95% of plastic in the oceans comes from 3rd world

[Owly]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

But they want us to.  They get paid, remember?  Even the third world has to eat.

 

Hard to eat plastic.

[Guest]

Just now, Owly said:

Hard to eat plastic.

They don't get paid in plastic.  Unless it's Visa.

[Owly]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

They don't get paid in plastic.  Unless it's Visa.

Well when expired visa cards start clogging your beach get back to us.

[Guest]

Just now, Owly said:

Well when expired visa cards start clogging your beach get back to us.

I was just thinking how awful it would be to take away a source of income from the third world, one that could put much needed food on the table, and help people to get a leg up out of the devastating poverty they experience. 

Of course, they could do a better job.

 

[Owly]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I was just thinking how awful it would be to take away a source of income from the third world, one that could put much needed food on the table, and help people to get a leg up out of the devastating poverty they experience. 

Of course, they could do a better job.

 

Instead of lining a few pockets just to get the garbage off the lawn and out of sight, we should help the third world countries where we send it, if we continue to do so, to improve their infrastructure system to be able to deal with it properly. The most plastic garbage in the world is certainly not produced in the third world.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Owly said:

Instead of lining a few pockets just to get the garbage off the lawn and out of sight, we should help the third world countries where we send it, if we continue to do so, to improve their infrastructure system to be able to deal with it properly. The most plastic garbage in the world is certainly not produced in the third world.

I agree thirld word corruption is an issue.  If we could just make sure the payments go to honest people.

I don't think production was the issue.

[Owly]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I agree thirld word corruption is an issue.  If we could just make sure the payments go to honest people.

I don't think production was the issue.

The issue is obviously disposal, not production. And sending our garbage to places that don't have the infrastructure to deal with it has nothing to do with payments going to honest people, but perhaps more to do with the honesty of those making the payments.

[Guest]

Just now, Owly said:

The issue is obviously disposal, not production. And sending our garbage to places that don't have the infrastructure to deal with it has nothing to do with payments going to honest people, but perhaps more to do with the honesty of those making the payments.

You mentioned production.  I think they could probably ask for a raise if they actually got rid of it instead of hiding it in the oceans.

[Argus]

On 3/30/2019 at 8:40 AM, BubberMiley said:

Not to discount your experience having to ask for a straw, but are you aware of the amount of "First World" garbage that is shipped to and disposed of in "Third World" countries? Also, are you proposing an aid program to help them reduce their waste (as we all share the planet) or are you just advocating for more straw waste?

Every country is independent. They have whatever environmental rules they want. There's precious little I can do about that. I know that regular household garbage like mine does not get shipped abroad, so it's not winding up in the oceans. 

And why should I pay so that China or Indonesia can reduce their waste? If they want to live in a garbage pit let them.

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Owly said:

That is of course true. Contrary to what argus tries to claim, the majority of the plastic waste in the waters of developing countries is shipped there from first world countries, like the US. Especially since China has curtailed it's acceptance of it for recycling.

Most of what is shipped to the third world are electronic parts, chemicals. Some plastic (not straws) is also shipped for recycling - for RECYCLING - not to be thrown into the damn ocean

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Owly said:

No, the first world is just shipping it away to third world countries just to get it off their doorstep even though they know there is no infrastructure to deal with it there. Stupid bastards!!

So it's our fault for agreeing to ship it to countries which say they will recycle it, not their fault for not doing it properly? That seems like paternalistic bullshit.
Do you have any evidence the plastic waste shipped for recycling winds up in oceans as opposed to locally produced garbage being thrown in without processing?

[Argus]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I was just thinking how awful it would be to take away a source of income from the third world, one that could put much needed food on the table, and help people to get a leg up out of the devastating poverty they experience. 

Omni doesn't think like that. He believes that we should sort of 'parent' third world countries, because they're not really capable of making their own decisions.

[Owly]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

Most of what is shipped to the third world are electronic parts, chemicals. Some plastic (not straws) is also shipped for recycling - for RECYCLING - not to be thrown into the damn ocean

Shipped to places that don't have the abilities in their infrastructure to recycle it. But, out of sight out of mind.

[Argus]

Just now, Owly said:

Shipped to places that don't have the abilities in their infrastructure to recycle it. But, out of sight out of mind.

Why are they asking for it if they haven't got the infrastructure? And what evidence do you have that this is even true, or that any of that material is winding up in the ocean?

[Owly]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Why are they asking for it if they haven't got the infrastructure? And what evidence do you have that this is even true, or that any of that material is winding up in the ocean?

A quote from a previous post.

“Instead of taking responsibility for their own waste, US companies are exploiting developing countries that lack the regulation to protect themselves,” said John Hocevar, Oceans campaign director for Greenpeace USA.

The waste, some of which consists of household recycling produced in the US, includes single-use plastic bottles, plastic bags and food wrappings, said Hocevar. It can, however, contain toxic materials.

“It’s a problem for the US and other developed countries to produce, often, toxic material which they can’t or won’t take care of themselves.”

 

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Owly said:

A quote from a previous post.

“Instead of taking responsibility for their own waste, US companies are exploiting developing countries that lack the regulation to protect themselves,” said John Hocevar, Oceans campaign director for Greenpeace USA.

This is just back to being paternalistic about these countries because we know better how they should behave. "lack the regulation to protect themselves"? Who makes the regulations? They do!

[Owly]

Just now, Argus said:

This is just back to being paternalistic about these countries because we know better how they should behave. "lack the regulation to protect themselves"? Who makes the regulations? They do!

Who sends them the garbage knowing that: we do.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Owly said:

Surely you're not suggesting that anyone here would post a site which supports their claim regardless of it having a reputation as being a "Questionable Source"

I guess your birthday is March 30, 2019 ? 

[Owly]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I guess your birthday is March 30, 2019 ? 

If only!

[BubberMiley]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

This is just back to being paternalistic about these countries because we know better how they should behave. "lack the regulation to protect themselves"? Who makes the regulations? They do!

So you're blaming them because your straws wound up in the ocean. I guess it's true that conservatives really only believe in personal responsibility for others.

Perfect that you use that as excuse to whine about having to ask for a straw.

Edited April 1, 2019 by BubberMiley

[Argus]

6 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

So you're blaming them because your straws wound up in the ocean. I guess it's true that conservatives really only believe in personal responsibility for others.

Perfect that you use that as excuse to whine about having to ask for a straw.

Your response lacks anything even remotely approaching logic. I point out they make the rules. They are the masters of their own destiny. They decide what they will and will not take and how to handle it. And then you express indignation that I'm 'blaming them' for my straws winding up in the ocean (btw, they don't).

This just reinforces my belief that to many on the Left, 'brown people' are not really humans, not like white people. They're sort of... child-like creatures in need of guidance and protection, incapable of being held to the same sorts of standards as true human beings because of their skin colour. "We mustn't ever expect them to know what's best for them, much less do it, and mustn't ever judge them for going astray, for they can't help themselves. They're just not smart enough or wise enough - unlike we noble, kindly, generous liberal white people who will protect and guide them."

[DogOnPorch]

I always thought paper straws worked jus' fine.

[Altai]

%100 of your wealth is also coming from the countries which you try to insult with your little brain by naming "third" :  )))


 

[BubberMiley]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Your response lacks anything even remotely approaching logic. I point out they make the rules. They are the masters of their own destiny. They decide what they will and will not take and how to handle it. And then you express indignation that I'm 'blaming them' for my straws winding up in the ocean (btw, they don't).

 

This just reinforces my belief that entitled baby boomer conservatives will deny any reality that suggests they should take personal responsibility for their own actions. They'll blame "the Left", millenials, immigrants or brown people in general for the problems they themselves caused.

Edited April 1, 2019 by BubberMiley

[Argus]

18 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

This just reinforces my belief that entitled baby boomer conservatives will deny any reality that suggests they should take personal responsibility for their own actions. They'll blame "the Left", millenials, immigrants or brown people in general for the problems they themselves caused.

More paternalistic crap. You want 'entitled baby boomer conservatives' to take personal responsible for our own actions but the very idea of having 'brown people' take responsible for theirs fills you with horror and outrage. If most of the plastic pollution was coming from us or Europe you'd be pounding your fist on the desk demanding we stop. But because they're 'brown people' countries you simper and whine and find a way to somehow blame white people. My plastic winds up recycled or in a landfill here, not in the ocean. Go complain to the Indians and Chinese and Thais. Ooops, can't do that! They're not white! So they can't be responsible!