Should Canada suspend relations with China?

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't even feel much need to argue, fool's errand, I simply call it like I see it and publish it to the internet as a scratch pad e-book for all intents and purposes, by way of the Invision Community internet publishing service.   As our friend down south says "you write your book, I'll write mine"

Barely any argument here at all anyways, it's 90% fallacious, so all you can do it point out which fallacy is being peddled, at 90% fallacy yield, there's nothing there to argue with anyways.

Our books cut right through the signal to noise ratio anyway, Flight To Quality FTW, America Knows. Keep calm and carry on in face of fallacious prattle, that's the way to roll.

The best way to punish China is not by punishing Canadians for buying Chinese, or punishing the Chinese for buying Canadian, and/or by suspending relations with China. You'd figure that would be obvious, but Eskimo Communists of course remain oblivious, and they over-estimate how much China needs Canada while underestimating how much Canada needs China.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Our books cut right through the signal to noise ratio anyway, Flight to Quality FTW, America Knows. Keep calm and carry on in face of fallacious prattle, that's the way to roll.

Plus NHL Hockey Talk amongst the red and green maples in the confederacy which won the war and lived to tell the tale.  VRI.  Yeehaw.

[Yzermandius19]

If you want China to do less shit that pisses off Canadians? Try bribing them for good behavior, enough of the Virtue Signaling Sin Taxes which will only backfire.

VSST For The Fail. Not that the nanny state prohibitionists know any other way of doing business, which is why it's their first thought, every time.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

When you're number one, a lot people hate on you, no matter what you do, including terrorists. Acting like terrorists would never attack America if they had a different foreign policy is to project on the terrorists, sure US foreign policy has occasionally made for a good recruiting tool for terrorists, but without it, there would be plenty of terrorism and they'd likely target the United States.

Also when it comes to communists screwing the pooch, China inspires plenty of terrorism itself, or haven't you noticed?
 

Making your opponent quit the fight because they don't think the fight is worth it anymore, especially when it's the British Empire at the top of it's game, impressive as f***, quite the upset, even in hindsight. Also, The US not being all that desirable is clearly partially a backwards rationalization on the part of British Empire to fool themselves into thinking losing wasn't that bad anyway, "At Least We Didn't Lose India" lulz.

As for something a little more on topic: Canada suspending relations with China, would hurt Canada far more than it hurts China, so obviously, it's a bad idea to do so, and not mention it's vacuous virtue signaling which will accomplish nothing. China isn't going to clean up it's act because Canada tries to push them around, if anything, Canada is going to come begging to China to forgive them for trying to force China to clean up their act, when they finally come to their senses, if they ever went down that road for some baffling reason.

Explain this.  China benefits far more from sales to Canada than the reverse.  Canada was thriving before China’s export boom.  

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If you want China to do less shit that pisses off Canadians? Try bribing them for good behavior, enough of the Virtue Signaling Sin Taxes which will only backfire.

VSST For The Fail. Not that the nanny state prohibitionists know any other way of doing business, which is why it's their first thought, every time.

Prohibition of what?   More freedoms in Canada, including legal weed.  

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Explain this.  China benefits far more from sales to Canada than the reverse.  Canada was thriving before China’s export boom.  

Canada buys more Chinese stuff than the Chinese buy Canadian stuff, therefore, Canadian consumers would be losing out on more products they want to buy than Chinese consumers would be losing out on products they want to buy, if the countries no longer engaged in trade.

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Prohibition of what?   More freedoms in Canada, including legal weed.  

Prohibition of Chinese relations and/or exports, that's what some are suggesting in this thread, derp. It's not enough that the people suggesting this don't like the Chinese, they want to force all other Canadians to be subjected to sin taxes to virtue signal against China, if those people do things that the nanny staters don't approve of, nanny state prohibitionists trying to "save people from themselves", yet again.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada buys more Chinese stuff than the Chinese buy Canadian stuff, therefore, Canadian consumers would be losing out on more products they want to buy than Chinese consumers would be losing out on products they want to buy, if the countries no longer engaged in trade.

No, countries want to export, not import, because exporting creates jobs and wealth.  Yes, cheap imports help consumers, but they also drive down wages and eliminate jobs.  Imports only help a country if the country cannot produce or does not have the goods domestically.  For example, Canada doesn’t have citrus fruit, so we import it.  That’s where USMCA, free trade with Chile, the CETA free trade with Europe, and the TTP with Japan and other Pacific Rim countries was brilliant.  We opened up export markets and ensured access to affordable imports.  Sometimes a small country like Canada has no choice but to import technology from a particular sector, because, though we produce high tech goods, it’s hard for a small country to produce everything, obviously.  Canada needs to focus on exporting, and no doubt China has given us a big trade deficit.  Canada used to have multi-billion dollar trade surpluses, even when the US didn’t. We rely too much on cheap imports these days, like the US and many developed countries. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

28 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Prohibition of Chinese relations and/or exports, that's what some are suggesting in this thread, derp. It's not enough that the people suggesting this don't like the Chinese, they want to force all other Canadians to be subjected to sin taxes to virtue signal against China, if those people do things that the nanny staters don't approve of, nanny state prohibitionists trying to "save people from themselves", yet again.

You need more sin taxes on vodka in Russia, so your workers become more productive and men live past age 60. 

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

You need more sin taxes on vodka in Russia, so your workers become more productive and men live past age 60. 

A sin tax is far from the best way to achieve that goal, sin taxes are counter-productive.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

A sin tax is far from the best way to achieve that goal, sin taxes are counter-productive.

I disagree.  Use the tax revenue for health and education.  All progressive democracies do this.  It’s one of the ways you advance a society, disincentivizing bad behaviour and supporting a desired outcome.  

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, countries want to export, not import, because exporting creates jobs and wealth.  Yes, cheap imports help consumers, but they also drive down wages and eliminate jobs.  Imports only help a country if the country cannot produce or does not have the goods domestically. Canada needs to focus on exporting, and no doubt China has given us a big trade deficit.  Canada used to have multi-billion dollar trade surpluses, even when the US didn’t. We rely too much on cheap imports these days, like the US and many developed countries. 

Mercantilist drivel.
/shrugs

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada's GDP is much more dependent on exports [31%], compared to China [20%] ...or the USA [12%].  

75% of Canada's exports go to a single nation.....China and USA are far more diversified for export trade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_trade-to-GDP_ratio

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

I disagree.  Use the tax revenue for health and education.  All progressive democracies do this.  It’s one of the ways you advance a society, disincentivizing bad behaviour and supporting a desired outcome.  

Backfires pretty much every time, it's one of the WORST ways to attempt to advance a society. All progressive democracies are hurting themselves with sin taxes.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada's GDP is much more dependent on exports [31%], compared to China [20%] ...or the USA [12%].  

75% of Canada's exports go to a single nation.....China and USA are far more diversified for export trade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_trade-to-GDP_ratio

Apples and oranges.  Small countries need to trade and be light on their feet and are better equipped to be light on their feet.  The advantage for larger countries is that they are big markets for the goods they produce.  Even without the big US market to the south, Canada has to be a trade nation. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Backfires pretty much every time, it's one of the WORST ways to attempt to advance a society. All progressive democracies are hurting themselves with sin taxes.

All research and science says otherwise.  

[Yzermandius19]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Apples and oranges.  Small countries need to trade and be light on their feet and are better equipped to be light on their feet.  The advantage for larger countries is that they are big markets for the goods they produce.  Even without the big US market to the south, Canada has to be a trade nation. 

Both exports and imports can be a positive thing, it's not one or the other.

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Apples and oranges.  Small countries need to trade and be light on their feet and are better equipped to be light on their feet. 

 

Canada is not a small nation for GDP or geographic size.    Trade diversification should be a priority.   The USA and China are #1 trading partners, despite many conflicts.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada is not a small nation for GDP or geographic size.    Trade diversification should be a priority.   The USA and China are #1 trading partners, despite many conflicts.

Canada can't get out of the ditch because there are no property rights in Canada, ergo no Flight to Quality to Canada, quite the opposite, thus Canada is reduced to a Nanny Socialist Welfare Gulag made of net loss corporate welfare fake jobs provided by American multinationals and resource extraction to try to make up the losses.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada can't get out of the ditch because there are no property rights in Canada, ergo no Flight to Quality to Canada, quite the opposite, thus Canada is reduced to a Nanny Socialist Welfare Gulag made of net loss corporate welfare fake jobs provided by American multinationals and resource extraction to try to make up the losses.

 

Agreed....Canada lacks enough domestic capital to leverage such opportunities.   China, copying the Americans, will buy lots of Canada on the cheap.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Agreed....Canada lacks enough domestic capital to leverage such opportunities.   China, copying the Americans, will buy lots of Canada on the cheap.

Canada cannot progress beyond being a colonial protectorate unless and until Canada opens the constitution up to correct the errors of 1982.

But Canada cannot do that because Confederation is a failed state and so as soon as they open the constitution Quebec is free without even having a referendum.

Ergo, stuck in the ditch until;

a) We let Quebec go.

b) We kick them out by going first.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada needs China more than China needs Canada,

No. Short term, some companies would have to scramble to replace some of the junk China sells, but it wouldn't be hard. 
Most of the stuff Canada sells China are raw resources. Which means China has to buy them somewhere on the open market, so if they do, Canada just sells to whoever would have bought the stuff China bought. We should focus on Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and other capitalist, western Asian countries.

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I see no reason to deny the "Confucius" society type organizations the right to free speech,

A number of US senators want them to register as foreign agents. I simply want them to go away as I see no reason to allow the foreign agents of a hostile foreign power to openly operate within Canada. We get no benefit from these organizations, which work to undermine national sovereignty and influence Canadians (esp Chinese Canadians) against Canada.

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I see no reason not to take Chinese students or foreign workers.

Too many spies among them.

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I see no reason to prevent Chinese companies from investing in Canada, and I don't see screening on Chinese immigrants to be as lax as you seem to imagine.

Chinese companies are all working for the Chinese Communist Party. We don't want the Chinese Communist party owning anything in Canada. And the screening of immigrants is virtually non-existent. Almost none are ever even interviewed. We simply process the paperwork.

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You want to ramp up combating Chinese hackers, that I can get on board with, the rest of your post is simply an ill-founded anti-Chinese diatribe.
Last I checked, comparing America to Canada, and to Commies, like the Chinese, 

You call it anti-Chinese diatribe yet you've ranted about 'commies' for several pages. Anyway, you don't get a vote.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I expected as much coming in, no real surprises there. This thread topic is a perfect example of that, because Canada is caught in the middle of a Rah-Rah Merica' and Franco-Commie China trade dispute, the White Knuckled Nanny Police Staters of the forum demand that Canada virtue signal that it has the moral high ground on China by suspending relations with them. Even when it's pointed out that doing so would hurt Canada and Canadians more than it hurts China and the Chinese, they simply do not care, all that matter to them is the virtue signaling, consequences be damned.

No, genius, what matters to us is national security. That's apparently a concept you have no time for.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

No, genius, what matters to us is national security. That's apparently a concept you have no time for.

I'm all for national security, but red scare scapegoating has little to do with it.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

I'm all for national security, but red scare scapegoating has little to do with it.

Canada is not responsible for its own natsec anyways, even the Communications Security Establishment is just a creature of the NSA, it's not like CSE is free to conduct its own operations independent of Fort Meade, and other than CSE, Canada doesn't really have any effective national security arms. CSIS not really being an MI5 and the Mounties not really being a Special Branch.