Endgame

[eyeball]

In 1970 KGB officer Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov defected to Canada and outlined a a long term KGB strategy and process of subversion of American perceptions that now appears to be drawing to a victorious close.

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“What it (ideological subversion)  basically means is: to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.” 

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/34-years-ago-a-kgb-defector-described-america-today

What really stood out to me in the interview with Bezmenov is when he says the only way to reverse the process of ideological subversion is if another generation of people with a clearer patriotic common sense of what social justice is arises and mentions Jane Fonda - he then goes on to explain that Marxist Lenninist teachings do not tolerate such people and they would be treated as dissidents, marked for extermination and squashed like cockroaches.   The disdain for social justice is nearly universal now and probably the best indicator that the endgame is underway.

What is it about social justice that pisses so many people off?  I think its because it stands in the way of the state of oligarchy both systems appear to be inexorably homing in on.  I doubt the oligarchs care about ideology other than to subvert it in whatever manner keeps keep them on top.  The real mystery is why so many people love their oligarchs and I think that has something to do with living in a behavioural sink.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

 The real mystery is why so many people love their oligarchs and I think that has something to do with living in a behavioural sink.

 

No, it's not much of a mystery at all...at least in the United States.

Going back to FDR's "New Deal" and forward as the social welfare state was developed, people on the dole ("pogey" in Canada) were held in very low regard, below even criminals who made their living selling moonshine, shoplifting, petty theft....anything but "welfare".

It's not so much that oligarchs are worshiped...it is more that anyone who wants to be a "commie" is a threat to the meritocracy where there will be winners and losers...and that's OK.

SJWs would be hated in nature too, because they would try to stop the lions and tigers from "bullying" other animals.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No, it's not much of a mystery at all...at least in the United States.

Going back to FDR's "New Deal" and forward as the social welfare state was developed, people on the dole ("pogey" in Canada) were held in very low regard, below even criminals who made there living selling moonshine, shoplifting, petty theft....anything but "welfare".

Oligarchs too big to fail certainly get lots of high regard and welfare when they behave like criminals. 
 

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It's not so much that oligarchs are worshiped...it is more that anyone who wants to be a "commie" is a threat to the meritocracy where there will be winners and losers...and that's OK.  

 

Even above the threat posed to a democracy by an oligarch?  BTW where do your founders mention meritocracy specifically?

 

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SJWs would be hated in nature too, because they would try to stop the lions and tigers from "bullying" other animals.

 

Nature is the SJW. I suggest you try reading Aldo Leopold's Land Ethic. 

[bush_cheney2004]

42 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Oligarchs too big to fail certainly get lots of high regard and welfare when they behave like criminals. 

Even above the threat posed to a democracy by an oligarch?  BTW where do your founders mention meritocracy specifically?

 

Yes, even above any such "threat".    The founders believed in slavery too.   

 

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Nature is the SJW. I suggest you try reading Aldo Leopold's Land Ethic. 

 

Another manifesto will not change human nature.     Teddy Roosevelt was way ahead of Aldo.

Sorry, but America is more complicated than your view from Canada.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Sorry, but America is more complicated than your view from Canada.

I figured it might be worse than it appeared...no need to apologize.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I figured it might be worse than it appeared...no need to apologize.

 

Agreed.....being American means never having to apologize for being American.   

But I hear that Canada loves to do that....different strokes for different folks.

[paxamericana]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

What is it about social justice that pisses so many people off?  I think its because it stands in the way of the state of oligarchy both systems appear to be inexorably homing in on.  I doubt the oligarchs care about ideology other than to subvert it in whatever manner keeps keep them on top. 

Actually this is a lie stoked on by the globalist elites. Trump is anti-globalist and so they would portrayed him as anti social justice when in fact he's the most successful social justice warrior since abe lincoln. Serious, he's done more good for the minority and working class american than any president. Poverty doesn't discriminate, don't buy into identity politics the globalist are telling you. Also Trump while being a one per-center himself actually are working against them. See, by limiting immigration and forcing them to hire more american workers and raising their salaries he's cutting into their profit margins. You will actually see a more equitable income distribution through job and wage growth when you force the globalist to hire american and not export jobs overseas or use immigrants. 

Enough of social justice for ya?

[Zeitgeist]

On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 3:02 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, it's not much of a mystery at all...at least in the United States.

Going back to FDR's "New Deal" and forward as the social welfare state was developed, people on the dole ("pogey" in Canada) were held in very low regard, below even criminals who made their living selling moonshine, shoplifting, petty theft....anything but "welfare".

It's not so much that oligarchs are worshiped...it is more that anyone who wants to be a "commie" is a threat to the meritocracy where there will be winners and losers...and that's OK.

SJWs would be hated in nature too, because they would try to stop the lions and tigers from "bullying" other animals.

 

Social justice, charity, and philanthropy are the best aspects of humanity and speak to strength of character.  The most admirable people of the world are givers.

[Bonam]

Social justice is the worst ideology to emerge in human civilization since Nazism and Communism. Treating people based on group identity rather than as individuals leads to the greatest injustices, and yet that is precisely what the ideology of social justice is all about. Social justice is literally the opposite of actual justice. 

As for the OP's topic of Russian information/psychological/societal warfare... yes, it's seemingly been pretty effective. But really it's been social media that has allowed it to be effective. More and more people have a poorer and poorer grasp of reality. Personally, I'm at the point where I just assume any and all information I might casually hear or see is complete bullshit. Only on topics of particular interest to me will I bother putting in the time and effort to sift out what reality is from among all the noise.

The thing is, even if this disreality campaign is aimed at the US, it hurts other nations just as much, because ideas flow very quickly around the world and people everywhere have the same reduced sense of reality, not just in America. Dictatorships and semi-dictatorships may not care much about whether their people can tell what is real from what is not as long as their people remain obedient, but long term economic prosperity requires a rational and informed population. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Bonam said:

1. Social justice is the worst ideology to emerge in human civilization since Nazism and Communism.

2. Treating people based on group identity rather than as individuals leads to the greatest injustices, and yet that is precisely what the ideology of social justice is all about. Social justice is literally the opposite of actual justice. 

3. Only on topics of particular interest to me will I bother putting in the time and effort to sift out what reality is from among all the noise.

 

1.  Because Naziism and Communism gave us 20M-40M deaths and social justice gave us wedding cakes with two grooms on them !

2. Social justice didn't invent that.  It's a pretty old practice.  Social justice is a response to that practice.  If you can stop people from grouping people in certain ways and mistreating them, the need for social justice goes away.  How much do we hear about the need for protection of Irish Canadians ?

3. Good for you.  Recognize your inherent biases and you will do well in your quest to discover objective truth.

[bush_cheney2004]

"Social justice" also gave us more than 1,000,000,000 worldwide abortions since 1980...no birthday cakes for them.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

"Social justice" also gave us more than 1,000,000,000 worldwide abortions since 1980...no birthday cakes for them.

Imagine how bad Climate Change would be now if they hadn't!

Of course, one of them might have fixed it.

[Guest]

On 7/19/2018 at 11:40 AM, eyeball said:

What is it about social justice that pisses so many people off?  I think its because it stands in the way of the state of oligarchy both systems appear to be inexorably homing in on.  I doubt the oligarchs care about ideology other than to subvert it in whatever manner keeps keep them on top.  The real mystery is why so many people love their oligarchs and I think that has something to do with living in a behavioural sink.

 

Not being an Oligarch I think it's because those who would be SJWs spend an inordinate amount of time telling everyone who will listen that everyone is equal and stereotyping is wrong and prejudice is wrong and one must look beyond colour and race and religion and gender and sexual orientation and then they slyly turn around and say "except"...

Based, I think, on how they are feeling at the moment.  It's very odd.

 

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I think it's because those who would be SJWs spend an inordinate amount of time telling everyone who will listen that everyone is equal....

 

 

So in the case of equality and oligarchs, do people who are opposed to social justice honestly believe oligarchs got wealthy due to equal opportunity?

Just how stupid does someone have to be to imagine that?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

So in the case of equality and oligarchs, do people who are opposed to social justice honestly believe oligarchs got wealthy due to equal opportunity?

Just how stupid does someone have to be to imagine that?

Pretty stupid I imagine...

[Zeitgeist]

11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

"Social justice" also gave us more than 1,000,000,000 worldwide abortions since 1980...no birthday cakes for them.

Last I checked the Catholic Church supports social justice and opposes abortion.  Whether or not you think the right to have an abortion is a matter of social justice depends on your stance on abortion.  For me social justice is basically about helping lift the vulnerable out of poverty, disease, and oppression.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Last I checked the Catholic Church supports social justice and opposes abortion.  Whether or not you think the right to have an abortion is a matter of social justice depends on your stance on abortion.  For me social justice is basically about helping lift the vulnerable out of poverty, disease, and oppression.

Forcing someone to have a child when they don't want to sounds like oppression to me...

[bush_cheney2004]

24 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Last I checked the Catholic Church supports social justice and opposes abortion. 

 

Last I checked, the Catholic Church was still fighting off thousands of sexual assault cases and many members were still getting abortions.

 

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Whether or not you think the right to have an abortion is a matter of social justice depends on your stance on abortion.  For me social justice is basically about helping lift the vulnerable out of poverty, disease, and oppression.

 

For me, aborting more than 1,000,000,000 unborn children for social justice is ironic.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Last I checked, the Catholic Church was still fighting off thousands of sexual assault cases and many members were still getting abortions.

 

 

For me, aborting more than 1,000,000,000 unborn children for social justice is ironic.

I think anyone who tries to turn abortion into a social justice issue is missing the point of true social justice.  Social justice should not be a moral slap in the face for a sizeable portion of the population.  On the other hand, imprisoning people who have abortions is also a problem.  The highest courts have made the decisions in western countries on abortion.  Whether you think it’s okay, it’s a legally protected right, at least by legal precedent. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think anyone who tries to turn abortion into a social justice issue is missing the point of true social justice.  Social justice should not be a moral slap in the face for a sizeable portion of the population.  On the other hand, imprisoning people who have abortions is also a problem.  The highest courts have made the decisions in western countries on abortion.  Whether you think it’s okay, it’s a legally protected right, at least by legal precedent. 

 

That's fine, but don't pretend it does not come with associated costs.   SJW's protect abortion rights as a subset of sexual and economic equality rights (for women).  The hard core SJW's would abort the unborn regardless of circumstances just to assert their "right" to do so.

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's fine, but don't pretend it does not come with associated costs.   SJW's protect abortion rights as a subset of sexual and economic equality rights (for women).  The hard core SJW's would abort the unborn regardless of circumstances just to assert their "right" to do so.

Well I know social justice activists who work in the other direction, but I’d argue that effective social justice fights first and foremost for the most obvious basic rights.  We can’t have much political influence over matters of law/public policy such as abortion if people don’t have their basic needs of food, shelter, clothing and health in good order.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well I know social justice activists who work in the other direction, but I’d argue that effective social justice fights first and foremost for the most obvious basic rights.  We can’t have much political influence over matters of law/public policy such as abortion if people don’t have their basic needs of food, shelter, clothing and health in good order.  

 

Nothing unique about them compared to any other special interest group....SJWs can take a number and get in line just like everyone else.

They can have all the abortions they want, but they can't force somebody else to perform them.

[Bonam]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Because Naziism and Communism gave us 20M-40M deaths and social justice gave us wedding cakes with two grooms on them !

It's early days yet for social justice ideology, unfortunately.

Many deaths have already come as an indirect result, as for example Western nations refuse to recognize that certain individuals in wartorn areas like Syria are at much greater risk of violence than the surrounding Muslim majority. Thousands of Yazidi are dead, largely because Western countries failed to recognize their special plight relative to other Muslims, which was a blind spot resulting primarily from social justice ideology. Similarly, most Western countries are shutting their doors to whites fleeing South African violence against them, again because of social justice ideology. And personally, I think the Arab-Israeli conflict has been drastically drawn out as a result of Western tampering that stems primarily from social justice ideology, although I'm sure many would argue that point. 

But you're right, the above results are nowhere near what was caused by Nazism and Communism. But remember that it took those ideologies getting into complete control of nations and implementing their agendas over a decade or more before the deaths by the millions began. Social justice ideology isn't there yet. There were those who could see through the evil of Nazism and Communism in advance, but they were ignored, as plenty of other people, among them many upstanding intellectuals of the day, thought that Nazism and Communism were great ideas, the cures to some or all of mankind's many problems. Today, social justice ideology is in the early stages, with some people (like myself) warning against its evils, but largely being ignored. History repeats itself.

I really hope I'm wrong on this one and you're right, I really do. 

 

[Zeitgeist]

21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nothing unique about them compared to any other special interest group....SJWs can take a number and get in line just like everyone else.

They can have all the abortions they want, but they can't force somebody else to perform them.

I think social justice has different connotations in the US.  In Canada it doesn’t necessarily mean supporting Planned Parenthood/Trudeau type abortion attitudes. In fact I don’t think of putting social justice and abortion rights in the same sentence, but that may be due to differences of context.  

Edited September 15, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think social justice has different connotations in the US.  In Canada it doesn’t necessarily mean supporting Planned Parenthood/Trudeau type abortion attitudes. In fact I don’t think of putting social justice and abortion rights in the same sentence, but that may be due to differences of context.  

 

Could be, but hard to discern.   Some of the SJW rhetoric coming out of Canada is just regurgitated from American media and social movements.