Abortion

[Yukon]

Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state abortion is a sin/murder? Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state that a woman cannot control her own body?

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Yukon said:

Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state abortion is a sin/murder? Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state that a woman cannot control her own body?

Have you ever read the bible? If you had you probably wouldn't need to be asking questions like this.

[August1991]

Exodus 20.13 "Thou shalt not kill." (King James Version)

=====

Yet, we send soldiers to kill on our behalf. Heck, policeman now kill people -presumably to protect us. And still many more people condone the killing of infants in a womb. Some prefer capital punishment, others oppose the State killing anyone. There is a debate about "life", when it starts.

----

Most women, like Milton Friedman, prefer the Freedom to Choose.

Capital Punishment? In Canada, I wonder why Crown Prosecutors cannot use it as a threat: our soldiers do - heck, pregnant Canadian women can too, .

Murder?

I neither like Margaret Atwood nor Ann Coulter: but I must link to one to quote the other:

Coulter quotes Margaret Atwood: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

https://anncoulter.com/2020/07/29/dont-be-a-karen-be-a-becky/

 

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by August1991

[dialamah]

On 1/26/2020 at 8:00 AM, Yukon said:

Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state abortion is a sin/murder? Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state that a woman cannot control her own body?

There's nothing in the Bible specific to abortion.  Which is odd, considering how specific it can be about so many other things.  Christians use several verses to support their stance, most of which have nothing to do with the fetus per se, but with God's knowledge of the fetus.  Exodus 21:22-25, most often used to support anti-abortion rights, levies only a fine for a miscarriage and death if the woman dies.  Clearly, the loss of a fetus was not a big deal in God's eyes.

Also, God cheerfully murdered all firstborn children in Exodus; in Numbers, Moses instructs his victorious soldiers to kill males, even babies, but to keep young, virgin girls for themselves.  And in Psalms 137:8 we find "O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" 

God's concern for the lives of babies and fetuses was minimal.  Even if God disaproves of abortion, it would clearly only apply to his people - if anything, Christians today need not have abortions, but should probably celebrate when non-Christians do.

[August1991]

On 9/5/2020 at 12:15 PM, dialamah said:

... Christians use several verses to support their stance, most of which have nothing to do with the fetus per se, but with God's knowledge of the fetus.  Exodus 21:22-25, most often used to support anti-abortion rights, levies only a fine for a miscarriage and death if the woman dies.  Clearly, the loss of a fetus was not a big deal in God's eyes.

Also, God cheerfully murdered all firstborn children in Exodus; in Numbers, Moses instructs his victorious soldiers to kill males, even babies, but to keep young, virgin girls for themselves.  And in Psalms 137:8 we find "O daughter of Babylon, you devastator! Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" 

.....

dialamah, Christians?

I have always been confused why some people oppose abortion yet accept capital punishment.

While other people want to permit abortion yet oppose capital punishment.

 

 

[dialamah]

11 hours ago, August1991 said:

dialamah, Christians?

OP specifically mentioned the Bible, which is the Christian's Holy Book, their life guide.

11 hours ago, August1991 said:

1.  I have always been confused why some people oppose abortion yet accept capital punishment.

2.  While other people want to permit abortion yet oppose capital punishment.

1. Save and protect the innocent, punish the sinner.

2.  A severely disabled person, kept alive with a ventilator and feeding tube cannot survive without caretakers;  the caretakers can decide if they want to continue to do that. A fetus cannot survive on its own, the caretaker can decide if they wish to continue that caretaking. A guilty person can survive without caretaking and other people cannot decide to take away their life.

My opinion only.

[Marocc]

What's with the KJ version?
I don't know of any woman in the bible taking it upon herself to end her blessed pregnancy. It is in fact against a woman's instinct.

The question is, how come it is so difficult in the "glorious" America to practice a) birth control, b) restraint from immoral sexual activities or c) to have the baby once pregnant?

The pro-abortion people say, "but what about rape, what about health risks?"

Lets see the stats:

WHY DO ABORTIONS OCCUR?

• In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.

  Percentage	Reason
  <0.5%	Victim of rape
  3%	Fetal health problems
  4%	Physical health problems
  4%	Would interfere with education or career
  7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
  8%	Don't want to be a single mother
  19%	Done having children
  23%	Can't afford a baby
  25%	Not ready for a child
  6%	Other   https://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

[dialamah]

10 hours ago, Marocc said:

I don't know of any woman in the bible taking it upon herself to end her blessed pregnancy.

Abortion has been commonly practiced throughout history, even if it wasn't commented on by the 'male' writers of various holy books.  The women certainly knew about it, where to go and how to do it.  Infanticide has also been practiced throughout history, perhaps because the baby was sick or perhaps because the rest of the community was already starving and there was no way the baby could be provided for.

Quote

It is in fact against a woman's instinct.

Both men and women kill their offspring, before and after birth and at various ages.  It's frowned upon, very strongly, but it's surprisingly common.  So "against their instinct" doesn't seem to be entirely accurate.

[August1991]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:34 PM, dialamah said:

1. Save and protect the innocent, punish the sinner.

2.  A severely disabled person, kept alive with a ventilator and feeding tube cannot survive without caretakers;  the caretakers can decide if they want to continue to do that. A fetus cannot survive on its own, the caretaker can decide if they wish to continue that caretaking. A guilty person can survive without caretaking and other people cannot decide to take away their life.

My opinion only.

1. Punish the sinner? This is how you justify capital punishment?

Heck, even the Old Testament states: "Thou shalt not kill." (I won't quote the New Testament on this.)

2. "A fetus cannot survive on its own... "  When? Caretakers? Whatever.    

[Cannucklehead]

Leviticus 20:13 says “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

 

So how is it right kill in this case but abortion is wrong?

[OftenWrong]

 

Quote

Leviticus 20:13 says “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

 

So how is it right kill in this case but abortion is wrong?

The old testament says these things, don't know if the new testament does. I think Paul may have said some negative things about homosexuals as well.

 

In civil society, when a caretaker can no longer take care of someone, another caretaker is brought in. At no point in time is there allowed to be caretaker-abandonment.

Or else whimsical people would go to the beach for a day, or the cottage for a weekend, and forget to take the baby.

Edited September 10, 2020 by OftenWrong

[August1991]

On 9/9/2020 at 1:14 AM, Cannucklehead said:

Leviticus 20:13 says “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

 

So how is it right kill in this case but abortion is wrong?

The Old Testament, the Book of Leviticus, was written by God-knows-whom, God-knows-when. Nevertheless, I read the words of such people - years later, maybe they have something wise to say.

Superstition? Not at all.

 

[French Patriot]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:00 AM, Yukon said:

Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state abortion is a sin/murder? Where in the KJ version of the Bible does it state that a woman cannot control her own body?

Where you ask.

Gen 3. He will rule over you. IOW. men are to control and be seen as superior to women.

As to men controlling women, I adlib the bible.

Stay silent in church and do not dare to try to teach men anything.

Note how equality and Christianity do not promote the same values.

Hence Christianity's homophobia and misogyny.

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:32 PM, Argus said:

Have you ever read the bible? If you had you probably wouldn't need to be asking questions like this.

If you read the bible,  and did not disagree with it, or even if you agreed with it, you could quote it.

Regards

DL

[French Patriot]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:34 PM, dialamah said:

1. Save and protect the innocent, punish the sinner.

Punish the sinner is not in the Christian play book.

Christianity is based on adherents doing the immoral act of abdicating their responsibilities for their sins and accept having Jesus, an innocent man, punished for themselves.

As to protecting the innocent babies and children when using genocide, not in the scriptures.

Yahweh, by any other name, is still a satanic prick.

Regards

DL  

 

[French Patriot]

On 9/9/2020 at 12:01 AM, August1991 said:

Heck, even the Old Testament states: "Thou shalt not kill."

It does indeed, but even Yahweh can't follow his own rules. He murders many.

Jesus can't either if his actions when he initiates Armageddon are as predicted.

Regards

DL