Jimwd Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Putins busy using chemical weapons to attack people on alllied soil. Trump wants Russia back in the g7. The world knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 https://www.salon.com/2018/07/19/dan-coats-left-stunned-after-msnbc-host-tells-him-trump-invited-putin-to-the-white-house/ Intel Chief Dan Coats finds out on live TV that Putin is invited to the White House. It's pretty clear that only some kind of extreme event is going to stop this juggernaut of shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: https://www.salon.com/2018/07/19/dan-coats-left-stunned-after-msnbc-host-tells-him-trump-invited-putin-to-the-white-house/ Intel Chief Dan Coats finds out on live TV that Putin is invited to the White House. It's pretty clear that only some kind of extreme event is going to stop this juggernaut of shame. I suggest the tears of a million leftists might be enough to wash him way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: ....Intel Chief Dan Coats finds out on live TV that Putin is invited to the White House. It's pretty clear that only some kind of extreme event is going to stop this juggernaut of shame. What's the problem ? Justin Trudeau has visited the United States 16 times, and Freeland's minions even more, trying to influence U.S. trade policy. Why are some people so afraid of Putin getting chummy with the USA, but not afraid to be NATO deadbeats ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: https://www.salon.com/2018/07/19/dan-coats-left-stunned-after-msnbc-host-tells-him-trump-invited-putin-to-the-white-house/ Intel Chief Dan Coats finds out on live TV that Putin is invited to the White House. It's pretty clear that only some kind of extreme event is going to stop this juggernaut of shame. There we go with the fringe politics. Russia needs to rejoin the west. They desperately want to rejoin the west. There are enormous obstacle to rejoining the west. Trump is trying solve world problems whilst critics are trying to make more problem. The election medelling had a very small impact on our election because of the de-centralized nature of said election. Stop whining over a lost election. Start thinking about why you lost in the first place. Go back to grass root politics. Stop supporting a liberal globalist agenda that doesn't work for "deplorables". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Why are some people so afraid of Putin getting chummy with the USA, but not afraid to be NATO deadbeats ? Why fund NATO now that Russia and the US are so chummy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, eyeball said: Why fund NATO now that Russia and the US are so chummy? Just because I may smile and act nice to you, doesn't mean I am your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, eyeball said: Why fund NATO now that Russia and the US are so chummy? But they were NATO deadbeats before the US and Russia becoming chummy....or does cheap always apply no matter what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Just because I may smile and act nice to you, doesn't mean I am your friend. And it doesn't mean you're fearful if you're a bully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: But they were NATO deadbeats before the US and Russia becoming chummy....or does cheap always apply no matter what ? No, thrift does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 10:53 PM, OftenWrong said: Including the part where he gets praise and thanks for acquiring another $40B for NATO? What is NATO for again? Countering the Russian military threat. Why bother with that when he could do nothing, or even just the opposite? Because it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Trump can talk nice to his "competitors" all he wants. Would you trust him if he talked nice to you? What makes you think Trump had anything to do with NATO spending more money? You don't think that increasing Russian military aggression might have something to do with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/18/2018 at 11:02 PM, paxrom said: Service sector jobs are by definition non-trade-able industries. How would it affect us if you can't trade healthcare services, or blue collar jobs in the first place? Silicone Valley jobs are the same, they're service based. The US sells hundreds of billions in technical services to the world. Lots of foreign companies and governments purchase US equipment which requires technology updates and upgrades and servicing. Lots purchase technical know-how from the likes of IBM and Cisco and Microsoft. Lots purchase software which then requires a lot of continuing servicing from their manufacturers, be they Oracle or Adobe. You don't get a $265 billion trade surplus in services by not exporting services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) On 7/19/2018 at 12:00 AM, paxrom said: That article had one fundamental flawed, it stills believe in a globalized manufacturing supply chain. My argument is that since America's economy is not a manufacturing or export based then why would globalization matter. Our main industry is service based, non-tradable which don't benefit any from globalization How much does it cost to develop a complicated software package? Now how many units do you have to sell to make a profit? US software is sold around the world, and every unit sold outside the US is gravy, drawing money into the US. Much like Hollywood, which sells its movies around the world and often earns more from sales abroad than it does in the US. No foreign sales means way less profit means fewer jobs at lower wages. Edited July 20, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Argus said: The US sells hundreds of billions in technical services to the world. Lots of foreign companies and governments purchase US equipment which requires technology updates and upgrades and servicing. Lots purchase technical know-how from the likes of IBM and Cisco and Microsoft. Lots purchase software which then requires a lot of continuing servicing from their manufacturers, be they Oracle or Adobe. You don't get a $265 billion trade surplus in services by not exporting services. As i mentioned, trade (import-export) of goods and services including the ones you listed are only 25 percent of our gdp. Services like healthcare, legal services, blue collar work, are not trade-able. As for the tech industry yes some of those services can be traded but they typically are not part of the tariffs of steel and aluminum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 12:14 AM, paxrom said: Look we've already established that Trump is the siberian candidate. You're preaching to the choir. Only a genius like putin can be clever enough to place sanction on himself and his buddies while angering the rest of america with election meddling. Most of the sanctions put on Putin were put either before Trump was in office or by Congress, which he fought against. I don't know if Trump is owned by the Russians. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me, given how much financing he's gotten from Russian oligarchs over the years - once American banks stopped lending him any money. I'm fairly certain he'll eventually be convicted of money laundering, and helping them evade sanctions, and it's not at all unlikely that Putin has that kind of evidence. Quite aside form that Trump's career as a real estate guy has been one without any ethnical or moral restraints. He brags in his ghostwritten books about doing deals with organized crime figures to get work done faster and solve problems. If he thought Russia had hacked and cheated in the 2016 election on his behalf his most likely reaction would be pleasure and gratitude. And if he thought they were going to do it again in the coming election, his reaction would be no different. This would explain why he pretends to still not believe the Russians are doing anything. As long as he continues with that attitude federal agencies can't really organize a protective response which would provide the states with money and technical resources to harden their election systems. And again, that would not displease him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, paxrom said: As i mentioned, trade (import-export) of goods and services including the ones you listed are only 25 percent of our gdp. Services like healthcare, legal services, blue collar work, are not trade-able. As for the tech industry yes some of those services can be traded but they typically are not part of the tariffs of steel and aluminum... Do you have any idea what throwing a hammer into the works of something that is 25% of your GDP will do to your economy? And who cares if they're part of present tarrifs. Piss off the world by heavily taxing what they trade and they'll do the same to what you trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Argus said: Do you have any idea what throwing a hammer into the works of something that is 25% of your GDP will do to your economy? And who cares if they're part of present tarrifs. Piss off the world by heavily taxing what they trade and they'll do the same to what you trade. We've been pissing off the world and they seem desperate to reach a trade deal with us that we've been plenty fair on. Free, fair reciprocal trade. Sounds like the rest of the world has issues and not america. Our economy is doing stellar, how is everyone else? 25 percent of our economy is the world's economy, let that sink in... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 21 hours ago, paxrom said: There we go with the fringe politics. Russia needs to rejoin the west. They desperately want to rejoin the west. They do? I've seen zero indication of this. Putin is the guy who said the fall of the Soviet Union was the worst catastrophe of the 20th century. Ie, worse than WW2. He despises the West and its weakness and hedonism, and has made no secret of that whatsoever. 21 hours ago, paxrom said: The election medelling had a very small impact on our election because of the de-centralized nature of said election. Trump only won by a margin of something like 23,000 votes spread over four states. You don't need to hack or interfere with the election in most states or most districts because they're solidly red or blue. Only a handful of states and seats are purple and thus up for grabs each election, and the Russians are more than capable of focusing on these. Or do you think that while the State Department, the Pentagon, NSA and the CIA can be hacked, the incredible technical security of the Maryland election commission is impregnable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, paxrom said: .... Our economy is doing stellar, how is everyone else? 25 percent of our economy is the world's economy, let that sink in... This...never let them forget this, especially Canada, which depends on this more than any other nation in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, paxrom said: We've been pissing off the world and they seem desperate to reach a trade deal with us that we've been plenty fair on. Free, fair reciprocal trade. Of course they want a trade deal. They're led by people who pay attention to economists who are telling them trade is a great benefit to their economies. Trump has no time for economists. He goes by his 'gut'. But so far everyone has slapped counter sanctions on US exports to match the ones the US has applied, and they'll continue to do so. The idea that the US is the world's only fair trader is ludicrous. You guys apply plenty of tariffs on incoming goods and always have. Why do you think Canada negotiated free trade with the US to begin with if not to avoid the already existing US tariffs? And as I've pointed out several times now, Canada-US trade is already 99% tariff free. Also, the idea Trump wants a fair deal is preposterous. Never in his life has Trump sought a fair deal. Always, he seeks to screw people over. His company is famous for doing deals with other companies and then going back on those deals. It's famous for not paying suppliers, and then offering them lower amounts than were agreed to, and then being sued (successfully) for violating contracts. Trump has always been a shady dealer and a bully who abuses all those who do deal with him. That's why eventually, almost everyone else stopped doing deals with him, why American financiers and banks stopped lending his organization money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 37 minutes ago, Argus said: What makes you think Trump had anything to do with NATO spending more money? My links, in which NATO leaders give him direct credit. That is the only reason I think that.What makes you think he doesn't have anything to do with it? Quote You don't think that increasing Russian military aggression might have something to do with that? I do. I don't think anyone in NATO is Russia's friend, and I doubt that Trump is their friend either. Next up is another meeting with Trump and Putin, presumably this is an attempt to re-engage Russia in useful ways, but maybe not in all ways, as they are not to be trusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 minute ago, OftenWrong said: My links, in which NATO leaders give him direct credit. That is the only reason I think that.What makes you think he doesn't have anything to do with it? It's pretty easy to say something like that to make Trump happy. Remember that air conditioning company which told Trump they had changed their mind about closing a plant and shifting the workers to Mexico? He praised them, and then when he turned his head away they closed down and shifted jobs to Mexico anyway. Everyone knows Trump loves praise and has a short attention span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Argus said: It's pretty easy to say something like that to make Trump happy. There are two separate incidents in which Trump was credited by a NATO leader, one back in May 2018 and one now, recently. What you're saying is that these people are lying. If you have evidence (such as I've provided...) fine, I could accept that. Otherwise,it's just your unsubstantiated opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 20, 2018 Report Share Posted July 20, 2018 Pretty sure he substantiated it with the EXAMPLE he gave. Is flattery lying? Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted July 21, 2018 Report Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Pretty sure he substantiated it with the EXAMPLE he gave. You mean the example he gave about a completely different scenario/ different people/ different purpose? No problem, believe what you like. Disbelieve the words of other NATO leaders, if it makes you feel good. Fill your boots. Edited July 21, 2018 by OftenWrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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