Universities, from merit to mediocrity

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1. That's because there's a complete absence of integrity and honesty in journalism/mass media.

2. Even if a viewer from one side of the political spectrum or the other wanted to discuss an issue fairly they couldn't because they've never even been exposed to any of the facts which support the other half of the debate.

3. Making matters worse is the fact that in most cases, people are extremely resistant to facts that they don't like. 

4.Just try telling someone who watches CNN that Obama was actually the huge liar in Russian collusion, and not Trump. They'll go apoplectic.

 

1 What about right-wing mass media ?  Is that not good enough ?
2. That sounds extreme.  Even FOX confirmed the story that Trump mocked soldiers, so your assertion maybe shouldn't be absolute ie. 'never been exposed'
3. That's a big problem.
4. CNN viewers are susceptible to this as the network just focuses on Trump issues but FOX is the same.  Yesterday, after Republican journalist Bob Woodward played tape of Trump saying he was downplaying the disaster, FOX's Lou Dobbs described the day as one any president would "dream" of  having.

 

Please note that the examples I gave above have equal examples from CNN and FOX.   If you are really dedicated to looking at this objectively, you could do the same.

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1 What about right-wing mass media ?  Is that not good enough ?
2. That sounds extreme.  Even FOX confirmed the story that Trump mocked soldiers, so your assertion maybe shouldn't be absolute ie. 'never been exposed'
3. That's a big problem.
4. CNN viewers are susceptible to this as the network just focuses on Trump issues but FOX is the same.  Yesterday, after Republican journalist Bob Woodward played tape of Trump saying he was downplaying the disaster, FOX's Lou Dobbs described the day as one any president would "dream" of  having.

 

Please note that the examples I gave above have equal examples from CNN and FOX.   If you are really dedicated to looking at this objectively, you could do the same.

 

1) There isn't any right-wing msm in Canada, but if you're talking about Fox, their integrity is orders of magnitude above CNN. They're basically just a damage-control network though, they don't have time to cover as much news as they should. For example, they're spending too much time debunking a non-story like "Russian collusion" or "Trump called members of the military losers" to cover much else.

Eg, why did no one ever follow up on AOC's accusation "They were forcing women to drink out of toilets!"? That's either a massive lie or a massive story. It never should have just gone away. 

You'll notice that Fox doesn't have a similar fabrication about Biden out there, there's no need. Biden is a murmuring gaffe machine with a brutal record as a politician and the Hunter scandals to talk about.

2) Fox actually did expose their viewers to the story about 'military losers', but it's just he said she said from the accusers, and on Trump's side there are first-hand accounts saying it's BS. Even from Bolton, who hates Trump. 

Don't forget that CNN said "Trump said that all immigrants are animals", and they did it more than once. He clearly never said that at all, and not even the dumbest person alive would have misinterpreted his comment to that extent. When CNN accuses anyone of saying anything it's basically worth commenting on unless there's hi-def video and more than 3 eye-witnesses (not just people citing anonymous sources either, as is the case with the military losers thing). 

I don't doubt that there are things that Fox should be talking about but aren't. In an election year every story is about the election, and if a story doesn't fit into an election narrative then Fox doesn't make time for it. 

Eg, the issue of pedophile rings getting busted would be a big deal for most people in North America, but it gets no national coverage at all on any channel. That's really odd. I doubt that there's a single person in NA that doesn't care about that. 

4) Lou Dobbs is a financial guy, whatever he said about Trump as President would primarily be about the DOW, job growth, unemployment statistics or something. It wouldn't likely even have anything to do with the Nobel nomination. Do you honestly think he was referring to covid, or the story about the military when he said that? There's nothing dreamy about either issue. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by WestCanMan

[Argus]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Just try telling someone who watches CNN that Obama was actually the huge liar in Russian collusion, and not Trump. They'll go apoplectic

Try telling a FOX viewer that the Earth is round and vaccines are good for you, or that the world isn't being run by a secret cabal and watch their brain explode.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

 but if you're talking about Fox, their integrity is orders of magnitude above CNN.

FOX is not even a news network. It's an entertainment network, as described by Murdoch. It's not there to tell you anything truthful, so it doesn't. It's a propaganda  mill for the far right, conspiracy kooks and brainless populists. It pays multi-million dollar salaries to blowhards who will shout and point fingers and make wild accusations without any facts.

Integrity plays no part of their corporate culture.

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

FOX is not even a news network. It's an entertainment network, as described by Murdoch. It's not there to tell you anything truthful, so it doesn't. It's a propaganda  mill for the far right, conspiracy kooks and brainless populists. It pays multi-million dollar salaries to blowhards who will shout and point fingers and make wild accusations without any facts.

Integrity plays no part of their corporate culture.

Riiiight. This from a guy who can't even find one instance of them lying. 

I've posted instances of CNN lying on literally every topic known to man.

Go home kid. 

[Argus]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

I've posted instances of CNN lying on literally every topic known to man.

Go home kid. 

I think, as a member of the Trump cult, you simply aren't familiar with the term 'lying'. Truth plays no part in your life or your world. You don't understand it, so you don't understand what a lie is. You've reduced it all down to "Whatever my glorious macho God Trump and his propaganda network says is true. Whatever anyone else says is a lie!"

Trump: "Oh I love the poorly educated!"

[WestCanMan]

20 minutes ago, Argus said:

Try telling a FOX viewer that the Earth is round and vaccines are good for you, or that the world isn't being run by a secret cabal and watch their brain explode.

I cited something 100% truthful and accurate, you have no real comment so instead you mouth off with this sandbox bullshit. 

[Argus]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

I cited something 100% truthful and accurate, you have no real comment so instead you mouth off with this sandbox bullshit. 

You spewed out a list of bullshit like a typical conspiracy kook and I couldn't be bothered to argue with it. I long ago learned not to waste my time with conspiracy nuts and crazy cult members.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

You spewed out a list of bullshit like a typical conspiracy kook and I couldn't be bothered to argue with it. I long ago learned not to waste my time with conspiracy nuts and crazy cult members.

Look at what you quoted 24 minutes ago Argus. It's in the little bluish box, above your idiotic word soup.

I said "Just try telling someone who watches CNN that Obama was actually the huge liar in Russian collusion, and not Trump. They'll go apoplectic"

You chose that quote yourself. You could have sat in silence, but you ran your mouth about it. 

Are you denying that Trump said that his campaign was spied on?

Are you denying that Obama said that Trump's campaign wasn't spied on?

Are you denying that the whole f'ing world now knows that Trump's campaign actually was spied on, making Obama a huge liar?  

 I have the internet, remember? 

Those are all facts. Literally everyone in North America that has a TV is aware of 100% of all of those facts. If you deny it you'll look like an absolute idiot. Even Don Lemon wouldn't argue this point, he'd just ignore it and make up some other crap for people like you to mange mange mange. 

You replied to my facts with your childish crap. That might make you a star in a fascist alt-left cultfarm like Berkeley, here it's just weak. 

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

FOX is not even a news network. It's an entertainment network, as described by Murdoch.

Where do you even come up with crap like this?

Do they say this on CNN of all places? Did a guy at your work tell you this? Do liberals say this to their crying friends to comfort them when they accidentally catch a glimpse of the truth and they don't have a blankie or an emotional support donkey? 

I gotta know your sources Argus, it's just too funny.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) There isn't any right-wing msm in Canada  

2) Fox actually did expose their viewers to the story about 'military losers', 

1) National Post, Globe and Mail, other newspapers.
2) Yes that is what I'm saying

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Please note that the examples I gave above have equal examples from CNN and FOX.   If you are really dedicated to looking at this objectively, you could do the same.

I think that CNN has become just as bad as FOX.  We can blame both networks all we want, but the very sad part is that since they are corporate media, they very clearly are operating on a profit motive and little more.  FOX News is #1 in cable news ratings, and CNN got a significant jump in ratings throughout 2016 because of their almost 24/7 Trump coverage, and they doubled-down on that post-election on the anti-Trump op-ed stuff for the sake of ratings.

The point is, if CNN and FOX doing this results in higher ratings, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.  If people were so disgusted by this type of journalism they wouldn't tune in and the news would be more professional and objective.  People don't want all the facts, they only want the facts that confirm their biases.

There used to be only a few channels on TV that had the news, and everyone in the country watched the same news programs.  Now because of cable TV and the internet, there's so many choices that companies offer something for everyone, and we've retreated into our bubbles.  That old shared culture is unifying, but it's mostly gone.

Remember when everyone was on MLW?  Now we have the right-leaning MLW, and the left-leaning JMT forum.  We are self-segregating.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) National Post, Globe and Mail, other newspapers.
2) Yes that is what I'm saying

I would say National Post, SUN newspapers, i would argue all Postmedia papers.

The Globe and Mail is probably the most centrist and objective english paper in the country.  We need to support them.  I don't subscribe but I turned off my ad-blocker for the site.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[PIK]

Now not being as educated or worldly as some if you sound. But I think the left and the right need to meet in the middle and have a party. Then get back to work. Just saying...

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) National Post, Globe and Mail, other newspapers.
2) Yes that is what I'm saying

National post, sure. 

Globe and Mail makes some forays into covering topics that leftists would normally avoid like the plague, but they swing radically left sometimes.

There isn't a right wing TV news station though. The closest thing we have is Rebel News lol. 

Honestly, Rebel does cover some stories that need to be covered, they're just really bad at it. They could do a biography on my own mom and I could only watch the first 2 minutes of it. 

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

The Globe and Mail is probably the most centrist and objective english paper in the country.  We need to support them.  I don't subscribe but I turned off my ad-blocker for the site.

Agreed.  And it's the ONE paper I subscribe to.  Everyone should....

If you don't think universities pursue knowledge anymore then invest in the press.  

[Argus]

16 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Are you denying that the whole f'ing world now knows that Trump's campaign actually was spied on, making Obama a huge liar?  

Yes. I'm saying the only people who believe that are brainless FOX viewers.

16 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

 I have the internet, remember?

 

I understand you can download porn from there.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I think that CNN has become just as bad as FOX. 

No. There's no doubt CNN is ideologically biased. But unlike FOX it doesn't coordinate its message with the white house - or the democratic party. FOX has become state TV for this white house, with figures moving back and forth between them, and key people like Sean Hannity talking almost daily with Trump to coordinate spin from both ends. Trump watches FOX constantly and calls them up live regularly to speak for long periods of time to the likes of Fox and Friends on air. And believe me, there are no hard questions directed his way. Ever.

11 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Remember when everyone was on MLW?  Now we have the right-leaning MLW, and the left-leaning JMT forum.  We are self-segregating.

There are plenty of left leaning people here. There are no right leaning people on the other (unless they're masochists who enjoy being constantly insulted). Once again the Left's intolerance shows.

 

 

 

[Argus]

How goofy can major universities be in their social justice fixation? This goofy.

Professor Greg Patton at the University of Southern California (USC) was telling students in a communications lecture last month about filler, or pause words, such as 'err', 'umm' or 'you know' in English.

Footage of his lecture, which has now gone viral, shows Prof Patton saying: "In China, the common pause word is 'that, that, that'. So in China, it might be na-ge, na-ge, na-ge."

Enunciated, na-ge sounds like the N-word, which led several of the professor's students to complain to the university. Responding to the complaint, the dean of the university, Geoffrey Garrett, told students that Prof Patton would no longer be teaching the course.

"It is simply unacceptable for the faculty to use words in class that can marginalize, hurt and harm the psychological safety of our students," he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54107329

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Yes. I'm saying the only people who believe that are brainless FOX viewers.

You need to get clue bro. You are completely hopeless.

Google: Trump says he is being wiretapped, you'll find thousands of articles calling him a liar. Obama laughed at Trump right along with them. Now the entire world knows that Trump's campaign actually was spied on. 

In case you missed it...

The FBI was caught lying to the FISA court to get warrants to do 'surveillance' on members of the incoming Trump administration. FBI Laywer Kevin Clinesmith pleaded guilty to lying to a FISA court judge. The IG report found 17 significant errors or omissions in evidence brought to the FISA Court judge by members of the FBI.

From NBC: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/two-4-warrants-letting-fbi-spy-ex-trump-aide-carter-n1121406

Quote

In December, a scathing report by the Justice Department's inspector general found that the FBI's applications to spy on Page were rife with "factual misstatements and omissions," and in the weeks since, the FISA court has demanded an accounting from the Justice Department on how that happened and what is being done about it.

*SNIP*

All told, the FBI obtained four orders to conduct surveillance of Page — the original order and then three renewals. When Judge Boasberg disclosed in his opinion, dated Jan. 7, that the Justice Department had found two of the four orders to be invalid, he also said the Justice Department did not take a position on whether the remaining two were valid.

Here's the extent of it: https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/21-words-uttered-fisa-court-change-russia-collusion-case

Quote

"The frequency and seriousness of these errors in a case that, given its sensitive nature, had an unusually high level of review at both DOJ and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have called into question the reliability of the information proffered in other FBI applications," Boasberg wrote.

Given your complete inability to comprehend this whole issue, I'll tell you exactly what the FISA Court Judge's words actually mean: "There was a shitload of serious lies in the FBI's reports to the FISA Court, which can't be dismissed as mere errors due to the high level of scrutiny that they received from both the DOJ and FBI. Given the fact that the FBI lied so much in this case, it is highly unlikely that they didn't lie in other cases."

In case you still can't follow it boils down to this: "The integrity of the FBI is now shot, and now there is a shadow of doubt cast on every piece of evidence that they ever submitted and every file that they ever touched".

 

Susan Rice, to Susan Rice: "Hi me, I'm just writing us an email to remind ourselves of how Barack Obama wasn't involved in the spying on Trump's associates".  - That's not weird

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/19/michael-flynn-full-susan-rice-email-sent-on-trumps-inauguration-day-267998

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

How goofy can major universities be in their social justice fixation? This goofy.

Professor Greg Patton at the University of Southern California (USC) was telling students in a communications lecture last month about filler, or pause words, such as 'err', 'umm' or 'you know' in English.

Footage of his lecture, which has now gone viral, shows Prof Patton saying: "In China, the common pause word is 'that, that, that'. So in China, it might be na-ge, na-ge, na-ge."

Enunciated, na-ge sounds like the N-word, which led several of the professor's students to complain to the university. Responding to the complaint, the dean of the university, Geoffrey Garrett, told students that Prof Patton would no longer be teaching the course.

"It is simply unacceptable for the faculty to use words in class that can marginalize, hurt and harm the psychological safety of our students," he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54107329

 

Why aren't more people suing for this type of nonsense?

Why are we as a society allowing bullies to acquire this kind of power?

Edited September 11, 2020 by Moonlight Graham

[Michael Hardner]

The University says the words were not the issue.

 

https://reason.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2020-09-06-Deans-Greg-Patton-Statement.pdf

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Enunciated, na-ge sounds like the N-word, which led several of the professor's students to complain to the university. Responding to the complaint, the dean of the university, Geoffrey Garrett, told students that Prof Patton would no longer be teaching the course

I think that's unreasonable; if people can't tell the difference between a foreign word and an English slur, that's their problem imo. 

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

The University says the words were not the issue.

The letter essentially says it's not about the word, but the sound of the word!? They claim the mere sound of ne'ga is polarizing and thus a poor example of whatever the instructor was teaching.

Ridiculous, in my opinion.

[Michael Hardner]

54 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 The letter essentially says it's not about the word, but the sound of the word!?  

"the use of a polarizing example Professor Patton used"

Out of context, it's impossible to say what the issue was.  Initially I thought he was speaking Mandarin but seems now like maybe he thought it was funny that a word sounded like the n-word ?  

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Why aren't more people suing for this type of nonsense?

Why are we as a society allowing bullies to acquire this kind of power?

Because we've lost control of our universities. First, is this idea of tenure. What other profession allows you to stay in place even if your employer hates you and you're screwing up and making them look bad? Second, despite the fact almost all university funding comes from government we allow them to set their own rules for admission, for discipline, for what types of things are taught and in what way they are taught with no input from elected government. The universities have perpetuated the idea this would be sacrosanct, an interference in academic freedom.

But in truth, there is little real academic freedom.Universities have become cozy little communities of leftist ideologues and only those who are of the same groupthink get hired. These people are overpaid, and most have little likelihood of obtaining a job in the private sector which would pay them anything remotely like what they get at universities (that includes the legions of bureaucrats and administrators). The tenured professors often only teach one or two classes a year too. Leaving the rest to TAs.

But to the Left, they are not only kindred spirits, they are the birthplace of their belief systems, and the place where those leftist beliefs are nurtured and grown. Universities are the nurseries for Leftist ideologues. Any attempt at reforming them would draw howls of outrage throughout academia, politics, media and the arts. And few governments, even the conservative ones, have been willing to risk it.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Argus