant. 15 years ago almost no residential buildings in British Columbia had air conditioning. New houses were not built with that in mind nor were they attached to the power grid with the thought of adding that in the future. Now everybody wants it. So townhomes and apartments are struggling with severely increased power requirements even before EVS come along

But even if you can charge from home, there are still problems. For many places in Canada it's too cold in the winter and the range of the batteries goes down so substantially that it creates very difficult problems. Traveling any real distance becomes a severe problem if you have children especially.

For the majority of the public, and I do mean the strong majority, having an EV as their only vehicle is not remotely practical nor is it desirable.You expand the number slightly if you have a two-car family and only one of which is an EV.

And that's great, those people should have a choice and it's wonderful that they can use something more environmentally friendly

If you want to get serious about the issue the only technology currently available that is practical is plug-in hybrids. Those solve the problems of charging and still reduce pollution by over 90 percent. 

[Boges]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If you want to get serious about the issue the only technology currently available that is practical is plug-in hybrids. Those solve the problems of charging and still reduce pollution by over 90 percent. 

The only automaker that's remotely serious about PHEVs is Toyota. The options just aren't out there. You'd be better just sticking with a Hybrid. 

We're heating that Chinese EV tech has gotten charging times down really low and prices too. I think within the next 10 years we'll have cars with even quicker charging times. 

Then we'll need more of them. So Gas Stations will move from pumping gas to rows of Stage 3 chargers. 

The next issue is generating capacity. More acceptance of Nuclear power will be a potential fix to this. 

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, Boges said:

The only automaker that's remotely serious about PHEVs is Toyota. The options just aren't out there.

Sure they are.  And they'll be even more so if the gov't backs it. 

Best Plug-in Hybrid Cars: Highest-rated 2025 cars according to Driving data-driven ratings | Driving

The only reason that we haven't seen a hell of a lot more in that segment is because the government said that only true EV Vehicles would be allowed after 2030. We now know that that was a disaster and not even remotely possible.

China who wasn't operating under such restrictions has produced some amazing hybrids

Sorry, but electric vehicles are not the way of the future for the vast majority of people. Hybrids can be, and perhaps today will come when we have better and more efficient ways of storing or generating electricity and we can move away from fossil fuels entirely but in the meantime this is it if we're talking about mass adaptation