Animal testing and studying for cancer medicine

[Sue]

I'm struggling a bit. Currently I'm studying to get into a master called Oncology. I'll be learning about cancers and their medicine. At the moment, in Europe medicine HAVE to be tested on animals, by law. So, although I might not will be doing animal testing, I know that animals will be tested in the course of finding new medicine. I'm a vegan, so I really put maximum effort in my daily life to not be cruel to animals. Thus I'm also against animal testing, but what now? Do I just advocate for animal rights and continue my degree, this is my passion...

Edited May 24, 2021 by Sue

[Dougie93]

10 hours ago, Sue said:

I'm struggling a bit. Currently I'm studying to get into a master called Oncology. I'll be learning about cancers and their medicine. At the moment, in Europe medicine HAVE to be tested on animals, by law. So, although I might not will be doing animal testing, I know that animals will be tested in the course of finding new medicine. I'm a vegan, so I really put maximum effort in my daily life to not be cruel to animals. Thus I'm also against animal testing, but what now? Do I just advocate for animal rights and continue my degree, this is my passion...

my passion was to be an infantryman

that's a state sanctioned mass murderer who hunts and kills the human animal

it's all about compartmentalization

you must unleash you inner apex predator for a cause greater than yourself 

that being said, if you are a female, this could be difficult

as evolutionary biology has not made you to be the hunter killer

millions of years of evolution has programmed you

to desire that the alpha males do the killing for you

so I guess it comes down to how feminist are you ?

can you do the males job, or are you too weak for that ?

if you can't even bring yourself to eat meat, odds are you will be dominated by the males

some male doctor will have to do the job which you are too squeamish to face

Edited May 24, 2021 by Dougie93

[Army Guy]

 

 

9 hours ago, Sue said:

I'm struggling a bit. Currently I'm studying to get into a master called Oncology. I'll be learning about cancers and their medicine. At the moment, in Europe medicine HAVE to be tested on animals, by law. So, although I might not will be doing animal testing, I know that animals will be tested in the course of finding new medicine. I'm a vegan, so I really put maximum effort in my daily life to not be cruel to animals. Thus I'm also against animal testing, but what now? Do I just advocate for animal rights and continue my degree, this is my passion...

If your struggling with this fact, how did the all the other products that use animal testing effect you.   I take it you don't wear make up, it's been tested on animals, same as cleaning products, shampoo, face and body soaps, chemicals used for making clothing and dyes, medications etc,  etc , almost everything in some form or another have been tested on animals... your the one that needs to find that balance of what you can live with... Never really understood the whole vegan thing, and yet, i do not like anyone or anything that is cruel to animals for no  good reason.. 

[Dougie93]

31 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 and yet, i do not like anyone or anything that is cruel to animals for no  good reason.. 

pigs are as smart as dogs, they have emotions, they have an inner life

killing them to make bacon is cruel from a pigs point of view

and yet my inner apex predator revels in it

I'll even shoot the pig in the head myself and roast it on a spit

you have to like me tho, I'm your brother, Pro Patria

[Dougie93]

not to mention that if I couldn't kill a pig I couldn't kill a commie neither

who else are you going to find who is willing to chop a commies head off with an entrenching tool for VRI ?

I mean, ca'mon, what's not to love ?

Edited May 24, 2021 by Dougie93

[Hannah]

I, myself, am against animal testing not because I am a vegan, but because I believe animals should have rights too. Animal testing is just being used for the benefit of us humans and it makes us look selfish. Therefore, I believe you should do what you feel you should do. If you're for animals having right then I would 100% advocate for them and continue to get a degree. if others don't like that, then that is their problem. 

[Michael Hardner]

They test these things on humans too.  And the end goal is for improved health, unlike hamburgers.

[TreeBeard]

On 12/12/2021 at 4:20 AM, Michael Hardner said:

They test these things on humans too.  And the end goal is for improved health, unlike hamburgers.

Improved human health.  Not so good for the rats they breed to be the “guinea pigs”…. Do they use actual guinea pigs still??? 

My take is that it is worth a million rats’ lives to create a product to increase human flourishing, like in the case of cancer treatment.  

It’s not worth a single rat’s life so that a human has eye makeup that won’t irritate.  

Is it worth the cruel and inhumane treatment of our closest primate cousin so that we can cure disease in humans?  Should we put these chimpanzees in cages and subject them to torture?  That I am not so sure about…. 

Where do we draw the line?  

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

1. Not so good for the rats they breed to be the “guinea pigs”…. Do they use actual guinea pigs still??? 

2. My take is that it is worth a million rats’ lives to create a product to increase human flourishing, like in the case of cancer treatment.  

3. It’s not worth a single rat’s life so that a human has eye makeup that won’t irritate.  

4. Is it worth the cruel and inhumane treatment of our closest primate cousin so that we can cure disease in humans?  Should we put these chimpanzees in cages and subject them to torture?  That I am not so sure about….  Where do we draw the line?  

1. Yes.  Until people are convinced that animals shouldn't be experimented on this will continue.
2. I assume you're not a rat.
3. You are assuming rats don't use makeup also
4. Here: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60391099

[Romanoff]

It's difficult for a vegan chef to prepare non-vegan dishes.

Czemerys said, "It's impossible for anyone to be a 100% vegan in a society that isn't vegan."

"If I go to Whole Foods and buy vegan food, I'm still purchasing from a company that sells meat."

The point is that even if you are not willing to make your hands dirty, you are still into passive interaction. You eat veggies of the soil where so many living organisms die and decay. The bioscience community accepts that animals should be used for research only within an ethical framework. Hence, the animal testing here is an experiment for the betterment and cure to human health. In fact, many medicines contain animal byproducts. So, do we want our vegan kith and kin to suffer even if a proper medication exists?

You chose a subject knowing all the facts. Now either you find an alternative research technique and join an animal protest; or live with the complementary pros and cons of your subject.

[TreeBeard]

On 2/15/2022 at 11:59 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Here: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60391099

Here is the line?  Is that what you’re saying?  

What if these neural implants actually will help people who have to live with neurological conditions?  Is that worth torturing monkeys?  I actually don’t know if it is….  

Maybe humans should put up with these things to spare our cousins the torture?  But that’s easy for me to say, not living, and suffering, with a neurological condition.

Edited March 9, 2022 by TreeBeard

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

1. Here is the line?  Is that what you’re saying?  

2. What if these neural implants actually will help people who have to live with neurological conditions?  Is that worth torturing monkeys?  I actually don’t know if it is….  

3. Maybe humans should put up with these things to spare our cousins the torture?  But that’s easy for me to say, not living, and suffering, with a neurological condition.

1. Actually I was being darkly cynical.  That is way over the line.

2. I don't know either.  I don't think we have to know.

3. There appear to be lots of people on here who are - we should ask them.  Then again, they could also implant monkeys.

[TreeBeard]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I don't know either.  I don't think we have to know.
 

We don’t?  Then how do we decide on the morality of it?

 

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. There appear to be lots of people on here who are - we should ask them.  Then again, they could also implant monkeys.

I think you’re mixing up neurological conditions with mental health problems.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

1. We don’t?  Then how do we decide on the morality of it?

2. I think you’re mixing up neurological conditions with mental health problems.

1. Morality isn't always easy.  
2. Agreed.

[TreeBeard]

48 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Morality isn't always easy.  
2. Agreed.

1 - you said “we don’t have to know”, which implies that we shouldn’t bother to try and make a moral assessment of torturing monkeys.  I would disagree.   I think it’s important that we know. 

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

1 - you said “we don’t have to know”, which implies that we shouldn’t bother to try and make a moral assessment of torturing monkeys.  I would disagree.   I think it’s important that we know. 

I mean that as individuals, we can keep an open mind and not pass judgment until we have more information

[Nationalist]

On 5/24/2021 at 4:31 AM, Sue said:

I'm struggling a bit. Currently I'm studying to get into a master called Oncology. I'll be learning about cancers and their medicine. At the moment, in Europe medicine HAVE to be tested on animals, by law. So, although I might not will be doing animal testing, I know that animals will be tested in the course of finding new medicine. I'm a vegan, so I really put maximum effort in my daily life to not be cruel to animals. Thus I'm also against animal testing, but what now? Do I just advocate for animal rights and continue my degree, this is my passion...

You are a Human Being. As such, you have the luxury of being at the top of the food chain. We humans have succeeded for a number of reasons, not the least of which is our penchant for farming both plants and animals for food. We are predators...albeit we are intelligent predators...usually.

That's what you are...I'd suggest you deal with it. Most people don't like experiments on the lower species on our planet. Yet most people don't like cancer more.

Starve or eat...take ur pick.

[Guest]

I don’t think animals should needlessly be tested on. IE for shampoo. 

However, it to me is common sense. If treating for something like Covid-19. I would rather lose 10 000 rats, than people in guinea pig like treatments that aren't quite ready for the big show.

I don't think animals are entitled to the same laws and rights as humans. 

Needless cruelty am against. But in the name of human medicine, am good with it.