Belinda DEFECTS!?!?!

[Black Dog]

Now you're thinkin Black Dog. I knew you'd come around sooner or later. 

Newf, I think you might be right about the perception thing. We'll have to see how it plays out in the next couple days. Perhaps people will see her as an opportunist, though I have little faith in both the media and Canadians.

Of course she's opportunistic. In business terms, she saw the CPC's stock was bound to take a dip, so she shifter her holdings to a blue chip stock. It's the free market in action!

[takeanumber]

Perhaps it would serve you well to quit with the generalizations and blanket statements.

Nah.

QUOTE

Methinks it may be time to start flying the Stars and Stripes in my yard in Calgary.

If you don't want people to critique your patriatism, perhaps you shouldn't make statements like that. Just saying, I won't attack your patriatism, but many can and probably will futhur down this thread.

[I miss Reagan]

Perhaps it would serve you well to quit with the generalizations and blanket statements.

Nah.

Of course not. Hypocrite.

Of course she's opportunistic. In business terms, she saw the CPC's stock was bound to take a dip, so she shifter her holdings to a blue chip stock. It's the free market in action!

Ya but I would go further and say she was made an offer by the Libs she couldn't refuse. A sweet cabinet position. But I think she see's herself as a leader, as PM. The "natural governing party", in her mind, is her ticket to the top. Although, I don't think she has a chance in hell.

[Newfie Canadian]

Perhaps people will see her as an opportunist, though I have little faith in both the media and Canadians.

All politicians are opportunistic.

Opportunism is a vehicle for better perception, for sure.

Harper pounced on revelations from Gomery in an opportunistic way to try to bring down the Liberals.

PM PM will be the opportunist by using the Stronach defection to his advantage in the perception department.

Layton used the opportunity of the budget vote to get what he wanted from Martin.

Duceppe used the CPC to try to bring down the Liberals because they are riding high in Quebec.

[Melanie_]

All politicians are oppotunistic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget Kilgour, who is using his status as a free independent vote to push for help for Darfur. Opportunistic, perhaps, but here I believe the ends justify the means.

[I miss Reagan]

Don't forget Kilgour, who is using his status as a free independent vote to push for help for Darfur.

I would say there's a big difference between a guy who uses leverage for the benefit of humanity and a selfish brat who wants to be boss. At least we all seem to be agreed about her motivation. I'm not sure anyone would be stupid enough to believe her especially after she's just voted 3 times to bring down the Liberals. I feel bad for all those people who supported her in her leadership bid and those conservatives in her riding. They must feel pretty betrayed. I'm reminded of the movie Geronimo where the captain says of the betrayal of the Apache "what doth it profit a man to gain the world, if he loses his own soul".

[August1991]

I've seen references in French to Stronach's relationship with Mackay. (One news report described him as her conjoint.) I saw it suggested that her action is the result of a lover's spat.

How well known is their relationship? Has Mackay said anything yet?

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I also laughed when I read that PM PM is going to ask her to implement the conclusions of the Gomery Inquiry.

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The problems in Canada and in the federal Liberal Party defy quick fixes. There is no deus ex machina (and certainly not Belinda crossing the floor) that will magically appear and make everything right.

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John Crosbie, Rene Levesque, Jack Horner all crossed the floor. The lesson? Horner crossed for personal power and went nowhere. Trudeau supported the NDP and then ran as a Liberal. Duplessis left the Conservative Party to found the Union Nationale. Lucien Bouchard also left the Conservatives. Mercier left the Liberals to found the Parti National. Other examples?

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Stronach clearly wants the limo and the minister's suite (no money can buy that kind of treatment). As Harper rightly said I suspect, she wants to make PM and she finally figured that she'd never make Tory leader.

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No doubt about it though. This will hurt the Conservatives in Ontario.

[takeanumber]

QUOTE

QUOTE

Perhaps it would serve you well to quit with the generalizations and blanket statements.

Nah.

Of course not. Hypocrite.

Name calling again?

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No doubt about it though. This will hurt the Conservatives in Ontario.

Agreed.

[Bakunin]

I've seen references in French to Stronach's relationship with Mackay. (One news report described him as her conjoint.) I saw it suggested that her action is the result of a lover's spat.

I saw it too, anyone can confirm that there is or were a relationship between those 2?

[donvonbra]

But this has to the most poetic of justice. The so-cons in the CPC have been calling her a Liberal for over a year now. And now she is -- but the cost is that the Cons are not going to overthrow the governmemt.

Don't ya got to love it.

don

[Newfie Canadian]

I have heard they were a couple.

I can't remember if it was Duffy (CTVNews) or Newman (CBCNewsworld) that I heard it from.

From CBC.ca

Harper said Stronach's fellow MPs "are feeling quite devastated, quite betrayed by this" – especially Peter MacKay, who has been romantically involved with Stronach for about six months.

[ScottBrison]

This looks to be pretty devastating to the CPC.

I did think that Belinda.ca would be a moderating influence in the party, and also someone who was critical in the CPC's efforts to reach former PC voters.  Losing her probably deals a serious blow. This makes me less likely to support the CPC. I'm going to have to do a lot of reflection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

kimmy,

I think what you should do is take a look at all the issues that mean something to you, figure out where you stand, find the party that most closely represents that and fight for them with all you've got. That's what I did. Sure I get involved in the partisan games, I find a lot of it fun, but I'm not just a Liberal because I like the color red, or I don't like the Conservatives, etc. I'm a Liberal because they're the party that is closest to what I believe in. Some of the things they do, some of the positions they take I disagree with, but that's where you get involved, join your local riding association and try to change it from the inside. And if you fail, at least you know you tried.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

-Murray

[August1991]

Harper said he'd met twice with Stronach since then and she gave no indication she was planning such a dramatic move.

He says now that he told his wife a few days ago he suspected Stronach's thwarted leadership ambitions ''would mean trouble.''

He didn't learn just how much until an hour before the Martin-Stronach news conference.

And he learned it not from Stronach but from her distraught erstwhile boyfriend, Conservative deputy leader Peter MacKay.

''It has hurt him terribly badly,'' Harper told a news conference.

MacKay wasn't talking, but insiders say he must have been kept in the dark until the end.

CP Report

What was that Mulroney line? "Ya dance with the girl wot brung ya."

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Another loser in this is Jack Layton. Many people who had thought of deserting the Liberals and possibly going for the NDP will now return to the Liberal fold.

[Guest eureka]

But then, Kimmy, the Liberal spinmeisters don't understand the Quebec Sovereignists' I do! I stick with my prediction of a few weeks ago that the Liberals will pick up in Quebec.

[August1991]

Stronach would not discuss MacKay in detail, saying their relationship is a personal matter.

"I have a great deal of respect for Peter MacKay . . . and the contribution he's made to the growth of the Conservative party."

One of the few people not talking about the humiliating state of affairs was MacKay himself. He was holed up in his Centre Block office watching developments unfold on CBC Newsworld. His aides tried to shoo away reporters waiting at his office doorstep. A terse "no comment" was all spokesman Michael Bailey would offer as a reaction to Stronach's departure.

Get the gossip here

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But then, Kimmy, the Liberal spinmeisters don't understand the Quebec Sovereignists' I do! I stick with my prediction of a few weeks ago that the Liberals will pick up in Quebec.

English Canada does not understand this at all. I laughed when I read that Belinda gave as a reason for crossing the floor that she didn't want to work with the separatists. Clueless.

[Newfie Canadian]

I stick with my prediction of a few weeks ago that the Liberals will pick up in Quebec.

I like your optimism eureka.

Another loser in this is Jack Layton. Many people who had thought of deserting the Liberals and possibly going for the NDP will now return to the Liberal fold.

That's an interesting point you make August.

I'm not sure how many that would be though. I would have thought that most would have jumped to the CPC, just to give them a bigger chance at forming government, despite the obvious philosophical diferences.

Even during the polls, the NDP didn't rise that much, if I recall correctly.

But you're right. Anyone who may have thought of leaving the Liberals now, no matter where they may have been heading, are probably rethinking the idea.

[August1991]

Did anyone else hear the expression on the CBC news describing Mackay as "a sick oyster at low tide"? Do people really say that? (Well put and graphic.)

[takeanumber]

I've been really dismayed by an Alberta Conservative MLA calling her a whore. (Source: CFCN). (www.cfcn.ca)

It's no wonder why so many women don't feel comfy with the Conservatives.

They just don't get it.

[seabee]

It seems that there is a switch in the Liberal Party's approach; Mrs Stronach's stated reason for crossing (ou pour crosser) the floor was to save "national" unity, thus making the Bloc Québécois, and by extentsion Québec, the new target. If there are to be elections soon, one can expect the Martin clan to blame the sponsorship scandals on Québécois, Martin himself to remind that he is a Franco-Ontarian, not a Québécker, and put the Reform a.k.a. Alliance a.k.a. conservatives as anti-Québec for its stands on Irak, Bush, same-sex marriage, pot, religious convictions, etc.

On the other hand, the Bloc will probably insist on Mrs Stronach's inability to speak French, interpret her "national" unity stance as anti-Québec.

Who said politics is boring?

[Argus]

Stronach has always been my favourite Conservative, along with Brison.  And now that they've both defected, you know, I have fewer problems voting Liberal now.

Both are known more for being pretty faces than any real accomplishment. Brison was a political whore for defecting when he did, his excuses at the time sounded forced. He wanted power, and I sense the same from Stronach. She was always daddy's girl, and her CEO job was entirely due to that. We saw during the leadership contest that she was completely lost about even basic issues, absolutely unable to take on the press, could not describe or defend her beliefs against hostile questions, and simply was not ready.

And anyone who thinks this is sour grapes because she's defected should check what I've said about her in the past. She has a pretty face and a nice voice, and I have long said she could be a star simply because the electorate are as shallow as the poster above. But she wasn't ready to be leader of the CPC and had no experience in politics. She will have to be hand-held through anything she does at HRDC. The idea of her as the grand inquisitor cleaning up corruption is simply ludicrous. She has no experience whatever in even overseeing such a job.

There have been a lot of stories over the last few weeks of the Liberals trying to buy off tories. It seems they found one willing to sell herself. As with Brison, her excuses seem weak and unfocused (much like her performance in the Tory leadership conventioin). She left her high profile job to become party leader. Obviously she thinks herself above being a mere MP, and wants the big office with the lackeys again. Now she'll get them. She'll be able to feel like a big shot again and order people around.

Sad. I had some hopes for her, if she got some experience. But she's just another whore.

[Argus]

It is, as I've said before all about perception, and it's not looking good for the CPC. Here you have a young, intelligent, successful woman who jumped the CPC ship,

It is indeed about apperances. I would not call Belinda Stronach particularly intelligent or succesful - unless you measure success by how wealthy a family you get yourself born to.

which arguably was on it's way to forming the next government, for the Liberal ship, which is arguably headed for the Laurentian Trench.

Perhaps an indication she really isn 't very bright? Or that she couldn't stand to be in the same room as her erstwhile lover any more, or wanted to punish him?

And now PM PM, with smile from ear to ear, looks like a leader with whom Stronach, a young, intelligent, successful woman, can be comfortable with.Perception, perception, perception.

Indeed. It is perception that she is intelligent or succesful, perception not so far born out by fact.

What she is is good looking. That's basically it, so far.

[Argus]

I'm a Liberal because they're the party that is closest to what I believe in.

Uhhhh, what exactly do the Liberals believe in except power at any cost?

[August1991]

The Parliamentary web site has already posted Belinda's crossing the floor. The site also provides a list of federal rats (and a few double rats) all the way back to that scoundrel, Joseph Howe, in 1869.

A rogue's gallery for the historically inclined. (Note the term "physically crossed". (eg. James Richardson) I gather that means the MP stood up and walked across the green carpet. Imagine Belinda had done that!)

Until the 1930s, to change parties (or enter the cabinet), an MP had to resign and then run in a by-election.

As to Belinda, I think she would have done her case more good if she had said she would sit st first as an independant while supporting the government.

[Littlefinger]

I find it amusing that so many conservatives are accusing Stronach of abandoning her principles for pure ambition. Joining a party that may yet fall in two days is not the best way to realize one's ambition. The Liberals may very well lose the next election. Stronach knows all this and chose to leave the Conservatives anyway.

It actually takes a principled stand for her to say that she cannot continue to support the path of the Conservatives and that she is sticking to her principles, even if the result is that she is a minister for only two days.

[cybercoma]

I wonder how much in taxpayer's money she stands to make from this transition...

I mean, to align yourself with a party wrapped up in a criminal matter such as this...you certainly implicate yourself as a supporter of such activities.