Endgame

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Bonam said:

1. It's early days yet for social justice ideology, unfortunately.

2. Many deaths have already come as an indirect result, as for example Western nations refuse to recognize that certain individuals in wartorn areas like Syria are at much greater risk of violence than the surrounding Muslim majority.  Thousands of Yazidi are dead, largely because Western countries failed to recognize their special plight relative to other Muslims, which was a blind spot resulting primarily from social justice ideology. Similarly, most Western countries are shutting their doors to whites fleeing South African violence against them, again because of social justice ideology. And personally, I think the Arab-Israeli conflict has been drastically drawn out as a result of Western tampering that stems primarily from social justice ideology, although I'm sure many would argue that point. 

3. But you're right, the above results are nowhere near what was caused by Nazism and Communism. But remember that it took those ideologies getting into complete control of nations and implementing their agendas over a decade or more before the deaths by the millions began.

4. Social justice ideology isn't there yet. 

5. Today, social justice ideology is in the early stages, with some people (like myself) warning against its evils, but largely being ignored. History repeats itself.

6. I really hope I'm wrong on this one and you're right, I really do. 

 

1.  Well, it depends on when you want to start counting.  Should you include tolerance of religions in Western democracy (18th century), banning of slavery (18th/19th century), universal sufferage, women's rights...Also when groups cease to suffer oppression then the ideology doesn't apply to them.  It seems like more of a framework at that point.

2. I haven't heard of this issue, and don't see how it's related to social justice.  Syria is a quagmire, though, and it's very difficult to isolate messages about ethnic groups from the concern over the situation as a whole.  The idea that social just ideology is making people fail to care about Yazidi seems farfetched to me, and would be tough to prove.  It would also be hard to associate blame to that ideology over more practical matters, like cold-war realities giving dictators in strategic areas an opportunity to commit atrocities, etc.

3. Thank you.

4. Pretty much any ideology in the hands of the wrong people can lead to atrocities.  It's kind of an analogue to the 'guns don't kill people' idea.

5. The fact that it has helped people, and vilified some pretty horrible and stupid ways at looking at other groups of people make it a success in the eyes of many.  This is why so many movie villains are tagged as straight-up racists.  That ideology has utterly failed in the marketplace of ideas.  There are always idealogues and self-rightous people who want to take things too far but those are ideas in themselves, and nothing to do with dictatorship or grabbing power.

6. To keep our freedoms, I'm convinced that we have to get back to a place where there is political trust.  We used to think there was distrust in government, and in politics, but it was nothing like today.  I have looked at history and trust can return, so it's possible.