AsksWhy Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 Should our gov't be able to pass back-to-work legislation? The whole idea behind union / company agreements is one that allows either party to take a stand when being treated unfairly - primarily in terms of safety, compensation, or job security. In either case - by strike or by lockout - work stoppages are a true indicator that something is wrong with the status quo and should be allowed to play out in natural order. An intervention that expedites this process does nothing of value for either party, likely only conveniences a third party, and is prone to create a larger divide moving forward. Not to mention that a government that "tells" people what to do versus a government that "is told" what to do by its people turns a democracy into an oligarchy. - Is that the type of government we want in Canada? - I think not! What does everybody else think? 1 Quote
ReeferMadness Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 Nobody wins a strike. There must be better ways to resolve this. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
AsksWhy Posted November 25, 2018 Author Report Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, ReeferMadness said: Nobody wins a strike. There must be better ways to resolve this. Strikes are not about winning or losing... they're about compromise. It's a game of give-and-take and our government needs to let that process play out. Quote
cannuck Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 Until there is right to work legislation coast to coast, the whole labour mess is far too lopsided towards the damned unions for anything to work out well. Government NEEDS the ability to legislate end of strikes until there is some kind of actual freedom in this country. Quote
turningrite Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 1 hour ago, cannuck said: Until there is right to work legislation coast to coast, the whole labour mess is far too lopsided towards the damned unions for anything to work out well. Government NEEDS the ability to legislate end of strikes until there is some kind of actual freedom in this country. It's not as lopsided as it used to be. There is competition in the industry at this point, at least for package delivery, which means the postal workers have far less bargaining power than was previously the case. That's likely why we haven't seen a full-blown strike, as it would backfire. The public would demand that letter delivery be opened to general competition as well. Monopolies are inherently bad for consumers but very good for managers and workers protected by them. Were the postal workers' union to take a hard line, it would likely hasten the end of any advantage its members continue to hold. Quote
eyeball Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 14 hours ago, AsksWhy said: Should our gov't be able to pass back-to-work legislation? No, our government should be an aspect of One Big Union that looks out for all workers. Instead it's all to often an aspect of a corporatocracy that's out to screw workers. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
capricorn Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) In the case of Canada Post, privatize it and be done with it. Its most profitable operation, letter processing, has been in steady decline and will eventually disappear. My guess is Unifor is taking this strike action to make themselves look relevant to the public and their membership. Typically, unions work for their own survival and growth. Unifor CUPW is no different. Edited November 25, 2018 by capricorn Wrong union Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
ReeferMadness Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 14 hours ago, AsksWhy said: Strikes are not about winning or losing... they're about compromise. It's a game of give-and-take and our government needs to let that process play out. Strikes are not about compromise. Bargaining is about compromise. Strikes are like wars. Everyone loses except for parties not directly involved (ie the competition). There is a huge problem in the world of a widening financial gap between the richest and the poorest but there have got to be better ways of resolving these issues than striking. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Shady Posted November 25, 2018 Report Posted November 25, 2018 It’s time to abolish Canada Post and contract those services out to private companies like UPS etc. 2 Quote
eyeball Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 2 hours ago, ReeferMadness said: There is a huge problem in the world of a widening financial gap between the richest and the poorest but there have got to be better ways of resolving these issues than striking. You're suggesting posties are on the rich side of this widening gap? We must be talking about a different wealth/income gap than the more conventional one unions usually exist in opposition to. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
AsksWhy Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Posted November 26, 2018 10 hours ago, cannuck said: Until there is right to work legislation coast to coast, the whole labour mess is far too lopsided towards the damned unions for anything to work out well. Government NEEDS the ability to legislate end of strikes until there is some kind of actual freedom in this country. Lopsided towards Unions how? Government needs ability to side-step a party's biggest bargaining chip (work stoppage) why? Quote
AsksWhy Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Posted November 26, 2018 5 hours ago, capricorn said: In the case of Canada Post, privatize it and be done with it. Its most profitable operation, letter processing, has been in steady decline and will eventually disappear. My guess is Unifor is taking this strike action to make themselves look relevant to the public and their membership. Typically, unions work for their own survival and growth. Unifor CUPW is no different. Every entity "works for its own survival and growth" - that is the system we have created, but government wants to legally strip Union's of this. Why would Canadians ever want to allow this to happen? Quote
AsksWhy Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Posted November 26, 2018 5 hours ago, ReeferMadness said: Strikes are not about compromise. Bargaining is about compromise. By your definition "bargaining" and "strike" are one and the same, because work stoppages (strikes or lock outs) are the largest bargaining chip each side has. Quote
AsksWhy Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Posted November 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Truth Detector said: It’s time to abolish Canada Post and contract those services out to private companies like UPS etc. Yes, terminate thousands of jobs and then contract them out at a lower rate. Great solution! Not! Quote
taxme Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 3 hours ago, AsksWhy said: Yes, terminate thousands of jobs and then contract them out at a lower rate. Great solution! Not! Government employees should not be allowed to strike. If they do not want to work for me the taxpayer then quit. Canada Post has a monopoly on mail and that should not be allowed. Why the hell is the government in the mail business anyway? They have to be losing millions of tax dollars every year with email around these days? Privatize the post office and privatize the CBC also. The government does not need to be in the media business. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 7 hours ago, eyeball said: You're suggesting posties are on the rich side of this widening gap? We must be talking about a different wealth/income gap than the more conventional one unions usually exist in opposition to. No, I'm suggesting that posties sitting around, not delivering mail and not getting paid, isn't helping anyone. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
cannuck Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 9 hours ago, AsksWhy said: Lopsided towards Unions how? Government needs ability to side-step a party's biggest bargaining chip (work stoppage) why? THAT was a rhetorical question, but I will explain anyway. 1. The concept of "freedom" is totally lost within the religious dogma of socialism. If you are able to force me to join a union, I am not free in any way. If you are able to force me as an employer to HAVE a union, I am not in any way free. EVERYONE should enjoy the right to work, not just those who choose to join a union or those unfortunate enough NOT to choose but be forced to join or accommodate. 2. Because as it stands, Canada Post has a monopoly on the service of delivering mail. The alternatives do NOT have access to the volume of letters to have sufficient sorting capacity to do so cost effectively. Allowing ANYONE with a monopoly to hold a gun to the public's head is simply not right. Quote
capricorn Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 10 hours ago, AsksWhy said: Every entity "works for its own survival and growth" - that is the system we have created, but government wants to legally strip Union's of this. Too bad General Motors in Oshawa couldn't work for its survival. Trudeau's economic policies made sure of that. Carbon tax anyone? 2,500 jobs lost as well as thousands of spinoff jobs. Which "entity" will flea Canada next? Hey, maybe the unemployed GM workers can form a media outlet and get a subsidy from the Liberals. 1 Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
DogOnPorch Posted November 26, 2018 Report Posted November 26, 2018 2 hours ago, capricorn said: Too bad General Motors in Oshawa couldn't work for its survival. Trudeau's economic policies made sure of that. Carbon tax anyone? 2,500 jobs lost as well as thousands of spinoff jobs. Which "entity" will flea Canada next? Hey, maybe the unemployed GM workers can form a media outlet and get a subsidy from the Liberals. Only if they're trusted and have proof of voting National Socialist...I mean Liberal. 1 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted November 27, 2018 Report Posted November 27, 2018 On 11/25/2018 at 6:46 PM, AsksWhy said: Every entity "works for its own survival and growth" - that is the system we have created, but government wants to legally strip Union's of this. Why would Canadians ever want to allow this to happen? It's only corporate butt-sniffs and other assorted right-wing lickspittles that want this. Like JT for example. I'd round them up and put 'em all in labour camps if I had anything to say about it...somewhere with lots of black-flies and mosquitoes. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Shady Posted November 28, 2018 Report Posted November 28, 2018 On 11/25/2018 at 9:56 PM, AsksWhy said: Yes, terminate thousands of jobs and then contract them out at a lower rate. Great solution! Not! Canada post doesn't generate the income to support the salary and benefits they enjoy. Taxpayers make up the shortfalls. 1 Quote
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