One of Canada's last big oil producers leaves

[jacee]

On 11/1/2019 at 12:00 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Canada has the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world.  98% of it is in AB.  Sure let's keep all that money in the ground!

In case you haven't heard ... oil is becoming less valuable, now that we know the full cost of it is destruction of the planet and human life. 

The gravy train is over.

[jacee]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:02 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

Canada accounts for 1.6% of the world's total GHG emissions.  Of that 1.6%, the oil sands make up 10% of Canada's total, meaning the oil sands make up only 0.16% of total global GHG emissions. https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/publications/18731

If the entire oil sands were shut down it would barely make a dent in reducing global GHG.  We need to stop burning fossil fuels globally.

= we need to stop producing and shipping it anywhere in the world.

[jacee]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:34 AM, Argus said:

Scientists say fusion is maybe 15 years away. Once we have that all the electrical power in the western world is going to change over to fusion. The cost of power will drop, not rise. And with increasing battery power people will go electric. We're just not there yet.

Technological development is the only thing which is going to impact global warming. Idiot politicians and the regressive left certainly won't have any affect.

People who push for technological development make a difference. But ultimately, it's investors who bring about large scale change.

We're at the tipping point where renewable energy becomes more profitable than fossil fuels. Investors go where the profits are, and then massive change happens very quickly.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

WestCanMan,

We all care about the oil workers and what's going to happen to them now that the fossil fuel industries have to wind down. Transition plans have to be made and supported provincially and federally. 

Unfortunately, that can't happen unless the Alberta government accepts the reality, and educates and informs the workers.

Denial and blaming and misplaced anger are preventing that progress. And that's what will hurt workers more than anything.  

Alberta's business and government leaders are going to have to suck this up and figure out a realistic and useful way forward. 

Oppositional defiance in the face of new realities isn't leadership: It's just delusional suicidal (and some homicidal) ranting. 

Jason Kenney has made himself irrelevant and even dangerous to Alberta by failing to have a viable vision for the future and, instead, just fanning the flames of hatred against 'the East' and Trudeau. That's just pure and dangerous stupidity.

Nobody did this to Alberta.

That's a fine political speech, but just a farce of an actual, concise commentary of what happened. Oil is still being extracted at 100% production all over the world, everywhere but in Alberta and Sask. All over the world oil still sells for "the price of oil". Alberta oil sells at roughly 50% of what it's worth, sometimes less. 

Trudeau did do this to Alberta and you're the only one denying it.

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The world is changing.

Hatred and violence won't change it back.

WTH are you even talking about? Only one of us is guilty of supporting violent groups like BLM and Antifa. So out to lunch.

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's a fine political speech, but just a farce of an actual, concise commentary of what happened. Oil is still being extracted at 100% production all over the world, everywhere but in Alberta and Sask. All over the world oil still sells for "the price of oil". Alberta oil sells at roughly 50% of what it's worth, sometimes less. 

Trudeau did do this to Alberta and you're the only one denying it.

 

Oil??? That's so old.

Once the power of the dilithium crystal is released, anything is possible...warp travel...tribbles in the grain shipments...Borg encounters. 

You name it.

[Nefarious Banana]

Canada has the third largest oil reserves in the world . . . and we're buying 1,000,000,000 (1 billion) barrels of oil from Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, etc.  Jason Kenney is responsible for the disgust and disdain for Justin Trudeau?  "That's just pure and dangerous stupidity" . . . . 

[eyeball]

16 hours ago, bcsapper said:

There wouldn't be much point in stopping if the shortfall would be made up immediately by another producer.

This is the lamest excuse for business as usual bar none.  The obvious counter is to immediately sanction and stop doing business with the other producer.

If business is war then perhaps we should make environmental protection more warlike too.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

This is the lamest excuse for business as usual bar none.  The obvious counter is to immediately sanction and stop doing business with the other producer.

If business is war then perhaps we should make environmental protection more warlike too.

Okay, I can see that.  Let's stop producing oil and gas, and stop dealing with anyone who does.

That'll do the trick, eh?

It's actually quite a selfish comment coming from someone who (I assume) heats their home with hydro electric power.

 

 

[Cannucklehead]

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Okay, I can see that.  Let's stop producing oil and gas, and stop dealing with anyone who does.

That'll do the trick, eh?

It's actually quite a selfish comment coming from someone who (I assume) heats their home with hydro electric power.

 

 

Personally I'd like to go off the grid for both but it's not feasible for me atm.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Personally I'd like to go off the grid for both but it's not feasible for me atm.  

Just ditch the cellphone and the internet.  It'll seem the same.

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Okay, I can see that.  Let's stop producing oil and gas, and stop dealing with anyone who does.

That'll do the trick, eh?

It's actually quite a selfish comment coming from someone who (I assume) heats their home with hydro electric power.

I burn wood to heat my home, I also burn about 200 - 300 liters of fuel at work every day plus I drive my car to climate change rallies.

The hypocrisy card won't get anyone anywhere either - the real reason being the moral imperative society imposes on everyone to carry their own weight.  Unless you're very wealthy or very poor its very difficult to live without a carbon footprint. The weight of the moral imperative makes it even more difficult for anyone who isn't wealthy. You put your money where your mouth is. I think if you expect the concern you voice for the environment to be respected when you tell people to put their money where their mouths are you're going to have to put some up yourself.

I propose carbon offsets be granted to concerned hypocrites people who eschew fossil fuels, so they can continue to pay their mortgages and meet the economic imperatives of life - these offsets would be paid for thru carbon taxes collected from concerned  people hypocrites who still wish to live a business as usual life. 

I would suggest this moral imperative is actually one of the biggest impediments to our ability to do anything meaningful about our predicament.

Edited November 4, 2019 by eyeball

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I burn wood to heat my home, I also burn about 200 - 300 liters of fuel at work every day plus I drive my car to climate change rallies.

The hypocrisy card won't get anyone anywhere either - the real reason being the moral imperative society imposes on everyone to carry their own weight.  Unless you're very wealthy or very poor its very difficult to live without a carbon footprint. The weight of the moral imperative makes it even more difficult for anyone who isn't wealthy. You put your money where your mouth is. I think if you expect the concern you voice for the environment to be respected when you tell people to put their money where their mouths are you're going to have to put some up yourself.

I propose carbon offsets be granted to hypocrites people who eschew fossil fuels, so they can continue to pay their mortgages and meet the economic imperatives of life - these offsets would be paid for thru carbon tax collected from people who still wish to live a business as usual life. 

 

If it's difficult to live without a carbon footprint it would be difficult to live without hydrocarbon production.  So what are we arguing about?  You're okay with everone else continuing production (to the detriment of the environment compared to when we produce it)  but you want us to stop.  For no noticable effect whatsoever. 

But you want to continue using hydrocarbons when you need to.  (And, dare I say, when you want to)  So the other producers would have to step it up a little to keep you supplied.

But you would feel better about yourself if it came from somewhere else?  The atmosphere doesn't care.

Talking of hypocricy, here's a suggestion:  Let the LNG pipeline to Kitimat go through as quickly as possible, and stop shipping coal to Asia from Roberts Bank.  That's bound to have a beneficial effect on atmospheric greenhouse gas levels.

Could you talk to Horgan about it?  Mention my name.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You're okay with everone else continuing production (to the detriment of the environment compared to when we produce it)  but you want us to stop.  For no noticable effect whatsoever. 

No. I'm not okay with that at all which is why I advocate for sanctions against countries that try to bypass countries who are taking action and trying to do the right thing.

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But you want to continue using hydrocarbons when you need to.  (And, dare I say, when you want to)  So the other producers would have to step it up a little to keep you supplied.

I don't want to I have to because of moral imperative we're all under.

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But you would feel better about yourself if it came from somewhere else?  The atmosphere doesn't care.

 

If what came from somewhere else, oil?  We shouldn't be shipping any fossil fuels in or out of Canada. We should be weaning ourselves off them using our own supplies.  Of course the atmosphere doesn't care because it doesn't have any feelings.

Quote

 

Talking of hypocricy, here's a suggestion:  Let the LNG pipeline to Kitimat go through as quickly as possible, and stop shipping coal to Asia from Roberts Bank.  That's bound to have a beneficial effect on atmospheric greenhouse gas levels.

Could you talk to Horgan about it?  Mention my name.

 

Playing the association card is about as helpful as the hypocrisy card.   That said there is an even better reason for stopping these shipments. We shouldn't be doing business with anyone where doing so helps make dangerous dictatorships more powerful. Of course that suggestion will probably just bring you back to the old "why not, if we don't someone else will' argument.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

No. I'm not okay with that at all which is why I advocate for sanctions against countries that try to bypass countries who are taking action and trying to do the right thing.

I don't want to I have to because of moral imperative we're all under.

If what came from somewhere else, oil?  We shouldn't be shipping any fossil fuels in or out of Canada. We should be weaning ourselves off them using our own supplies.  Of course the atmosphere doesn't care because it doesn't have any feelings.

Playing the association card is about as helpful as the hypocrisy card.   That said there is an even better reason for stopping these shipments. We shouldn't be doing business with anyone where doing so helps make dangerous dictatorships more powerful. Of course that suggestion will probably just bring you back to the old "why not, if we don't someone else will' argument.

Everything you say is a fantasy.  It's okay to dream, (I know it is, but England aren't ever going to win the World Cup) but you have to understand it's a dream.

The Roberts Bank comment is concerned with neither association nor hypocricy, when you get right down to it.  It's only example.  Example of why nothing meaningful will be done to stop climate change, and why virtue suffering won't make a blind bit of difference.  If some of the most woke people in the country, with one of the most woke governments in the country, can still put their economy before their beliefs, everyone can.  And will.

Invest in sandbags.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Everything you say is a fantasy.  It's okay to dream,

The fact it's entirely doable makes it okay.

 

Quote

The Roberts Bank comment is concerned with neither association nor hypocricy, when you get right down to it.  It's only example.  Example of why nothing meaningful will be done to stop climate change, and why virtue suffering won't make a blind bit of difference.

Like I said the bigger issue here IMO is that most of our fossil fuel trade does/will empower the most dangerous totalitarian dictatorship on the planet and in so doing throwing up an even bigger impediment to taking action.  Why?  Because someone else will if we don't.  It's pretty fricken disgraceful the lengths we'll go to ensure its our grandkids who suffer instead of us.

 

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If some of the most woke people in the country, with one of the most woke governments in the country, can still put their economy before their beliefs, everyone can.  And will.

Sure they will, BTW got those pipelines built yet or still just fantasizing about it?  The only thing standing in their path are a few heads and if other countries can knock them aside when the economy calls for it we can too.  Like you said people can always dream and we have a comatose PM with an admiration for the way dictatorships can make things happen.  At the moment your dream is the likelier one to be realized.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The fact it's entirely doable makes it okay.

 

Like I said the bigger issue here IMO is that most of our fossil fuel trade does/will empower the most dangerous totalitarian dictatorship on the planet and in so doing throwing up an even bigger impediment to taking action.  Why?  Because someone else will if we don't.  It's pretty fricken disgraceful the lengths we'll go to ensure its our grandkids who suffer instead of us.

 

Sure they will, BTW got those pipelines built yet or still just fantasizing about it?  The only thing standing in their path are a few heads and if other countries can knock them aside when the economy calls for it we can too.  Like you said people can always dream and we have a comatose PM with an admiration for the way dictatorships can make things happen.  At the moment your dream is the likelier one to be realized.

Sure, we can both dream.  The pipeline is doable to, but you're right, it might never happen.  Neither will the stuff you fantasize about.  We will both carry on using fossil fuels exactly as much as we need to, (and then some.  People still have ATVs and go on vacation, believe it or not.  They still have gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers, and we still have fireworks on Canada Day) and the producers will keep on producing exactly as much as they can sell.  And greenhouse gases will keep on increasing in the atmosphere, and concerned people will pick another city to meet in so they can name an "accord" after something.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sure, we can both dream.  The pipeline is doable to, but you're right, it might never happen.  Neither will the stuff you fantasize about.  We will both carry on using fossil fuels exactly as much as we need to, (and then some.  People still have ATVs and go on vacation, believe it or not.  They still have gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers, and we still have fireworks on Canada Day) and the producers will keep on producing exactly as much as they can sell.  And greenhouse gases will keep on increasing in the atmosphere, and concerned people will pick another city to meet in so they can name an "accord" after something.

Why do you even bother posting in threads like this?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why do you even bother posting in threads like this?

Because you do.  I'm arguing in kind.

You are one of many who think that climate change can be fought if only "we do something".  It's absolute nonsense.

I try and get you to see it, but it's very difficult.

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Oil??? That's so old.

Once the power of the dilithium crystal is released, anything is possible...warp travel...tribbles in the grain shipments...Borg encounters. 

You name it.

Make the jump  to ludicrous speed! Use the Schwartz!

[jacee]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

That's a fine political speech, but just a farce of an actual, concise commentary of what happened. Oil is still being extracted at 100% production all over the world, everywhere but in Alberta and Sask. All over the world oil still sells for "the price of oil". Alberta oil sells at roughly 50% of what it's worth, sometimes less. 

Trudeau did do this to Alberta and you're the only one denying it.

I literally hate every single person who voted for Trudeau.

You're the one promoting hatred, and that alt-right mentality of division, blame and violence is really not helpful to anybody. Trudeau is just a convenient punching bag. 

BC's reluctance to incur environmental damage from pipelines and shipping is a major stumbling block. You would think that Alberta would have been anticipating and negotiating diplomatically about that for decades, instead of waiting until the last minute and then threatening them. Not a productive approach. And then you blame Trudeau?  Ridiculous. 

Climate change is a reality. Addressing it immediately is a necessity. Alberta's pipe dreams of a return of oil's glory days never were a realistic plan for the future, and they never made another plan, as they were pissing away everything they made. Coming down from the highest earnings in the country is a shock, no doubt. But when you're blaming and hating workers in 'the East' who NEVER made that kind of money ... wtf do you expect us to say?!! 

Yes, we hope the Alberta government and federal Conservatives out there start collaborating on some more realistic plans for employing Albertans for the future. 

Wtf else can we say? Fanning hatred among oil workers isn't going to improve their futures. The misery of hopelessness isn't helpful to them. Better planning by government would be helpful to them. Get ahead of the curve in renewable energy ... because the fortunes of oil producing jurisdictions worldwide are about to hit the skids as profitability of renewable energy overtakes and passes fossil fuels. 

[Argus]

18 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Here's another site that came up when I was looking.  (I've seen it before.  Maybe on here.  Apologies if I'm double posting on someone)

Check out the map.  All those black and red folk have to get down to our brown level before it makes any sense to even give it a shot.

https://climateactiontracker.org/

Go Morocco, eh?

Even this is heavily politicized. The US is horrible, but China isn't so bad, and India even better! Despite both these countries increasing their emissions much faster than the US through building coal fired power plants.

[Argus]

6 hours ago, jacee said:

Interesting how climate change suddenly becomes the sole  creation of one "half-wit drama teacher".  Lol 

Like no Conservative has ever been aware of decades of science and warnings that the fossil fuel industry is a serious problem for humanity.

Modern societies are predicated on lots of cheap energy. Right now that's fossil fuels. Without it, hundreds of millions more would live in utter poverty.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Argus

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

Even this is heavily politicized. The US is horrible, but China isn't so bad, and India even better! Despite both these countries increasing their emissions much faster than the US through building coal fired power plants.

That's because they have been given unti 2030 to get going on stuff, and with China especially, I don't think it takes into account what they are doing in other countries.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That's because they have been given unti 2030 to get going on stuff, and with China especially, I don't think it takes into account what they are doing in other countries.

The IMF will no longer loan money to governments to build coal fired power plants. But hark, here comes China to the rescue! China's new international development bank has no problem at all loaning money for coal plants! It and it's partners (like Canada) will readily make money available so that more Asian countries can build them!

[WestCanMan]

56 minutes ago, jacee said:

You're the one promoting hatred, and that alt-right mentality of division, blame and violence is really not helpful to anybody. Trudeau is just a convenient punching bag. 

BC's reluctance to incur environmental damage from pipelines and shipping is a major stumbling block. You would think that Alberta would have been anticipating and negotiating diplomatically about that for decades, instead of waiting until the last minute and then threatening them. Not a productive approach. And then you blame Trudeau?  Ridiculous. 

Climate change is a reality. Addressing it immediately is a necessity. Alberta's pipe dreams of a return of oil's glory days never were a realistic plan for the future, and they never made another plan, as they were pissing away everything they made. Coming down from the highest earnings in the country is a shock, no doubt. But when you're blaming and hating workers in 'the East' who NEVER made that kind of money ... wtf do you expect us to say?!! 

Yes, we hope the Alberta government and federal Conservatives out there start collaborating on some more realistic plans for employing Albertans for the future. 

Wtf else can we say? Fanning hatred among oil workers isn't going to improve their futures. The misery of hopelessness isn't helpful to them. Better planning by government would be helpful to them. Get ahead of the curve in renewable energy ... because the fortunes of oil producing jurisdictions worldwide are about to hit the skids as profitability of renewable energy overtakes and passes fossil fuels. 

screed

/skrēd/noun

1. a long speech or piece of writing, typically one regarded as tedious.

 

I just talked about plain, hard, verifiable facts, you're talking about your emotional reaction to facts, and making accusations based on your misguided emotions.

Your feelings don't matter here. 130,000+ REAL jobs (family-supporting, private-sector jobs, not part-time burista jobs or public-sector drain-on-the-federal-budget jobs ) were lost. The lost revenue is $200,000,000.00 per DAY. That actually matters.

 

It's ok to you that Trudeau created a law (tucked into the far back of a 600-page omnibus bill) to protect a crooked corporation (known to bribe liberal politicians with large sums of money) from justice, then broke another sacred democratic trust to force the AG to use his shiny new law to protect that crooked corporation, and that he paid CBC and select media outlets $1,395,000,000.00 to cover his back. I get that, and when I want to hear the hot new platitude I'll pop in and see what's up.