turningrite Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) I attended a medical appointment earlier today and after so doing dropped into a large food court nearby for lunch. After my attendant, whom I require due to a serious mobility issue, brought my food tray to the table I asked if he noticed anything unusual.. He visually scanned the area and said the only thing he noticed was that we were among the few Caucasians in the room. I concurred, noting that the food court is astride a complex of provincial government offices thus rendering the demographic composition of the lunch crowd quite usual for that location based on my prior experience. But, I asked him, had he not noticed that there were absolutely no Christmas decorations in sight. "You're right," he responded with surprise, going on to wonder whether somebody had complained about them. After finishing lunch we went into a store adjacent to the food court and I asked the clerk why there weren't Christmas decorations in the vicinity and she said that she too was puzzled because this was the first time during her years working at that location that Christmas had gone unacknowledged. I'm not a particularly religious person and therefore not really offended by the absence of Christmas decor in such a location, but it made me wonder whether it's now the time to abolish all religious symbolism from the public sphere? If we can get by without Christmas, why do we bother allowing or acknowledging any other kind of religious tradition or symbolism? For the sake of diversity, maybe all religion needs to go. Edited December 19, 2018 by turningrite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 1 hour ago, turningrite said: I attended a medical appointment earlier today and after so doing dropped into a large food court nearby for lunch. After my attendant, whom I require due to a serious mobility issue, brought my food tray to the table I asked if he noticed anything unusual.. He visually scanned the area and said the only thing he noticed was that we were among the few Caucasians in the room. I concurred, noting that the food court is astride a complex of provincial government offices thus rendering the demographic composition of the lunch crowd quite usual for that location based on my prior experience. But, I asked him, had he not noticed that there were absolutely no Christmas decorations in sight. "You're right," he responded with surprise, going on to wonder whether somebody had complained about them. After finishing lunch we went into a store adjacent to the food court and I asked the clerk why there weren't Christmas decorations in the vicinity and she said that she too was puzzled because this was the first time during her years working at that location that Christmas had gone unacknowledged. I'm not a particularly religious person and therefore not really offended by the absence of Christmas decor in such a location, but it made me wonder whether it's now the time to abolish all religious symbolism from the public sphere? If we can get by without Christmas, why do we bother allowing or acknowledging any other kind of religious tradition or symbolism? For the sake of diversity, maybe all religion needs to go. First off Christmas is a pagan holiday. Secondly Christians and pagans should have full rights to celebrate any version of it and I think its a farse its become politically incorrect and I am a Jewish guy. The majority of Canadians are Christian and Christians let me have two days off and give me presents. They are its too strange people but what is the big deal? Why does everyone pick on them? O.k. they do have that wierd habit of serving ham with a hairnet. That is a tad kinky. Look Christians invented golf ware, , sunburns, golf, Oldsmobiles,, pet food (think about that one) ear-hair, bushy eyebrows, we should appreciate their contributions. p.s. not all of them are pink-grey-green-blue, some are yellow and brown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, veryflightz said: Religions don't really need to go If any religious celebration that needs to be protected and celebrated in Canada it is Christmas because it has always been the tradition in Canada to do so for centuries now. But since multiculturalism was introduced and promoted and pushed on Canadians it has started to dwindle away. At one time in our Canadian schools Christmas was celebrated and Christmas trees were put up in our schools. But now thanks to political correctness there is no more Christmas trees or Christmas itself allowed to be celebrated in schools today. We are told that it was to offensive to other religions. WTF? Is this Canada or some other country that we are living in today? Hell knows these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted December 19, 2018 Report Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 hours ago, turningrite said: I attended a medical appointment earlier today and after so doing dropped into a large food court nearby for lunch. After my attendant, whom I require due to a serious mobility issue, brought my food tray to the table I asked if he noticed anything unusual.. He visually scanned the area and said the only thing he noticed was that we were among the few Caucasians in the room. I concurred, noting that the food court is astride a complex of provincial government offices thus rendering the demographic composition of the lunch crowd quite usual for that location based on my prior experience. But, I asked him, had he not noticed that there were absolutely no Christmas decorations in sight. "You're right," he responded with surprise, going on to wonder whether somebody had complained about them. After finishing lunch we went into a store adjacent to the food court and I asked the clerk why there weren't Christmas decorations in the vicinity and she said that she too was puzzled because this was the first time during her years working at that location that Christmas had gone unacknowledged. I'm not a particularly religious person and therefore not really offended by the absence of Christmas decor in such a location, but it made me wonder whether it's now the time to abolish all religious symbolism from the public sphere? If we can get by without Christmas, why do we bother allowing or acknowledging any other kind of religious tradition or symbolism? For the sake of diversity, maybe all religion needs to go. Hey, don't you know by now that it is considered that to be celebrating Christmas in public square Canada it is now considered to be offend Where or where has the good old Canada of past years gone? I say that we should be celebrating Christmas even more just to piss off those anti-Christmas and anti- Christian grinches out there. Bah humbug to them. Anyway, let me the first here to wish you and everyone else here a Merry Christmas. May it still be celebrated for decades to come. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) I should start by stating that I was borne and raised as a WASP, but haven't done the religion thing for half a century. Our children and grandchildren all also raised as Christians, but as kids are all scientists, hardly religious dogmatism in our family. My side has only been in Canada for maybe 150 years, but my wife's side goes to Selkirk settlers (her Father) and also back unknown thousands of years on this continent (Mother). Even though we are barely-to-not-at-all religious, we celebrate and appreciate Christmas as a very Canadian public holiday. It wraps up the year with a very commercial habit of gift giving - and since our job is to spoil children and grandchildren, we dig in and do our part. My two most memorable Christmas eves/days were one in the '80s when I was travelling into a war zone with my handler in a Muslim part of West Africa. We had spent the day with our in-country partners but were out in the Sahara on our own that night. We pulled into a roadside inn, checked into our rooms and received a knock on the door. In very broken English, we were invited down to their restaurant/"bar" (yes, there are places in Muslim countries where alcohol - mostly locally brewed beers - are served). They explained that since we were the only Christians anywhere within hundreds of klicks, they wanted to make us welcome and recognize OUR cultural/religious event. We spent a delightful evening been educated in Saharoui customs and lore. Though neither of us were actually Christian, we were touched by the sincerity of our hosts to respect what they assumed to be our belief. It was also the only Christmas I ever missed with my kids. The second was a visit with my business partner when we first opened up an office in Guangzhou in the early '90s. Even though China was barely out of its isolation (few citizens were allowed to travel and VERY few outside of the country) the newly built retail "malls" (very veritcal development) featured a lot of Western goods that few could yet afford, but most notable was the proliferation of Christmas decorations in a city with precious few Christians of any stripe. Christmas is more than just a Christian/pagan religious celebration (and even that part is the lesser of the whole). It is a globally recognized celebration of people's good wishes for their fellow man. That is, anywhere but in downtown Hogtown it seems where anything that promotes goodwill towards men is gauche. Edited December 20, 2018 by cannuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 It makes life richer when we recognize the celebrations and festivals of the people in our community, whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other faith. I know the Muslims in my community really appreciated when I wished them a joyful Eid after a long period of fasting. It's great to see the Menorahs out during Hanukah and the Christmas trees and mangers. These events are about family and bringing people together. It takes nothing away from me as a Christian to recognize important festivals in other people's lives. When I thought I was an atheist I felt the same way. It's great to show respect for events that are meaningful to people. It shows you care. It also creates a festive atmosphere having all of the lights and sounds around. Chinese New Year is another fun event. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Celebrating Christmas is part of Canada's tradition, and as such, is evil, racist and horrible. It must be eliminated lest it cause offense to newcomers of different religions. So say the progressives, who worship nothing but themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 42 minutes ago, Argus said: Celebrating Christmas is part of Canada's tradition, and as such, is evil, racist and horrible. It must be eliminated lest it cause offense to newcomers of different religions. So say the progressives, who worship nothing but themselves. I don't see that reflected in real world scenarios. The Religious elements of Christmas can be completely ignored and therefor enjoyed by all faiths and cultures. It's original purpose was to celebrate the days getting longer. That's something anyone can celebrate even though you don't believe in a Sun God. Western Culture still values Christmas, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Argus said: Celebrating Christmas is part of Canada's tradition, and as such, is evil, racist and horrible. It must be eliminated lest it cause offense to newcomers of different religions. So say the progressives, who worship nothing but themselves. Yah but eating ham I mean come on society has to draw a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Boges said: I don't see that reflected in real world scenarios. The Religious elements of Christmas can be completely ignored and therefor enjoyed by all faiths and cultures. It's original purpose was to celebrate the days getting longer. That's something anyone can celebrate even though you don't believe in a Sun God. Western Culture still values Christmas, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. It will when I am in charge. You will have to eat tofu at Christmas . However I will exile Trudeau to Baffin Island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 8 hours ago, cannuck said: I should start by stating that I was borne and raised as a WASP, but haven't done the religion thing for half a century. Our children and grandchildren all also raised as Christians, but as kids are all scientists, hardly religious dogmatism in our family. My side has only been in Canada for maybe 150 years, but my wife's side goes to Selkirk settlers (her Father) and also back unknown thousands of years on this continent (Mother). Even though we are barely-to-not-at-all religious, we celebrate and appreciate Christmas as a very Canadian public holiday. It wraps up the year with a very commercial habit of gift giving - and since our job is to spoil children and grandchildren, we dig in and do our part. My two most memorable Christmas eves/days were one in the '80s when I was travelling into a war zone with my handler in a Muslim part of West Africa. We had spent the day with our in-country partners but were out in the Sahara on our own that night. We pulled into a roadside inn, checked into our rooms and received a knock on the door. In very broken English, we were invited down to their restaurant/"bar" (yes, there are places in Muslim countries where alcohol - mostly locally brewed beers - are served). They explained that since we were the only Christians anywhere within hundreds of klicks, they wanted to make us welcome and recognize OUR cultural/religious event. We spent a delightful evening been educated in Saharoui customs and lore. Though neither of us were actually Christian, we were touched by the sincerity of our hosts to respect what they assumed to be our belief. It was also the only Christmas I ever missed with my kids. The second was a visit with my business partner when we first opened up an office in Guangzhou in the early '90s. Even though China was barely out of its isolation (few citizens were allowed to travel and VERY few outside of the country) the newly built retail "malls" (very veritcal development) featured a lot of Western goods that few could yet afford, but most notable was the proliferation of Christmas decorations in a city with precious few Christians of any stripe. Christmas is more than just a Christian/pagan religious celebration (and even that part is the lesser of the whole). It is a globally recognized celebration of people's good wishes for their fellow man. That is, anywhere but in downtown Hogtown it seems where anything that promotes goodwill towards men is gauche. I defer. Well written. Not that this surprises me. You got more class in a toe nail then I have. Smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 On 12/19/2018 at 3:38 PM, turningrite said: I attended a medical appointment earlier today and after so doing dropped into a large food court nearby for lunch. After my attendant, whom I require due to a serious mobility issue, brought my food tray to the table I asked if he noticed anything unusual.. He visually scanned the area and said the only thing he noticed was that we were among the few Caucasians in the room. I concurred, noting that the food court is astride a complex of provincial government offices thus rendering the demographic composition of the lunch crowd quite usual for that location based on my prior experience. But, I asked him, had he not noticed that there were absolutely no Christmas decorations in sight. "You're right," he responded with surprise, going on to wonder whether somebody had complained about them. After finishing lunch we went into a store adjacent to the food court and I asked the clerk why there weren't Christmas decorations in the vicinity and she said that she too was puzzled because this was the first time during her years working at that location that Christmas had gone unacknowledged. I'm not a particularly religious person and therefore not really offended by the absence of Christmas decor in such a location, but it made me wonder whether it's now the time to abolish all religious symbolism from the public sphere? If we can get by without Christmas, why do we bother allowing or acknowledging any other kind of religious tradition or symbolism? For the sake of diversity, maybe all religion needs to go. Firstly, we need to make a distinction between the official and unofficial spheres. Officially, Christmas is still a statutory holiday. Unofficially, it's up to each business and individual to decide for itself. In my opinion, that Christmas applies as a statutory holiday outside of government offices to public schools and businesses already crosses the boundary between the official and unofficial spheres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Machjo said: Firstly, we need to make a distinction between the official and unofficial spheres. Officially, Christmas is still a statutory holiday. Unofficially, it's up to each business and individual to decide for itself. In my opinion, that Christmas applies as a statutory holiday outside of government offices to public schools and businesses already crosses the boundary between the official and unofficial spheres. It's necessary for a society to have common cultural touchstones. And Christmas as celebrated in the private 'sphere' is already mostly a happy Christmas festival with little or no religious overtones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iznogoud Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 I celebrate Christmas as a festive event. I have absolutely no religious connections, but to me it is a fun time when friends and relatives get together. I always prepare the turkey - I've being doing that for almost fifty years while the wife contributes multiple side dishes and tons of tarts and cookies. So far as I can see the many cultural groups in Canada may not all celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas, but they seem to have no problem with the festive aspect of the occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 14 hours ago, Rue said: I defer. Well written. Not that this surprises me. You got more class in a toe nail then I have. Smile. You are being too hard on yourself. I am just a composite of all of the people in my life - and that includes many of the thoughtful and well informed posters on this site - such as you. Seasons Greetings to all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted December 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Machjo said: In my opinion, that Christmas applies as a statutory holiday outside of government offices to public schools and businesses already crosses the boundary between the official and unofficial spheres. So, you favor the complete secularization of society where religious symbolism and observance is removed from the public sphere? I lean more in that direction as each day passes. Edited December 21, 2018 by turningrite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, turningrite said: So, you favor the complete secularization of society where religious symbolism and observance is removed from the public sphere? I lean more in that direction as each day passes. Given how wide spread Christmas has become and how much money is spent by the public, would it still be considered a "religious" holiday? Perhaps renamed "Solstice Festival" would enable us to retain the consumerism and dispense with the religiosity. Think of the lack of Christmas Carols in the mall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, dialamah said: Given how wide spread Christmas has become and how much money is spent by the public, would it still be considered a "religious" holiday? Perhaps renamed "Solstice Festival" would enable us to retain the consumerism and dispense with the religiosity. Think of the lack of Christmas Carols in the mall! Commercial Christmas and religious Christmas are now two completely different things. I have utter disdain for the one and no feelings whatsoever for the other. A day off is a day off though. I'd take a day off for Charles Manson's birthday if they were offering it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, bcsapper said: Commercial Christmas and religious Christmas are now two completely different things. I have utter disdain for the one and no feelings whatsoever for the other. A day off is a day off though. I'd take a day off for Charles Manson's birthday if they were offering it. We get two days off, plus a day or two at Easter. Thank you Christianity. Perhaps we need a month of stats for Ramadan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 41 minutes ago, dialamah said: We get two days off, plus a day or two at Easter. Thank you Christianity. Perhaps we need a month of stats for Ramadan? I'd take that too. But I'm retiring soon, of course. Then I want you all back to work to pay for my pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 22 hours ago, Argus said: It's necessary for a society to have common cultural touchstones. And Christmas as celebrated in the private 'sphere' is already mostly a happy Christmas festival with little or no religious overtones. Is a common day off really the epitome of a common culture? How will we ever integrate shift workers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 6 hours ago, turningrite said: So, you favor the complete secularization of society where religious symbolism and observance is removed from the public sphere? I lean more in that direction as each day passes. Not entirely. Let's take the UK as an example. The official state religion (i.e. the established church) of the UK is the Anglican Faith, so it would make perfect sense for at least non-essential government workers to get the day off on Christian holidays. Even though Canada has no official religion, the Christian Faith comes closest to that with the Separate schol system, so it could make sense in Canada too. But it should not spill over into the private sector. That said, I suppose that the state could make a law recognizing the right of any person who works in a non-essential serive to have his religious holy days off. This would give Christians who work in non-essential services holiday priority on those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, dialamah said: Given how wide spread Christmas has become and how much money is spent by the public, would it still be considered a "religious" holiday? Perhaps renamed "Solstice Festival" would enable us to retain the consumerism and dispense with the religiosity. Think of the lack of Christmas Carols in the mall! People celebrate all kinds of non-statutory holidays, so what says that different people can't celebrate Christmas, Solstice Festival, and other holidays too. With different people celebrating different holidays, team work could ensure we cover them all. Let the Christians celebrate Christmas to cover that base, and the rest of us can cover the other bases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, dialamah said: We get two days off, plus a day or two at Easter. Thank you Christianity. Perhaps we need a month of stats for Ramadan? Why thank Christianity for the government telling you what day to take off? Why not just guarantee so many days off work every year and let the individual worker decide in consultation with his employer what day he wants off? Would that not be even better in a supposedly-free society? What business is it of the government what day I get off? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, dialamah said: We get two days off, plus a day or two at Easter. Thank you Christianity. Perhaps we need a month of stats for Ramadan? Muslims work on Ramadan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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