When they talk about de-funding or dismantling Law Enforcement

[Argus]

2 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

I've seen videos of compliance but the police still throw the beat down or shot and kill.

Well, the ones you posted were not ones with compliance.

2 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

Violence is part of America's culture. Throughout all levels of the society.Another murder by police.

Violence IS a part of America's culture. So when a cop with his gun out orders you to put your hands up you ought to do it rather than keeping them hidden, eh?
 The cop was on a gun call. He was in fear for his life. I don't think it's right they shoot until they actually see a gun, but I know it happens a lot and so should everyone else.

2 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

Nope all on the up an up to throw jabs into the woman's side. 

Yes, that's what they do when the person they've taken down won't allow their arms to be pulled out so they can be cuffed. The police are taught certain areas of the body to strike in order to compel compliance. Those are areas which will cause pain but no damage.

Do what the man with the gun tells you and you'll be fine in 99.9% of cases.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Both parties have had successes and failures with strong mayoral and police partnerships in the U.S....examples would include Daley in Chicago, Rizzo in Philadelphia, and more recently, Guliani in New York City.    Aggressive policing,  incarcerations, carding, etc. were supported decades ago.   Hell, Democrat Joe Biden wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that put 100,000 more police on the streets with more firepower.

Those models won't work anymore because of other pressures and priorities on top of pre-existing social and economic conditions.   Democrats are hell bent on keeping political power in urban zones, while Republicans have staked out the suburbs and flyover country.   Most of America's largest cities are now firmly under Democratic control, and they are not doing well.   Sanctuary cities have become the latest fad to undermine old fashioned law and order.

King Solomon never had to win elections.

Which is maybe a reason why democracy isn't working any more. Too many dumb people with almost no knowledge but the certainty that they're right. the Democrat cities are falling apart in a rush of homelessness and rising crime, not to mention huge budget shortfalls. New York city is so corrupt it spend a fortune on schools that produce students who can barely read. Seattle is a dump, and Portland isn't much better. They and LA and San Fransisco have huge and rising rates of homelessness. And I'm willing to bet crime is going to skyrocket after this as police pull back in cop-hating cities like New York, Minneapolis and Atlanta.

And then at the federal level you've got that idiot Trump and his band of grifters. Soon to be replaced by Biden and his band of identity politics loonies.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

And then at the federal level you've got that idiot Trump and his band of grifters. Soon to be replaced by Biden and his band of identity politics loonies.

 

Better Trump's grifters than the 50+ years of Biden and Democrats direct political control of the status quo for urban cities.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Which is maybe a reason why democracy isn't working any more.

Democracy isn't working anymore because the alt-left media is a bunch of out of control liars and panderers, along with the Dems/Libs. Barack Obama is the worst of the lot. Him and Michelle are trying to squeeze every last ounce of crime out of the Demmie horde.

Honest coverage of Michael Brown's death would have resulted in far less rioting, looting, arson and cop-killings. Obama could have played that down after a few months instead of continuously fanning the flames.

Accurate coverage of George Floyd's death would have resulted in very little rioting, looting, arson and cop-killings. Obama and his ho worked the GF death as hard at they could without carrying torches and attacking cops themselves. 

Accurate coverage of Rayshard Brooks' death would have resulted in no rioting, looting, and arson. It's not getting much traction at all but it's not for a lack of trying. 

[Argus]

I was watching Al Jazeera this morning. I think more people should do so. Unlike Canadian and American media it focuses very little on politics, and shows stories from around the world. One of those, this morning, were women talking about their experiences in Iraq, and the murderous militia groups who attacked/raped/murdered their families. And it occurred to me, as it sometimes does, that we are all vicious animals with only a thin veneer of civilization keeping our baser impulses in check.

And the first line of that civilization is the police. I think that younger people, in particular, who have never known danger, who have rarely even witnessed or been the victim of violence, fail to understand that. I know kids who are graduating high school who have never been involved in a fight. That's almost hard to understand, for me, who went to school decades earlier. One girl who graduated this year was spoken rudely to by a couple of guys out behind the school and was so shook up she changed schools. Most of these younger people pay little attention to the news other than what comes across on social media, and they simply do not understand the barbarism which lays just behind the walls of civilization.

Get rid of the police and that barbarism will erupt and grow with lightning speed. The street gangs will take over territory and become mini-warlords shooting it out in the streets with bigger and bigger weapons. Then there's those militia kooks waiting in the woods, praying for a social collapse so they can make their move. Not to mention just ordinary people who will decide if it's him or me it's gonna be me, and pick up a gun. The precious progressives who believe police don't deter or control crime would be utterly helpless in the face of the violence which would ensue without them. I don't think they even have the imaginations to conceive of it. The think Iraq or Syria or Rwanda or, for that matter, Mexico or Columbia or Cambodia could never happen here. They're quite mistaken.

[New World Disorder]

20 hours ago, Argus said:

Well, the ones you posted were not ones with compliance.

There are many that show people are compliant and police shoot them anyways.  But I understand I cannot convince you of that.

Moving on.  Back in 2016. 

 

[New World Disorder]

20 hours ago, Argus said:

Yes, that's what they do when the person they've taken down won't allow their arms to be pulled out so they can be cuffed. The police are taught certain areas of the body to strike in order to compel compliance. Those are areas which will cause pain but no damage.

 

Two cops on you,  you are UNABLE to move your arms.  So throw jab into her is acceptable to you? 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, New World Disorder said:

There are many that show people are compliant and police shoot them anyways.  But I understand I cannot convince you of that.

Moving on.  Back in 2016.

Philandro Castlle was also not one of compliance. Don't reach for something after telling a cop you have a gun and when the cop shouts to freeze.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, New World Disorder said:

Two cops on you,  you are UNABLE to move your arms.  So throw jab into her is acceptable to you? 

What part of do what the police F'ing tell you so they don't have to use force do you not understand?

[New World Disorder]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

What part of do what the police F'ing tell you so they don't have to use force do you not understand?

I'll let you live in that fantasy that the police are always on the up and up. Compliance does not mean you are not gonna have a bad time.

They shove that tazer right in the guy's ass.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jckr9HVE8Eg

[Argus]

Some intelligent thinking on defunding police

These proposals are based on either over-optimistic or false beliefs about the funding and efficacy of social programs. First, American police spending is hardly out of line with the rest of the world. State and local police spending in fiscal year 2017 totaled $115 billion; federal law enforcement spending included $14.4 billion on top of that. Altogether, spending on police totaled 0.66 percent of the 2017 GDP of $19.5 trillion. This is low by the standards of developed nations. Member countries of the European Union spend an average of 0.9 percent of their GDP on the police, with individual nations ranging from 0.5 percent to 1.4 percent. The Urban Institute notes that though police spending has grown in absolute terms since the late 1970s, it has consistently remained at just below 4 percent of total state spending, and that 97 percent of police spending goes to labor costs—not extravagant military-grade equipment, as critics claim.

On the local level, police spending is dwarfed by education, which accounts for 40 percent of local government spending nationwide, versus just 6 percent for police.

 

https://outline.com/XESL4B

[Argus]

1 hour ago, New World Disorder said:

I'll let you live in that fantasy that the police are always on the up and up. Compliance does not mean you are not gonna have a bad time.

They shove that tazer right in the guy's ass.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jckr9HVE8Eg

So? This is simply an example of a lack of discipline on that force. He should have been fired and probably charged. Every profession has bad apples, and when you don't work to weed them out it gives the profession a bad name - like lawyers.

[OftenWrong]

14 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

Compliance does not mean you are not gonna have a bad time.

I know what you mean, have seen it first hand myself. Some cops are almost psychotic. Usually older male. Females are more professional. The male cops seem more like they personally want to be in charge of things. The kind of people who have no problem using force, if they want to. It is a profession that enables them. I don't know if they get that way after a while, or they were that way to begin with and that's what made them want to be cops, but in a way it must be true, there is a "will to policing".

But in any case, while compliance does not mean you aren't gonna have a bad time, non-compliance pretty well guarantees it.

[New World Disorder]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

So? This is simply an example of a lack of discipline on that force. He should have been fired and probably charged. Every profession has bad apples, and when you don't work to weed them out it gives the profession a bad name - like lawyers.

Seems like you agree with me in the end.  But as we have seen with the police,  the good apples protect the bad ones. That's the thin blue line right there for you.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

Seems like you agree with me in the end.  But as we have seen with the police,  the good apples protect the bad ones. That's the thin blue line right there for you.

I've always felt police needed better training and discipline. But the answer isn't fewer cops, certainly not in Canada, given how few we already have, but to demand better training and oversight.

[New World Disorder]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I've always felt police needed better training and discipline. But the answer isn't fewer cops, certainly not in Canada, given how few we already have, but to demand better training and oversight.

Training seems to be key.  Maybe a comparison with other nations to see how handle police training would be a good idea.

I'd also compare that with other essential services and see how much training they get.

[Argus]

21 hours ago, New World Disorder said:

Training seems to be key.  Maybe a comparison with other nations to see how handle police training would be a good idea.

I'd also compare that with other essential services and see how much training they get.

Well, hairdressers get twice as much training as police, if that's any indication.

[OftenWrong]

Quote

Thompson said he was standing near two police officers on patrol, who immediately drew their weapons and took up a tactical position behind a vehicle before proceeding to the location of the shooting.

Minneapolis Shooting: One person killed and 11 others wounded

 

A day in the life.

[Argus]

As suspected, what all these attacks on police are doing is making the police pull back from enforcing the law, especially in minority areas. The result, again,as expected, is a huge and still rising wave of crime, especially violent crime. More and more blacks are being murdered while the BLM crowd and the liberal politicians harangue police and work to cut their budgets.

Breakdown

The unwinding of law and order in our cities has happened with stunning speed.

It took several months for the first iteration of the Ferguson Effect to become obvious. Michael Brown was fatally shot by a Ferguson, Missouri, police officer in August 2014, triggering local riots and a national narrative about lethally racist police. Officers backed off proactive policing in minority neighborhoods, having been told that such discretionary enforcement was racially oppressive. By early 2015, the resulting spike in shootings and homicides had become patent and would lead to an additional 2,000 black homicide victims in 2015 and 2016, compared with 2014 numbers.

Today’s violent-crime increase—call it Ferguson Effect 2.0 or the Minneapolis Effect—has come on with a speed and magnitude that make Ferguson 1.0 seem tranquil. George Floyd’s death at the hands of Minneapolis police in late May was justly condemned—but the event has now spurred an outpouring of contempt against the pillars of law and order that has no precedent in American history. Every day, another mainstream institution—from McDonald’s to Harvard—denounces the police, claiming without evidence that law enforcement is a threat to black lives.

https://www.city-journal.org/ferguson-effect-inner-cities

Edited July 3, 2020 by Argus

[WestCanMan]

If you look at the number of people that died in chop, or were critically injured by gunfire, I think the verdict is on on what life in America would look like without police - short.

 

[Michael Hardner]

"If you look at..."

If only it were possible to cite things like published stats... Seriously I am shaking my head at the shoddy logic of the alt-right zombies on my ignore list. 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"If you look at..."

If only it were possible to cite things like published stats... Seriously I am shaking my head at the shoddy logic of the alt-right zombies on my ignore list. 

Labeling, dismissing, and insulting; hallmarks of the extremist Left

[WestCanMan]

On 6/18/2020 at 10:02 AM, Argus said:

I was watching Al Jazeera this morning. I think more people should do so.

They have a FB page called AJ+.

If you go on AJ+ they'll dredge up 100 yr old stories about something that happened to a black girl by some white Americans and act like it was done on behalf of the whole white race, both then and now. They were doing that while islamic state owned 100,000 sq km in levant, and they didn't talk about islamic state's genocide at all.

This is their MO: run a story about some fluffy bunnies, a little kid's bold science fair project, run a story about some Hindus that raped a muslim girl in India for the 7th straight week, show some rainbows, talk about how racist American police are, show some more fluffy bunnies, etc.

I just scrolled their screed right now and this was from the 4th post:

Quote

New York City’s mysterious increase in fireworks displays has sparked a number of conspiracy theories, from government psychological warfare to out-of-state sellers.

They get one thing right, though: The city is overpoliced, and policing is notoriously racist.

the 6th story:

Quote

These Florida police officers were caught on tape laughing after shooting rubber bullets at protesters during a #BlackLivesMatter protest in May. One of the protesters they shot suffered a fractured skull.

the 7th story is a great one by their bigoted standards. It ties big, bad USA with the great Satan of Israel:

Quote

U.S. police are being trained by Israel. And communities of color are disproportionately paying the price.

8th story:

Quote

"My sister's a human being. And I want justice. And I want answers."

20-year-old Vanessa Guillen went missing from Fort Hood in April. Now her family believes her remains have been found. Her sister is telling the US army that she wants to know what happened.

10th story is big, bad, Israel again:

Quote

Israel says it intends to annex more Palestinian land – without giving the Palestinians living there any rights. So what happens now?

11th story is racism in britain:

Quote

This 13-year-old was "racially profiled" and wrongly arrested during a charity bike ride in London.

12th story:

Quote

The Chinese government is forcing Uighur Muslim women to insert IUDs and be sterilized in an effort to control the Uighur population. 

Experts are calling this a demographic genocide.

 

15th Story:

Quote

"Most of the people that are going to be impacted by this are people of color."

Rep. Rashida Tlaib is calling to free inmates who are eligible for release, specifically those who are waiting for trial or have not been found guilty yet.

'Cause you know that Tlaib is the voice of reason in the US lol.

16th story:

Quote

From lynching to shoot-to-kill: This is the violent history in U.S policing.

See, I told ya. The distant history of the US comes alive on AJ+ but there's nothing bad going on in the muslim world. 

17th story:

Quote

"How can you ask a student to focus when they're worried about their family who is in a war zone ... "

This Yemeni-American teacher shows us how to bake sabayah, a traditional Yemeni sweet bread, while sharing the impact of Pres. Trump's travel ban on her students and community.

18th story:

Quote

Watch this woman paint the difficulty of life under Israel's military occupation of the West Bank.

Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank are living in fear of Israel's threat to annex up to 30% of their land.

 

There were no stories in between the ones I posted that said anything negative about and muslim-majority countries, ar any muslims at all for that matter. Apparently the violence against women in Iraq is a thing of the past now.

AL Jazeera and AJ+ are a bigoted pile of crap. Fear mongering and hate mongering at it's best. 

[WestCanMan]

Let's pretend that they had 50 CHAZIS (CHAZ Police).

It's less than 50, but whatever, I'm being generous here.

In 3 weeks, with 50 cops, the CHAZIS killed a 16 year old black kid and critically injured a 14 year old. 

America has ~ 1M cops. 20,000 times more than CHAZIS.

If the rest of America's police were killing black kids at the same rate as the Chazis there would have been 20,000 dead black kids over those 3 weeks.

Over the course of a year American police would kill 340,000 black kids if they were as racist and murderous as the Chazis. 

There would be additional 340,000 black teenagers dead from shootings in America if their murder rate was as bad as CHAZ's murder rate, and 680,000 people would end up in critical condition in the hospital from violence. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

They have a FB page called AJ+.

If you go on AJ+ they'll dredge up 100 yr old stories about something that happened to a black girl by some white Americans and act like it was done on behalf of the whole white race, both then and now. They were doing that while islamic state owned 100,000 sq km in levant, and they didn't talk about islamic state's genocide at all.

I don't go to their web site. Their news, at least the news which appears in Canada, is considerably more moderate and covers news of interest in Europe, Africa, South America as well as the Middle East.