Sell the LCBO now.

[Montgomery Burns]

Didn't any of these 1,866 government slugs qualify to work in any of them?

Government slugs ??? Your description tells us something about you. You'd call them "slugs" just because they had a good job....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point, he should've called them leeches instead since they feed off their taxpaying hosts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. They're grossly overcompensated for what they do in the LBS. They threw 1954 people out of a job, less variety and selection in govt-run stores. Typical greedy socialists leeching off the hard-working public.

[err]

Didn't any of these 1,866 government slugs qualify to work in any of them?

Government slugs ??? Your description tells us something about you. You'd call them "slugs" just because they had a good job....

Good point, he should've called them leeches instead since they feed off their taxpaying hosts.

Exactly. They're grossly overcompensated for what they do in the LBS. They threw 1954 people out of a job, less variety and selection in govt-run stores. Typical greedy socialists leeching off the hard-working public.

You aught to go back and look up the terms you use before you use them... Because you make yourself look really ignorant when you use terms like "greedy socialists leeching off the hard-working public" and "left-wing facists"....

I don't believe that the LCBO requires any knowledge of political allegiance of their employees.... I would imagine they hire mostly capitalists, and probably very few socialists... So are the capitalists they hire any less leeches than the socialists ??? I'm having difficulty understanding your logic... Did you go to the LCBO before you wrote this post ???

[August1991]

Sell the LCBO? Why would anyone even ask the question....

I'm in Europe now and I just bought a bottle of wine in a (private) shop across the street after 11 pm. In Quebec, beer and wine are sold in grocery chains and in corner stores before 11 pm. In the US, alcoholic beverages are sold in private stores.

I understand that Alberta has privatized alcohol sales but the rest of English Canada has these strange rules for selling beer, wine and liquor. Why? I suspect that public sector unions probably play a role now. In Quebec, the SAQ is a powerful lobby.

Governments impose special taxes on gasoline but we don't buy gasoline from a single State agency whose employees are members of a single union. The idea is vaguely Soviet.

Sell the LCBO? I'd simply abolish it.

[punked]

Alberta priviatized its retail and wholesale beer and liquor. Best thing that ever happened. Unfortunately like other provinces the government still taxes the hell out of it.

They supply too all outlets though. So it isn't really private at all.

[Oleg Bach]

You can't sell something that is already privatized. WHAT you actually think that it's some sort of public concern? Brewers retail- is a monopoly so is the LCBO just because you attatch the word Ontario does not make it public - both of these monopolies are controled by private families. Why sell them to someone else ---you might just sell them back to who ever controls them anyway.

[Topaz]

Perhaps the government can take all $530,548,000,000 in tax revenue and distribute it amongst the 30,000,000 Canadians. We could all take home a $17,684.93 check every year.

We could only wish but here's the bad news...............http://www.debtclock.ca/

[capricorn]

The LCBO rakes it in.

The threat of a strike at the LCBO sent sales soaring on Tuesday across Ontario.

The LCBO says Tuesday was the largest single day of retail sales in the history of the LCBO, with one-day sales possibly reaching $60 million.

http://www.cfra.com/?cat=2&nid=66132

[joepublic]

How can you generate money from privatization?

In Ontario the strike is over and in Ontario the LCBO is a money maker that pays for much needed social programs

[DFCaper]

How can you generate money from privatization?

In Ontario the strike is over and in Ontario the LCBO is a money maker that pays for much needed social programs

The same way they rake it in now. Taxing the product, the employees and the profits of the stores. If the government was more efficient to society in retail, they should take over all Tim Hortons. In fact, why not make all businesses government???

I really don't understand why so many people think it is right for the government to over pay people with OUR tax dollars. (Despite what err thinks, taxpayers deserve a voice) LCBO profits are just added tax grabs. If I spend $20 at the LCBO, only a small portion goes to the producer, and the rest goes to the Government, one way or another. Tax is tax, no matter how you sell it.

The argument here that these minimum wage like jobs should be making $16-$25/hour had any merit, then why isn't min wage set at those levels?? What makes these workers so special?? Why should I pay taxes so that a very small percentage gets an unfair wage? Relative to others in similar position who are also paying the tax? I'd rather a general tax break for people who work at these unfortunate wage, public or private.

Is it because it would only benefit the consumer, small business, employment, etc......

Privatize now!

I don't get angry at paying taxes for services that it only makes sense for the government to provide, and to ensure a minmun standard of living for the unfortionate, but retail sales!?!?!?!?!

[eyeball]

How can you generate money from privatization?

In Ontario the strike is over and in Ontario the LCBO is a money maker that pays for much needed social programs

Like prisons for people with FASD. I suspect the social costs of alcohol might be dwarfing any benefit it might have. By rights, the LCBO should be treated no differently than the Hell's Angles.

OTOH the LCBO, also by rights, could be changed to the SCBO (substance control board) so its success and benefits could be extended on an even wider scale.

[August1991]

If the government was more efficient to society in retail, they should take over all Tim Hortons. In fact, why not make all businesses government???

I really don't understand why so many people think it is right for the government to over pay people with OUR tax dollars. (Despite what err thinks, taxpayers deserve a voice) LCBO profits are just added tax grabs. If I spend $20 at the LCBO, only a small portion goes to the producer, and the rest goes to the Government, one way or another. Tax is tax, no matter how you sell it.

The argument here that these minimum wage like jobs should be making $16-$25/hour had any merit, then why isn't min wage set at those levels?? What makes these workers so special??

Good arguments, well stated. I agree. Edited June 25, 2009 by August1991

[punked]

The argument here that these minimum wage like jobs should be making $16-$25/hour had any merit, then why isn't min wage set at those levels?? What makes these workers so special?? Why should I pay taxes so that a very small percentage gets an unfair wage? Relative to others in similar position who are also paying the tax? I'd rather a general tax break for people who work at these unfortunate wage, public or private.

You don't even know what this Union is asking for. They aren't asking for a pay increase they are asking be given real hours. They are often given 2 hour shifts. you try to live on that. Don't come on hear and bash a union unless you know what they are asking for. They are happy with their wage they want to be treated like worker who is trying to earn a living.

With profits of 1.3 billion last year I think it is the least this bisuness can do.

[DFCaper]

You don't even know what this Union is asking for. They aren't asking for a pay increase they are asking be given real hours. They are often given 2 hour shifts. you try to live on that. Don't come on hear and bash a union unless you know what they are asking for. They are happy with their wage they want to be treated like worker who is trying to earn a living.

With profits of 1.3 billion last year I think it is the least this bisuness can do.

More than bashing the union, I think the government job shouldn't be direct retail sales of a consumer product like this.

I am annoyed though by the fact that the government collected an extra 1.3 billion in hidden taxes... Since that's an idiot tax that I do pay...

[punked]

More than bashing the union, I think the government job shouldn't be direct retail sales of a consumer product like this.

I am annoyed though by the fact that the government collected an extra 1.3 billion in hidden taxes... Since that's an idiot tax that I do pay...

It is either government collects them or a private bisuness. Getting ride of the government in these things just moves a profitable industry out of government control and into someone else hands. This is what I don't get about conservatives and liberals, they want to sell government cooperations when they are doing good and making profits and buy up private bisuness like the GM when they are doing bad and bleeding money. You guys are thinking of it backwards. If the government has a bisuness that is making money good for them means that you get to pay less income tax to make for the on coming debts that happen.

[ironstone]

Actually, the people of Ontario get all the profits. Every dollar collected at the LCBO is one dollar less that the government has to collect off your paycheque.

So unless you own one of the companies that would obtain a portion of the LCBO that would be sold off.... you lose from the sale of the LCBO...

I would like to set the record straight.The government,and NOT the people of Ontario,get's all of the profits to squander as they see fit.

Privatization seems to have worked in Alberta from what I read,but the unions would never allow it in Ontario.What the LCBO employees do is not rocket science,but they are paid quite well and get great benefits that private sector employees have to foot the bill for.

[Smallc]

Again, Alberta isn't private, they simply have private point of sale.

[punked]

I would like to set the record straight.The government,and NOT the people of Ontario,get's all of the profits to squander as they see fit.

Privatization seems to have worked in Alberta from what I read,but the unions would never allow it in Ontario.What the LCBO employees do is not rocket science,but they are paid quite well and get great benefits that private sector employees have to foot the bill for.

The government still controls all Liquor sales in Alberta.

As for the union what are their great benefits do tell me? The Union bashing needs to stop seriously. People come in here screaming about union greed what is that they asking for already? One guy said that the "greedy" union wants more money that isn't true. Until you know some facts besides you hate unions you look ridiculous.

[CAMP]

The government still controls all Liquor sales in Alberta.

As for the union what are their great benefits do tell me? The Union bashing needs to stop seriously. People come in here screaming about union greed what is that they asking for already? One guy said that the "greedy" union wants more money that isn't true. Until you know some facts besides you hate unions you look ridiculous.

The government should never be in the business of retail anything. Especially something as addictive as alcohol. Privatize it just like Quebec. Government still gets tax proceeds and we the consumer get to buy it in many more places conveniently.

Edited July 1, 2009 by CAMP

[Renegade]

If the government has a bisuness that is making money good for them means that you get to pay less income tax to make for the on coming debts that happen.

You seem to miss something. The government is only in businesses where they are a monopoly. They make money because they can unilaterally charge whatever they want no matter how ineffiently it is run. You may save some money as a taxpayer if profits are recycled into the system but as a consumer you will undoubtly pay more.

Are we not better off overall if instead of over-charging consumers and then returning only part of that payment as services, we were never overcharged to begin with? With a government run monolopy, what incentive is there to reign in costs?

[ironstone]

The government still controls all Liquor sales in Alberta.

As for the union what are their great benefits do tell me? The Union bashing needs to stop seriously. People come in here screaming about union greed what is that they asking for already? One guy said that the "greedy" union wants more money that isn't true. Until you know some facts besides you hate unions you look ridiculous.

Please forgive me if I come across as anti-union.Perhaps I am still feeling the effects of having been a member of the Teamsters(Local 91) for 15 years and experiencing first hand how unions can mess things up royally.Government unions are all about greed and pushing their socialist agenda,nothing more,nothing less.

[Radsickle]

I don't understand why any honest tax-payer would want to privatize Ontario's jewel. The LCBO has the most selection for the cheapest price of ANY Liquor store/network in the world. Their buying power is huge. Alberta's `Private Point-of-Sale' corner stores might be open late and on statutory holidays, but their prices are inflated and their selection sucks.

No Thanks!

Conservative forces will try to demonize the LCBO union as `expensive, but, really, they just want to open their own corner liquor stores, and charge more.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Radsickle

[crazykai]

Selling the LCBO is a foolish move, both economically and socially.

Firstly, the LCBO has a nice place that generates huge revenues for the province and because it is the largest alcohol retailer in the world, it has the markets of scale to buy cheap and carry more brands they any other liquor retailer. I also find the customer service there amazing, the staff are extremely knowledgable, the stores are clean and nicely decorated and they have amazing selection. You can even go online and check inventory and call ahead to make sure they have what you want. I would never expect this from the private sector. If you were to asked me to list public institutions I have pride in, the LCBO would come second after medicare. Public transit in Ottawa would come last, by the way because they are the bain of my existence.

The problems I see with private liquor stores are what I see out west. In BC, the private liquor stores essentially don't compete during regular hours by having higher prices and only carry a few brands. The business picks up at 10pm, when you have people how are irresponsible coming in either because they forgot to buy booze earilier in the day or have already drank too much. That also comes to the other bigger problem. Alcohol is a huge social problem. I do drink but from my experience, I should have drank less in the past and less in the future and I am cutting back to only a few drinks spread out over the month. Prohibition failed miserably so liquor control was founded to control liquor in the sense, take it our of organized crime but not promote it and tax it just enough to avoid widespread black market and homemade liquor. In Alberta, there seems to be a liquor store on every corner and the population seem more drunken than elsewhere in Canada. With that, comes the fights, abuse, property damage, healthcare costs, lost property values, death but worst of all, the drugs. Every person I know from Alberta or has worked there says substaince abuse (drugs and alcohol) and the crime that goes with it is the biggest problem in Alberta. Why am I not surprised "tough-on-crime" politicans are pushing a policy that will likely significantly increase crime?

The LCBO might be nice, but it is pushing higher end products rather than volume. They also adveritise social responsiblity and I have seen them take people out of the store that shouldn't be buying liquor. I don't see the private sector doing that.

[Topaz]

One big problem for tax payers, if both the provincical and federal government start to sell off all the property own by them, were will the money come from after everything is sold? The taxpayer!!!! It a stupid move.

[fellowtraveller]

Look at Alberta and the success that came with privitizing the ALCB. There are more stores available to the public, they are open longer hours, and there are selection of wine and spirits available to the public than when the ALCB was ever public.

Those were all benefits to the public, but none of them are really why the govt divested itself of the retail sales operations.

The ALCB still controls all wholesale operations, and all those private stores still buy mainly from them.

That means the public purse still gains huge profits, and with it comes the real reason that it was privatized: greatly reduced risk and liability for the govt and taxpayers.

Hundreds of govt stores sold means way less capital cost and exposure. Thousands of employees dropped means way less in pensions and other liabilities. It also introduced some sanity into a retail operation, no more paying cashiers $22/hour plus full benefits.

It was and is the correct business decsion.

Edited August 23, 2009 by fellowtraveller

[Oleg Bach]

Who do we sell the LCBO too? Who do we sell Brewers Retail too? To some private company? THEY ARE PRIVATE COMPANIES...anyone heard of the term monopoloy? The producers of the product are the owners of the enterprise. May as well leave it alone - a force governmental selling will only amount to a hostile merger or take over by some other private people - may as well call it what it is if these concerns are sold - a coup!