Marocc Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 How do you decide the person you are interviewing is a terrorist or some other individual you would and could prevent from remaining in Canada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 It doesn't matter. As long as we have a system that places 'culture' ahead of everything, it assures conservation of the extremes because anyone NOT arguing in terms of cultural supremacy is itself condemned to be deemed 'haters' of some kind or other. This in turn forces the non-culturally affiliated to select which Cult-preferences of some political party's favored interests who LEAST offends you. The contradiction encourages voter apathy and/or for the most disenfrancized who suffer, they will tend towards those 'terrorist' extremes which only ENHANCE the cultural supremacists to justify strengthening more of the very kind of laws that create the problems in the first place. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Banana Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 48 minutes ago, Marocc said: How do you decide the person you are interviewing is a terrorist or some other individual you would and could prevent from remaining in Canada? Just ask them . . . . but make sure you're politically, sexually, culturally correct. you don't want to offend anyone. No need to drop the facial veil. Ask if they would like some money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said: Just ask them My main point is in what should you ask them. 13 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said: but make sure you're politically, sexually, culturally correct. What does that mean and according to whose culture? 13 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said: Ask if they would like some money. Sounds like a joke, but I don't get it. Why money? 28 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: It doesn't matter. Then to make sure this happens: 29 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: As long as we have a system that places 'culture' ahead of everything, it assures conservation of the extremes How can it be achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Marocc said: 2 hours ago, Scott Mayers said: As long as we have a system that places 'culture' ahead of everything, it assures conservation of the extremes How can it be achieved? How can what be achieved? I was responding to the assumption that one can screen out terrorists at all. That is, I don't believe that given HOW our system is defined by 'cultural' definitions, that it even has the intellectual capacity to KNOW WHO the terrorists even are. We have people in power who think that a unique POSITIVE 'culture' is inbred in everyone's specific DNA but that we should still pretend that the NEGATIVE ones aren't. It's a contradiction to expect we could only have one but not the other as though DNA can tell the difference between 'good' and 'evil' phenotypes (external appearances/expressions reflected by ones genetics). Edited January 25, 2020 by Scott Mayers added "expressions" since "appearance" is static expression by most people's understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said: How can what be achieved? I was responding to the assumption that one can screen out terrorists at all. That is, I don't believe that given HOW our system is defined by 'cultural' definitions, that it even has the intellectual capacity to KNOW WHO the terrorists even are. We have people in power who think that a unique POSITIVE 'culture' is inbred in everyone's specific DNA but that we should still pretend that the NEGATIVE ones aren't. It's a contradiction to expect we could only have one but not the other as though DNA can tell the difference between 'good' and 'evil' phenotypes (external appearances reflected by ones genetics). Okay. Now I understand you. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 9 hours ago, Marocc said: How do you decide the person you are interviewing is a terrorist or some other individual you would and could prevent from remaining in Canada? I don't think there's a way to do that - even if an interview was designed by experts, people determined to do so would figure out how to answer the questions so as not to get 'caught'. I think the solution to identifying terrorists has more to do with identifying the risk factors and then examining the person's environment to find out if any of those factors exist. And it would have to be extended beyond the immigration system; a terrorist planning an attack could just as easily enter the country on a visitor visa or a student visa. But then, there are home-grown terrorists; I think this is more common than people who come here to be terrorists. Even if we were successful at identifying people at the border who are (or would become) terrorists, how do we do the same for people who are born here? And in Canada, which is the greater threat to Canadians - terrorists or cancer? Terrorists or wife-beaters? Terrorists or gang-members? Terrorists or illegal border-crossers? Should a large amount of tax money and government effort go into preventing a relatively rare phenomena or could that money be better spent on programs that would save more lives and have a better chance of success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 13 hours ago, Marocc said: How do you decide the person you are interviewing is a terrorist or some other individual you would and could prevent from remaining in Canada? You conclude this once they've been convicted of committing terrorism. We still subscribe to innocent until proven guilty in Canada. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 16 hours ago, Marocc said: How do you decide the person you are interviewing is a terrorist or some other individual you would and could prevent from remaining in Canada? Ask the Israelis. Apparently they disdain all the pretty (and largely ineffective) tech toys the Americans use to try to keep terrorists off their planes. They train their people in how to read people, in what to ask, in what to look for in behaviour and statements. They're apparently very, very good at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 On 1/25/2020 at 1:18 AM, Marocc said: How do you decide the person you are interviewing is a terrorist or some other individual you would and could prevent from remaining in Canada? Are you saying there is no tell tale signs of being a terrorist or extremists, I mean there are tell tales for murders, other criminals why not terrorist, all that Canada lacks is the will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) If you think interviews are a great way to spot potential terrorists, I've got a bridge to sell you. You might screen out some dumb terrorists that way, but any terrorist who isn't a complete moron knows how to lie. Edited January 26, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Are you saying there is no tell tale signs of being a terrorist or extremists, I mean there are tell tales for murders, other criminals why not terrorist, all that Canada lacks is the will... There are no interview screening processes that weed out criminals very well, it has nothing to do with will, and everything to do with the ability to screen people with interviews not being a good way to catch those breaking the law. Why do you have such faith in interviews to spot bad applicants? Do you think no employers ever made a mistake hiring someone who had a great interview and was a bad employee, or rejected someone who had a bad interview but would have been a great employee? Because that happens all the time, expecting the immigrant screening process to not make any of those mistakes is laughable. Has nothing to do with will whatsoever, interviews just ain't as useful of a tool as you seem to believe. The government not caring enough is not even close to problem here, throwing more money at the problem isn't going to solve it, nor is employing a values test. You may want there to be an easy quick fix that simply requires the will to do it and the problem will be solved, but that is naive wishful thinking. Edited January 26, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marocc Posted January 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Are you saying there is no tell tale signs of being a terrorist or extremists There can be, but there is not always. Why would the signs not show in the current process just the same? A mere noticing of a sign is not sufficient in making a decision. Edited January 26, 2020 by Marocc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Marocc said: Why would the signs not show in the current process just the same? Turns out that any competent terrorist knows how to give answers that mask the fact that they are a terrorist. Who knew? Those who know that interviews and/or values tests don't solve all immigration problems, they knew. Those who don't think the government simply caring enough about the problem would fix the issue, they knew. Edited January 26, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: If you think interviews are a great way to spot potential terrorists, I've got a bridge to sell you. You might screen out some dumb terrorists that way, but any terrorist who isn't a complete moron knows how to lie. I guess the Israelis are just pretending to not get planes hijacked and blown up a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: Turns out that any competent terrorist knows how to give answers that mask the fact that they are a terrorist. Who knew? Tell me, when was the last El Al hijacking or bombing? Edited January 26, 2020 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Argus said: Tell me, when was the last El Al hijacking or bombing? If you think the 9/11 hijackers could have been stopped if they were just given a values test, you are so deluded it's comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: If you think the 9/11 hijackers could have been stopped if they were just given a values test, you are so deluded it's comical. From what I've seen they all would have been stopped by El Al screeners. And we were talking about terrorists, not social values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Argus said: From what I've seen they all would have been stopped by El Al screeners. And we were talking about terrorists, not social values. No they wouldn't have, not with a "Canadian values" interview they couldn't. Your faith in the government to solve problems easily is misguided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: There are no interview screening processes that weed out criminals very well, it has nothing to do with will, and everything to do with the ability to screen people with interviews not being a good way to catch those breaking the law. Why do you have such faith in interviews to spot bad applicants? Do you think no employers ever made a mistake hiring someone who had a great interview and was a bad employee, or rejected someone who had a bad interview but would have been a great employee? Because that happens all the time, expecting the immigrant screening process to not make any of those mistakes is laughable. Has nothing to do with will whatsoever, interviews just ain't as useful of a tool as you seem to believe. The government not caring enough is not even close to problem here, throwing more money at the problem isn't going to solve it, nor is employing a values test. You may want there to be an easy quick fix that simply requires the will to do it and the problem will be solved, but that is naive wishful thinking. Thats not what I said, I said there are already techniques to interview people to find certain things out such as extremists etc., but we lack the will to ie train people to use them. I mean border guards do get training on how to read people, and what questions to ask , I'm sure that training could be refined and used in immigration. Why do I have such faith, well I know it works because reading people has saved the lives of a few military people when working a vehicle check point, looking for IED's and or terrorist...and well i'm far from being an expert i'm sure someone that had more than 5 mins training like we did , could be a lot more effective... Interviewing someone for a job is way different than allowing them into the country. most of the companies I had interviews with were some guy off the floor placed in the HR position with no formal training...And I did not say interviews are the end all be all, one has to take that info and follow it up, such as phoning references, doing back ground / criminal checks etc etc... Not investing into it will also not solve anything, so I guess we are stuck in some endless cycle right.....all solutions require a few things one is will to find a solution, carry it out and to fund it...thats not being naïve thats just how things are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Marocc said: There can be, but there is not always. Why would the signs not show in the current process just the same? A mere noticing of a sign is not sufficient in making a decision. No, but it would be sufficient to follow it up with more questions and more research would it not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Thats not what I said, I said there are already techniques to interview people to find certain things out such as extremists etc., but we lack the will to ie train people to use them. I mean border guards do get training on how to read people, and what questions to ask , I'm sure that training could be refined and used in immigration. Why do I have such faith, well I know it works because reading people has saved the lives of a few military people when working a vehicle check point, looking for IED's and or terrorist...and well i'm far from being an expert i'm sure someone that had more than 5 mins training like we did , could be a lot more effective... Interviewing someone for a job is way different than allowing them into the country. most of the companies I had interviews with were some guy off the floor placed in the HR position with no formal training...And I did not say interviews are the end all be all, one has to take that info and follow it up, such as phoning references, doing back ground / criminal checks etc etc... Not investing into it will also not solve anything, so I guess we are stuck in some endless cycle right.....all solutions require a few things one is will to find a solution, carry it out and to fund it...thats not being naïve thats just how things are. You could get all the interviews you wanted, and the results wouldn't be that different than they are now. The current problems you see, are not because of a lack of interviews or background checks. There are not big dividends to be gained here, the impacts will be barely noticeable. Edited January 26, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted January 26, 2020 Report Share Posted January 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: You could get all the interviews you wanted, and the results wouldn't be that different than they are now. The current problems you see, are not because of a lack of interviews or background checks. There are not big dividends to be gained here, the impacts will be barely noticeable. Great , I mean talking never hurt anyone right, multi conversations should happen, to confirm research or stories, after all this is not a job interview this is letting someone into our nation , possible to become a Canadian citizens right... and yet these conversation have created such a hot topic...anything gained over the current system would be a bonus right, I mean how does Canada become known as a terrorist haven, a haven for known criminals is it because our system is working sort of.... A prime example would be when Canada went to the camps to fill Justins quota, how can one do a criminal check when the Syrian government would not cooperate, or the police stations were in rubble, with no computer records to mention, how could you confirm they were who they were, with out access to some sort of system or files. and how do you confirm who people are that had lost or had no passports or ID... So the real only option was interview... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: A prime example would be when Canada went to the camps to fill Justins quota, how can one do a criminal check when the Syrian government would not cooperate, or the police stations were in rubble, with no computer records to mention, how could you confirm they were who they were, with out access to some sort of system or files. and how do you confirm who people are that had lost or had no passports or ID... So the real only option was interview... Some people can tell just by looking at their peach fuzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: No they wouldn't have, not with a "Canadian values" interview they couldn't. Your faith in the government to solve problems easily is misguided. You're confused again. Have you forgotten what topic we're on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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